Quantcast

2 shock, 4th generation prototype

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by Freddy Salgado, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. Freddy Salgado

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Rotorua, NZ
    This is my fourth generation 2-shock prototype, which I monster-garaged together.

    The first shock (the coil over) controls the small to medium hits, while the second shock (air shock) is set up for big G-outs.

    The design is a four-bar link within a four-bar link. It works like an old four-bar intense for small to medium hits but for bigger hits it acts like a high pivot bike.

    I raced this bike at the worlds in NZ in 2006 and am currently working on a fifth generation proto with Risse Racing. The next bike will be built from scratch and re-designed from the ground up.





     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. evolutionbike

    evolutionbike Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    3 / 0
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    260
    Location:
    Baltimore
    KHS Dominatrix?

    Mighty big ring on the front.

    How does it ride?
     
  3. Transcend

    Transcend My Nuts Are Flat

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    18,062
    Location:
    Towing the party line.
    Kevin was in NZ supporting you right? I think you are the guy he pointed out to me. I have been friends with Kevin for a very long time.
     
  4. Jase76

    Jase76 Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Australia
    WTF is it with Kiwis and Dual-shock bikes.

    It's great if it works out for you, but I think two shocks are an answer to a non-existent problem.
    They're exotic and interesting but ultimately pointless. There's more to be gained from innovation in other areas in my opinion.

    I'm happy to be proven wrong but I just don't see what the benefit is in having a whole other shock in there. Its just a whole lot more weight and suspension linkages.
     
  5. Cabdoctor

    Cabdoctor Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    194
    Location:
    Sacramento
    I'm super interested in the 4-bar linkage on a KHS Fetish frame! I got one of those lying around. Did you slacken the headtube and lower the BB? Where'd you get the 4-bar swing arm?
     
  6. Steve M

    Steve M Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 23
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,997
    Location:
    Whistler
    haha, typical kiwi madness. Nice work though, looks like a pretty clean design - was it a mongrel KHS or something originally? How's it ride?

    And that chainring is friggin enormous!
     
  7. Jonny5

    Jonny5 Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    Messages:
    503
    Looks like an old m1 or uzzi backend. pretty cool.
     
  8. 1453

    1453 Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    816
    Location:
    down the road from Pleasure Point
    huh, does look like a 99 M1 rear end. You can still see the reminent of what seems to be Intense stickers, and the 3-postition shock mount link.
     
  9. ?????

    ????? Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    1 / 2
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,701
    Location:
    San Francisco
    1999, is that you?
     
  10. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    29 / 280
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    9,421
    Location:
    Warsaw :/
    Looks like the 2shock bianchi...
     
  11. Internal14

    Internal14 Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2001
    Messages:
    488
    Location:
    N. of Vacaville, S. of Winters
    lost me at the mention of risky racing....
     
  12. boozy1976

    boozy1976 Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    world-euro-ger-bavaria-munich
  13. lovebunny

    lovebunny can i lick your balls?

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 19
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2003
    Messages:
    7,242
    Location:
    San Diego, California, United States
  14. ire

    ire Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    1 / 4
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    6,202
    :rofl:

    It looks like some of the frakenbikes from the late 90s
     
  15. ridiculous

    ridiculous Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 1
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,917
    Location:
    MD / NoVA
    im so confused. Dont you need to somewhat isolate each shock?
     
  16. Cabdoctor

    Cabdoctor Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    194
    Location:
    Sacramento
    Now you just cross the two shocks with a linkage like the Yeti 303 - 7 and...........


    On a more serious note. Whats the weight on the bike? And did you change the Geometry at all?
     
  17. cogs

    cogs Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    140
  18. no skid marks

    no skid marks Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    -6 / 25
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,522
    Location:
    ACT Australia
    Please post a picture of the non drive side.
    Would it work with the softer shock on the high pivot to absorb impacts of things the rear wheel rides into(most impacts),and the bottom out shock just for big hits(to flat etc).
     
  19. Freddy Salgado

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Rotorua, NZ
    Hey cabdocter get hold of Kevin at Risse Racing, 001 530 246 8700. He can pretty much whip up any linkage, rear ends, etc. Kevin is the man, we are currntly working on my next bike.
    My bike weight is 39.5, belive it or not. check out www.youtube.com/v/OUTspvKpjwY. Or try 4th gen 2 shock prototype. Hopefully should clear up a few things.
    Cheers
     
  20. Demomonkey

    Demomonkey Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    857
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    I tend to agree with your comments. I think for MTB its overkill. But at the same time I am reminded of the Porsche 959 Paris Dakar rally cars. These had dual dampers for exactly the same reasons as our Monkey here has. And these cars kicked butt big time, so there must be something to it.
     
  21. Freddy Salgado

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Rotorua, NZ
    Thanx for keeping an open mind. Definetly an area worth exploring(2 shock tech). Something extra in a positve way is going on with bump absorbtion. The next bike has been streamlined quite abit. You think 2 shocks is different wait to you see what its made from.
     
  22. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
    Staff Member

    Rep/Likes:
    68 / 832
    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,622
    Location:
    01776
     
  23. Freddy Salgado

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Rotorua, NZ
    I like beating dead horses. I noticed Corsair came out with 2 shock rear suspension bike, does anyone have feed back? This puts my count up to 7 bikes going down in history.
    This is the order of who came 1st, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
    Kestral: I think K dog bontrager had something to do with this bike.
    Alex Morgan: My 2 shock mentor, catalyst responsible for my juices flowing.
    Freddy Salgado: Insane sychopath that cant spell.
    Cannondale: whatever
    Karpiel Armagedeon: I think this was designed for Bender.
    2 Stage:
    Corsair:
    With the fine line between choosing spring rates for different tracks, having 2 shocks that you can adjust specifically for small to medium & big hits has merit.
    Did I forget any other 2 shock rear suspension bikes out there, if yes post a picture. If anything they sure are cool to look at.
     
  24. LMC

    LMC Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    683


    a ridiculous contraption if u ask me! theres one with 2 air shocks floating about too
     
  25. dh gangster

    dh gangster Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2006
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    P en Doubleyou
    please dont tell me thats a risse bigfoot.
    12 inches of inverted travel?
    i thought those didn't exist.




    no pun intended.
     
  26. jeremyb

    jeremyb Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2004
    Messages:
    135
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
  27. Windowlicker

    Windowlicker Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    Santa Cruz
    my buddies dad helped design the kestrel rubicon 2 shock frame yeaaaars ago
     
  28. Punter

    Punter Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Messages:
    54
    52. 71 PUR19680926 SALGADO MEDINA Alfred PUR 2:26.16 4:22.98 +1:11.95

    not quite on the podium but good man for getting out there.
    horrendous looking bike but once again, good work on getting out there
     
  29. Freddy Salgado

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Rotorua, NZ
    Thanx , coming out of retirement at 38 to race worlds isnt easy but couldnt pass up the opportunity. Cam and Sam could have ridden tricycles that day(2006 mtb worlds) and still smoked most the field, raw talent. Keep it pinned bro!
     
    #29 -   Jun 26, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2008
  30. MobileChernobyl

    Rep/Likes:
    2 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    394
    Location:
    Golden, CO
    Are you talking about LMC's post?

    Thats a Super Monster T, Risse Bigfoots exist as well, however theyre more of a "novelty" fork.
     
  31. Freddy Salgado

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Rotorua, NZ
    Kevin whipped out a 9" travel custom Risse Champ. These things are made by hand from the ground up. Between Kevin at Risse and Jude at Magura, they have kept my prototypes well dressed. These are the type of guys who are invaluable to us no name characters that pop out of nowhere at the norba nats.
     
  32. xy9ine

    xy9ine Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 123
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,710
    Location:
    vancouver eastside
    brent trimble?
     
  33. Freddy Salgado

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Rotorua, NZ
    wholy ****, thanx for making me feel old. I will crap my pants if this kid is related to brent, now we are talking history. Seriously when Kieth 1st hooked up with trek, he was making the rounds to dealers in the midwest. Naturaly I started talking about suspension and I remember Kieth saying something in regards to helping out with that bike, maybe I misunderstood?
    Either way before there was Brent there was Calfee, since you brought up carbon pioneers.
     
  34. xy9ine

    xy9ine Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 123
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,710
    Location:
    vancouver eastside
    i still have my trimble from ~'91. loved that thing (though it was a noodle). not really surprising i gravitated towards the lahar, i suppose.

     
  35. Freddy Salgado

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Rotorua, NZ
    are those mountain cycle suspender's? you must of had a really good job back then!
     
  36. xy9ine

    xy9ine Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 123
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,710
    Location:
    vancouver eastside
    actually was a shop rat going to uni. they cost me $700 (including hub & brake), which was still allot of coin back then. still, they were mediocre at best. the brake was pretty decent (compared to the cantis at the time), but the fork was elastomer sprung; they age hardened in short order. it now lives as a nostalgic reminder of the bad old days on my cruiser:



    am i derailing here? sorry...
     
  37. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
    Staff Member

    Rep/Likes:
    68 / 832
    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,622
    Location:
    01776
    kestrel was 1, I believe. the rubicon came out in 96 and was a really neat bike, though a little bit convoluted as suspension design wasn't really polished up yet. 7.6 inches of travel, xc weight. I still want one.
    Cannondale came out with their gemini in 1999 or 98. It was the first bike to really use split axle path design.
    BCD's 2x4 came out shortly thereafter, or around that time. I loved the design, but felt like it was set up wrong. the benefit of having dual axle paths really provided little benefit in this design, since it was essentially a concentric plus high pivot, so you gain very little over a high pivot design.
    Karpiel was soon after, but it wasn't a split axle path, it was just a dual shock. It basically allowed for extra bottom out travel on big hits, and that was it.
    The two stage followed soon after, and essentially replicated the 2x4 in a mass-produced style, plus used airshocks. They refuse to dignify any "axle area" (vs. path) and refer to their design as "platform" damping.
    The Sinister prototype should be included, even though it wasn't a dual shock bike. It allowed for an axle area, but also wasn't ideal because rearward travel was compromised with vertical travel. Ideally, the bike would be vertically and rearward compliant without compromising either when the other reached it's maximum. In other words, if you want maximum vertical compliance, you get little rearward travel, and vice versa.
    Lastly there's the Corsair, which is a neat design but is essentially just a novelty. If corsair can design/tune/market their bikes to utilize an axle area vs. path, the possibilities are very great. However, they market the bike as having an extra bottom-out shock, which essentially replicates the karpiel of old, and really brings the full-on DH racer absolutely NOTHING. I'm sorry, if you're to the point of running ti bolts and hollowing out linkages, are you really going to add an air shock? This bike is such a waste of time unless they revise the design slightly.

    I don't know where you fall in this picture, boss. I like your design, or at least your ability to think outside the box. I'd love to see you come up with a vertical/rearward travel (area path) dual shock bike. That could really push the spectrum and speeds, if done right.
     
  38. Freddy Salgado

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Rotorua, NZ
    I don't know where you fall in this picture, boss. I like your design, or at least your ability to think outside the box. I'd love to see you come up with a vertical/rearward travel (area path) dual shock bike. That could really push the spectrum and speeds, if done right.[/QUOTE]


    Wish I had 1 million $ to prove that theory. For the shear sake of creating the best dh tool possible. No marketing crap, just 20 top current pros and a venue where we can let em rip our bikes to test, let the riding speak for itself!
    Building next proto for worlds in Aus with kinda that in mind. Natural progression when influence comes from, Eric Buell, Mert, Alex. Inspiration comes from odd places!
     
    #38 -   Jun 26, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2008
  39. Windowlicker

    Windowlicker Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    Santa Cruz
    well i dont remember his first name or if i actually designed it but his last name is French, or atleast his sons lastname is French... I know he had something to do with Krestel. I am pretty sure he helped design it
     
  40. DHS

    DHS Friendly Neighborhood Pool Boy

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    5,101
    Location:
    Sand, CA
    Could this thread have more negative posts? why the pink bike kids coming over here.

    Sorry this guy isn't mainstream. sure his parts aren't all matching. give the guy a break.

    i like the design with minimal money spent. keep up the good work.

    Freddy's design is different then all the other pictures posted. could you guys actually look at his setup first, and think before posting.