[johnbryanpeters]

how stereotypical is it to be pro-gun and ex military / law enforcement

One does not have to be pro- or anti-. Believe it or not, there is room for a moderate stance on this issue.

It's also not a good idea to stereotype the military or police. Recognize and deal with individuals; groups are not people.

 

[jimmydean]

how stereotypical is it to be pro-gun and ex military / law enforcement

I served in an Infantry unit. I also shot Expert, but that was expected. I wouldn't mind a gun, but I don't feel it's a need.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I served in an Infantry unit. I also shot Expert, but that was expected. I wouldn't mind a gun, but I don't feel it's a need.

Well said.

 

[sanjuro]

No it wasn't, but I still hold that it might not be unreasonable with adequate training.

Well, you could poke your eye with a fork if you don't know how to use it right.

And while I don't own a gun, I do know about the waste cases at gun shows...

 

[JohnE]

Anyone who has to let his kid finger diddle an Uzi at a gun show is simply looking for stories to tell around the fir, back at the trailer. Now he has one.

 

[ohio]

Haha, you're one to talk.

As:
- a US Army combat arms veteran. (That means someone who is trained to fight on the front lines for a living, in case you didn't know.)
- Awarded the "Expert Marksman" title in both rifle, pistol and hand grenade usage.
- Someone who used to be in law enforcement.
- Someone with immediate family in law enforcement now.
- Someone who has taken rediculous numbers of "safety courses" in Kalifornia just to be able to legally carry a concealed weapon.
- Someone who has been hunting his whole life, and has the utmost respect for living things, as opposed to those who eat the meat of creatures they will never know from the supermarket.

All those qualifications and you still needed to invoke the 1800s to make a case for why kids should be allowed to handle guns, when they are already allowed to handle guns. I don't need to qualify my opinion, because I didn't present one. I presented facts.

This is all aside from the fact that you still don't know what my opinion is. I may not even have one. I just like ****ing with you.

 

[ohio]

In a duel I'll take the single-shot bolt gun anyday; the other guy can't have one of the evil-black "assault rifles" Feinswine and Shoxer are so hysterical about. As the Marines say, "One shot one kill."

Step back, everyone. Chest-puffing in progress.

 

[MMike]

Step back, everyone. Chest-puffing in progress.

I'm so turned on right now......

 

[ohio]

The real question is, would he use a weaver stance?

 

[MMike]

The real question is, would he use a weaver stance?

He had me at "one shot"

 

[BurlyShirley]

- a US Army combat arms veteran. (That means someone who is trained to fight on the front lines for a living, in case you didn't know.)

"in case you didn't know"

 

[1000-Oaks]

Big fan of prone actually.

Particularly if it involves a 5'8", 105 lb blonde with an itch to scratch. (female, for the record and the wannabe clever)

:biggrin:

 

[1000-Oaks]

Step back, everyone. Chest-puffing in progress.

Army doesn't pay much, it's all we've got. That and lame haircuts.

 

[JohnE]

And tanks. You forgot to mention tanks. Armor is cool.

 

[1000-Oaks]

And tanks. You forgot to mention tanks. Armor is cool.

19D Cavalry Scout. Tankers always told us to "move out and draw fire", lol.

http://www.cavhooah.com/cavalry_scout.htm

The "crave danger" bit is hillarious, historically 19D's have an average lifespan of less than thirty seconds after contact with the enemy. (not including Iraq stats) Whoever sees the other guy first wins, basically.

 

[JohnE]

Ahhh, tread butter...

 

[Westy]

A .22 rifle is easily handled by an 8 year old.


Ariz. boy, 8, accused of killing 2, including dad

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081108/ap_on_re_us/child_charged;_ylt=Amx6exeRKaSFaiTUeCUnTLEb.3QA

 

[$tinkle]

some would say that teaching a kid that young to shoot is a form of child abuse. in which case, he should be acquitted

every time i read your sig at first i see "excrement", not "excitement".

 

[Straya]

"Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone 8 or older"

"police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult"



This is not right.

 

[JohnE]

Sounds like they think the kid was abused. This is just what Az needs now that they are not planning an inauguration...

 

[Samirol]

"Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone 8 or older"

"police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult"



This is not right.

It is pretty insane, there are a lot of laws where people as young as 12 can be tried as an adult if they have gang colors.

 

[Westy]

every time i read your sig at first i see "excrement", not "excitement".

For me, it is the same thing anyway.

Nothing wrong with giving an 8 year old gun training. Giving an 8 year old easy access to a gun not so much. Of course we don't know what kind of access this kid had.

 

[MikeD]

Hey, at least that story puts an end to the "stopping power" debate in the F&MC forum...

 

[laura]

I wonder what it feels like to watch your son shoot himself in the head.

 

[ironspoke]

I know! Like the tragic outcome of the freak gasoline fight accident in Zoolander!

I forgot about that scene!!!!!!!! I have to put it in the queue. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Silver]

I wonder what it feels like to watch your son shoot himself in the head.

Glorious joy knowing that he is with Jesus in heaven, shooting an Uzi that never runs out of bullets.

 

[kidwoo]

I wonder what it feels like to watch your son shoot himself in the head.

Or what it feels like to get a call from your husband with that information.

 

[I Are Baboon]

I wonder what it feels like to watch your son shoot himself in the head.

The guy was probably all like, "Damn."

 

[dante]

Or what it feels like to get a call from your husband with that information.

either that, or having to call your wife and tell her that you just allowed little johnny to shoot himself in the head.

ummmm, hi, honey, have i told you how beautiful you look today?

 

[Defenestrated]

the world probably lost a future serial killer anyway

 

[drkenan]

Glorious joy knowing that he is with Jesus in heaven, shooting an Uzi that never runs out of bullets.

omg that's so wrong...but so funny at the same time.

 

[Defenestrated]

Glorious joy knowing that he is with Jesus in heaven, shooting an Uzi that never runs out of bullets, into his head.

fixed

 

[kidwoo]

either that, or having to call your wife and tell her that you just allowed little johnny to shoot himself in the head.

I'd just punch her in the face and ask why she wanted to take away america's right to defend itself.

 

[JohnE]

Guy prolly got out of some child support payments...

 

[$tinkle]

still cheaper than the pending civil suit.

that's going to make for a very uncomfortable funeral. can you imagine?

mom: "wtf are you crying for?"

he can only hope for something like this

 

[sanjuro]

I like how a doctor and a police chief are going down for this:

Police Chief Among 4 Indicted in Boy’s Death at Gun Show
By KATIE ZEZIMA

BOSTON — A Massachusetts police chief, two Connecticut men and a gun club were indicted Thursday in the case of an 8-year-old boy killed by a submachine gun he was firing at a gun show.

The boy, Christopher K. Bizilj of Ashford, Conn., accidentally shot himself in the head while taking his turn with a 9-millimeter Micro Uzi on Oct. 26 in Westfield, Mass. He was accompanied by his father, an emergency room doctor, who, the authorities say, had chosen the Uzi for him to fire.

Massachusetts law generally makes it legal for children to fire a weapon if they have parental consent and are supervised by a certified instructor. But that does not apply to machine guns, which may not be fired by anyone under 18.

“There is no exception that would allow a machine gun to be furnished to an 8-year-old, with or without parental consent,” said William M. Bennett, the Hampden County district attorney, who obtained the indictments from a grand jury.

The accident occurred at the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo, held at the Westfield Sportsman’s Club. The show was sponsored by COP Firearms and Training, which is owned by Edward B. Fleury, the police chief in Pelham, a western Massachusetts town of some 1,400 people about 30 miles from Westfield.

Mr. Fleury, 51, who has been on sick leave since the accident, is charged with involuntary manslaughter, as are the Westfield club and the two men who the authorities say supplied the Uzi: Domenico Spano of New Milford, Conn., and Carl Guiffre of Hartford.

In addition, Mr. Fleury and the club were each indicted on four counts of furnishing a machine gun to a person under 18. Prosecutors said they knew of at least three children other than Christopher who fired automatic weapons at the show.

Conviction on the manslaughter charges carries punishment of up to 20 years in prison, and on the weapons charges up to 10 years on each count.

Christopher’s father, Charles Bizilj, will not be charged, the authorities said.

“The father,” Mr. Bennett said, “will be punished every day for the rest of his life for what happened.”

The Associated Press quoted Mr. Bennett as saying Mr. Fleury had wrongly assured Mr. Guiffre and Mr. Spano that it was legal for children to fire the Uzi under Massachusetts law.

A woman who identified herself on the telephone as Mr. Fleury’s daughter said he was ill and unavailable for comment.

His lawyer, Charles F. Ksieniewicz, said he and Mr. Fleury were “disappointed” by the indictment, but declined to comment further.

Mr. Spano did not return a message left at his home. Nor did Mr. Guiffre, whom public records list as vice president of Provost’s Precision Pistols in Weatogue, Conn., and former assistant treasurer of the Metacon Gun Club in Simsbury, Conn.

Calls to the Westfield club were not returned.

At a news conference where he announced the charges, Mr. Bennett said Dr. Bizilj (pronounced bah-SEEL) had chosen the Micro Uzi for Christopher to shoot because it was small and, the father thought, would therefore be easier to handle.

“He did not realize its small size actually made it more dangerous,” Mr. Bennett said, adding, “Although it might appear a heavier or longer weapon would be more dangerous, the small size of the weapon together with the rapid rate of fire made it more likely that an 8-year-old would lose control and the muzzle of the weapon would come close to his face, which is what happened here.”

As he fired, Mr. Bennett told The A.P., Christopher was supervised only by a 15-year-old.

Massachusetts already has some of the nation’s strictest gun laws, but Christopher’s death has brought a call for tighter regulation, including that at gun shows, which fall under the jurisdiction of local law enforcement.

Terrel Harris, a spokesman for the state public safety secretary, Kevin Burke, said the department had been “working on seeing what statutes and regulations we might be able to tighten and strengthen,” specifically involving “machine guns, juveniles in possession of guns, and gun clubs.”

Looks like FAIL all the way.

 

[ohio]

I like how a doctor and a police chief are going down for this:

Doc's not going down. Doc is the father... his punishment is living with himself.

But yeah, the chief and the booth owners are getting the book. Deserved all around. I'm all for learning how to be safe and responsible with firearms from a young age, especially in a household that HAS firearms, but I have no idea where FIRING auto or semi-auto weapons would ever fit into that education process.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

He was accompanied by his father, an emergency room doctor, who, the authorities say, had chosen the Uzi for him to fire.

You would think that an emergency room doctor would have enough experience with bullet wounds to not place his 8 year old at risk.

I am baffled at the lack of common sense that some highly educated people have.

 

[DaveW]

You would think that an emergency room doctor would have enough experience with bullet wounds to not place his 8 year old at risk.

I am baffled at the lack of common sense that some highly educated people have.

Knowing about dealing with the results of gunshot wounds and knowing about firing a weapon like an Uzi yourself are two totally different things. *shrugs*

Yep that Doc has to live with himself (and his partners reactions) for the rest of his life, so he is going to be suffering for a loooong time.
The range instructor I think carry's the majority of the blame for this.
Why did he allow a small child to use a weapon of that size?
Why was the child not properly supervised when firing it?

 

[MMike]

Apparently this trial is going on now.....

I watched the vdeo on CNN. Not that I know anything about uzis. But the gun was jamming and doing weird stuff.....