[Roasted]

Just b/c you don't like single pivot bikes does not make them bad. Single pivot bikes can be tuned by mfgrs to suit the characteristics they need. The Kumicho is designed to feel as good (if not better) than an SGS-DH. That was one of the design requirements from the start for the bike! Overall the Kumicho frame is lighter and stiffer than an SGS while also being cheaper and easier to produce. If you compare a Kumicho spec to spec with an 04 SGS-DH Pro you are not really losing a lot in spec but the bike will retail for $400 less, even with the increased price of materials and parts!

-ska todd

I realize not all single pivots are created equal. I have just grown really attached to fsr. I use it for xc (really slow xc), hike a bikes and dh. For me the fsr was the most versatile design in my price range. Seeing it gone and replaced with a single pivot (or multi pivots with more $$$$) with a floating brake just seems off. I am definately not e-judging it. I will take a look at them if and when I need a bike. I just personally prefer the way fsr felt over the single pivots I have ridden. I would have to find someone with one and put some time on it on the various trails I ride around town.

For now I hope to get more life out of my bighit so I can avoid the current trend of $$$$$. Thank god I only fit extra larges. Shops always seem to have those lying around from years past cause no one fits them haha

Cheers :beer:

 

[dhtahoe]

ackkk...so much for the budget minded rider/racer

5k retail is a good deal I think. Considering a good DH frame is 3k these days.

 

[kidwoo]

a good DH frame is 3k these days.

And that ain't right neither!!!

 

[biggins]

There are some frame kits still available. We ordered some extras b/c we were well aware that there would be a gap in the market between 04 & 05 product.

Also, don't count out the Kumicho bike. While a singlepivot bike w/ a floater it quite the capable bike. Look at all the riders out there who slay it on a singlepivot bike (Peaty, Cedric, etc).



Just b/c you don't like single pivot bikes does not make them bad. Single pivot bikes can be tuned by mfgrs to suit the characteristics they need. The Kumicho is designed to feel as good (if not better) than an SGS-DH. That was one of the design requirements from the start for the bike! Overall the Kumicho frame is lighter and stiffer than an SGS while also being cheaper and easier to produce. If you compare a Kumicho spec to spec with an 04 SGS-DH Pro you are not really losing a lot in spec but the bike will retail for $400 less, even with the increased price of materials and parts!

-ska todd

the kumicho? is it on your website?

 

[dante]

the kumicho? is it on your website?

Yakuza Kumicho

and this one

 

[Acadian]

And that ain't right neither!!!

but you own one... :nuts:

 

[The Kadvang]

Definitely in US dollars. However, it's a Russian company, so the prices may be different due to foreign taxes and import fees, etc.

Sunday Team: $3636

Sunday World Cup: $4786

Wow... look what I started. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[kidwoo]

but you own one... :nuts:

I don't be ownin' no 3000 dolla bicycle frame!!!! That's plum whacked!! Now get your smiley foot outa my nuts!!

 

[zedro]

actually the Yakuza Kumicho looks pretty nice...nicer than the name at least

and much nicer than a nasty Bullit :nuts:

 

[haggis]

DH bikes may well have reached an all time high in price but only because there's a demand. The more we, as riders, try to make up for shortcomings in skills by riding swanky bikes, the greater the divide between the likes of BMXers (who incidently, rarely spend $250 on their rides) and us big bike riders... Lets not get carried away with the technology - Some of the best riders in our sport may well be the unsung hardtail riders.

 

[zedro]

DH bikes may well have reached an all time high in price but only because there's a demand. The more we, as riders, try to make up for shortcomings in skills by riding swanky bikes, the greater the divide between the likes of BMXers (who incidently, rarely spend $250 on their rides) and us big bike riders... Lets not get carried away with the technology - Some of the best riders in our sport may well be the unsung hardtail riders.

i hate this argument. Ya sure i could probably ride at 90% of the speed on a hardtail at 10% of the cost...but you know, i like a nice cushy plush ride so i dont have to work as hard trying to go faster for longer periods of time. Theres only so long i can spaz-out on a HT on the DH trails.

Plus i just love the machine...

 

[haggis]

But it's only about the speed if you're a DH racer - The white-knuckle ride of a hardtail (albeit at slower speeds) can't be knocked. I think we can't complain about the prices unless the sub one grand market suffers as a result. And of course, most of the new high tech bike technology trickles down after a year or two so we all get a bite of that performance apple if we be patient... Or get a sponsorship deal.

 

[zedro]

But it's only about the speed if you're a DH racer - The white-knuckle ride of a hardtail (albeit at slower speeds) can't be knocked. .

dont get me wrong, i enjoy breaking out the HT once in a blue moon, mostly because it forces you to ride the trails differently. But it does take a toll endurance wise.

Its kinda like go-carting, super fun, super wippy, but very demanding in the long run. After a hard session, nice suspension and power steering feel real nice again for the majority of the time.

 

[haggis]

Yeah - I'm gettin older too!!

 

[CBJ]

Not to turn this into a HT vs DH fully thread but my personal experience is that DH is much safter on a DH bike - as the DH bike will help correct mistakes and suprises on the trail. That they are both fun is another story.

Back to pricing - are the prices that high than they have been before? To me they look very normal and with technology improving every year you get more an more for your dollar or Euro.

 

[biggins]

what kind of travel does that bike have? and how much for a frame? and when can i get one?

 

[binary visions]

what kind of travel does that bike have? and how much for a frame? and when can i get one?

More info about the Yakuza lineup:

http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/news/?op=articleview&id=2204

 

[biggins]

binary, again you rule. i want that bike how much was it again? i dont feel like reading throough this whole thing to find it. also is it available yet?

 

[binary visions]

binary, again you rule. i want that bike how much was it again? i dont feel like reading throough this whole thing to find it. also is it available yet?

I can't believe I'm catering to your laziness:

If you want budget then I'd steer towards a Yakuza Kumicho at the $2000 range.

They'll probably all be released soon after Interbike, right Todd?

 

[ska todd]

Biggins...please use the search button. It is a very useful feature.

The Kumicho is planned for release approx Nov.

The pricing will be approx $2k. There are no plans for a frame only.

-ska todd

 

[biggins]

Biggins...please use the search button. It is a very useful feature.

The Kumicho is planned for release approx Nov.

The pricing will be approx $2k. There are no plans for a frame only.

-ska todd

dayum dont getmean. lol.

cool. is this something that you expect customers will need to try to order in advance?

 

[ska todd]

cool. is this something that you expect customers will need to try to order in advance?

Yes & no...if you plan to be the first kid on the block with one you may want to have your dealer place an immediate order. Otherwise, there should be enough to keep everyone happy.

-ska todd

 

[biggins]

cool. also just wanted to let you know todd, our local IH dealer run by allan hightower in black mountain, nc a shop called Epic Cycles is awesome. i'll try to get in touch with him asap about placing anorder. ill need to sell some bikes first though.

 

[Hans]

Hey Todd, any news on european distribution?

 

[ska todd]

cool. also just wanted to let you know todd, our local IH dealer run by allan hightower in black mountain, nc a shop called Epic Cycles is awesome. i'll try to get in touch with him asap about placing anorder. ill need to sell some bikes first though.

I know Allen well. We go back a while when he used to work for Sun-Ringle.

Hey Todd, any news on european distribution?

I'll check w/ the sales dept and PM you with the info.

-ska todd

 

[Hans]

I'll check w/ the sales dept and PM you with the info.

-ska todd

Sweet, how's this PM thing work, I'm a horrendous spaz with these things!

 

[stiksandstones]

What does Yakuza Kumicho mean?
Just Curious...I am seriously wondering, not trying to be a smartass either.
Thanks
Stik

 

[-BB-]

What does Yakuza Kumicho mean?
Just Curious...I am seriously wondering, not trying to be a smartass either.
Thanks
Stik

Kumicho*-(the head of a family, Father)
Yakuza - Gang

Gang Leader or Godfather... something like that I assume

 

[stiksandstones]

Gotcha, thanks.

 

[ska todd]

What does Yakuza Kumicho mean?

The Kumicho is the "Supreme Boss" of a Yakuza clan. Sorta like the Godfather.

-ska todd

 

[zedro]

The Kumicho is the "Supreme Boss" of a Yakuza clan. Sorta like the Godfather.

-ska todd

my family was killed by the Yakuzas. I'm offended :mumble:

 

[dante]

my family was killed by the Yakuzas. I'm offended :mumble:

what a coincidence. was going to be called the "Fluffy Bunny" line, but we didn't want to offend the millions that are killed and maimed by these deadly creatures each year. they're not called "The Crocadile of the Forrest" for nothing, you know... So decided to go with Japanese gangsters instead.

 

[binary visions]

was going to be called the "Fluffy Bunny" line, but we didn't want to offend the millions that are killed and maimed by these deadly creatures each year.

"Behind the rabbit?"

"It is the rabbit..."

"You silly sod."

"What?"

"You got us all worked up."

"That is not an ordinary rabbit! 'tis the most foul, cruel and bad tempered thing you ever set eyes on!"

"You tit. I soiled my armor I was so scared."

 

[Dogboy]

"Behind the rabbit?"

"It is the rabbit..."

"You silly sod."

"What?"

"You got us all worked up."

"That is not an ordinary rabbit! 'tis the most foul, cruel and bad tempered thing you ever set eyes on!"

"You tit. I soiled my armor I was so scared."

LOL, I was watching that last night.

 

[Jm_]

with big sharp teeth and nasty claws "ffffftthhh" "fffffftthhhh"

 

[Greyhound]

De-railed.




......but funny.

 

[erikkellison]

So I can't help but notice on that Yakuza Kumicho that the seatpost looks too low in the profile picture. It looks as though the edge of the seatpost is settle between two coils in the spring. That aside though, being a single pivot, it doesn't look like there's a lot of clearance on the top half of the shock to cycle through all the travle (all 8"??).
Where is the pivot located on that Yakuza? It looks down and back when compared to most other single pivots (high and forward)... doesn't that result in poorer quality travel (can't remember specifically what is affected by that, maybe pedaling efficiency or brake jack?)?
Oh, and I'm a bit confused as to how that's better than a Bullit? Both single pivot, similar travel, same shock, tack a floater on a Bullit, plus the tried and true relaibility of the Bullit, who knows what the quality of the pivot/bearings is like on the Yakuza, and the unridden Yakuza is better? I hope you were kidding Zedro

 

[binary visions]

It looks as though the edge of the seatpost is settle between two coils in the spring. That aside though, being a single pivot, it doesn't look like there's a lot of clearance on the top half of the shock to cycle through all the travle (all 8"??).

Come on now... Iron Horse is an up and coming company in the competitive bike market. I don't think they are going to risk their reputation on such a glaring oversight.

They're revamping their entire line this year and the new models are pricey. They're probably worth it, but the fact is they have a lot of people to convince.

Where is the pivot located on that Yakuza? It looks down and back when compared to most other single pivots (high and forward)... doesn't that result in poorer quality travel (can't remember specifically what is affected by that, maybe pedaling efficiency or brake jack?)?

You mean, like a Turner DHR, one of the most popular race bikes on the planet?

Pedalling efficiency and brake jack are both two traits that are improved by locating the pivot that far back and down.

Oh, and I'm a bit confused as to how that's better than a Bullit? Both single pivot, similar travel, same shock

Except for the fact that the pivot is a mile away from the Bullit's pivot, which will result in a completely different ride, and the geometry is different from the Bullit, and it's got an inch more travel, and a 1.5 headtube... Actually, come to think of it, it's not similar to a Bullit.

Regardless, what Zedro said was that it looked nicer than a Bullit. Aesthetics.

 

[erikkellison]

Come on now... Iron Horse is an up and coming company in the competitive bike market. I don't think they are going to risk their reputation on such a glaring oversight.

BV,
Don't be so defensive, yo. I was raising issues about things I didn't understand. I didn't say that the bike wouldn't be able to cycle through the travel, just that it looked close. And it still looks like the seatpost is dropped down between two coils of the spring.

You mean, like a Turner DHR, one of the most popular race bikes on the planet?

I think the DHR is different because it compresses the shock differenty, so is comparing a true single pivot to a DHR really an even comparision? I was referring to overall performance, not just wheelpath.

Pedalling efficiency and brake jack are both two traits that are improved by locating the pivot that far back and down.

So why is the pivot located so high and forward on most other single pivot bikes? Surely there must be a good reason, otherwise with bikes such as an Orange 223 would move it down and back (which is, coincidently, a true single pivot WC race frame, unlike the DHR). It does make sense to me that a pivot located closer to the BB would be better for less pedal feedback. However, it still doesn't make sense to me how a pivot closer to the BB would be better for efficiency. I also tried to conceptualize why brake jack would change, but couldn't come up with anything concrete as to why pivot location would matter all that much. If anyone wants to shed some light on these, I would really appreciate it.
To clarify in advance for those who will misread what I wrote, I simply stated above that the DHR is not a true single pivot frame. It is obviously a WC race frame, so obvious that I wouldn't have included this disclaimer if it weren't for the odds being in favor of SOMEONE misreading what I wrote and calling me an stupid a-hole for insulting a DHR (which, to make it painfully clear, I never did).

Except for the fact that the pivot is a mile away from the Bullit's pivot, which will result in a completely different ride, and the geometry is different from the Bullit, and it's got an inch more travel, and a 1.5 headtube... Actually, come to think of it, it's not similar to a Bullit.
Regardless, what Zedro said was that it looked nicer than a Bullit. Aesthetics.

Okay, I missed the aesthetics flavor of his comment. But all things considered, they're still single pivot freeride bikes, which is a small sub-category of all bikes. I should have clarified that I was speaking with regards to all bikes, and not just within the subcategory of single pivot freeride bikes. They're similar to me because I would use them for the same purpose.

 

[erikkellison]

Okay, so I figured out how a more forward pivot (longer disc brake mount - pivot length) can adversely affect braking in the rear (brake jack - the longer the length, the more leverage the brake can apply, and the more jacked the rear suspension is, or do I have that completely backwards, and it's the fact that the further you get from the pivot, the less force the disc brake assembly can apply rotationally to the pivot... because if the brake was centered around the pivot, applying rotational force to the pivot would be a direct transfer, and very effective, so the longer the disc brake mount - pivot length is, the less brake jack there is? Arghh.), but I still don't understand how a more rearward pivot location can have better pedaling efficiency. Anyone care to point me in the right direction?