[big-ted]

Right, I'm done with my Boxxer. I've said it before, but this time I mean it. Snapped my third stanchion in a year. (Not snapped as such, but the retaining circlip that keeps the rebound cartridge in check has cracked off the bottom, dumping the cartridge into the lowers), and it's leaking oil from the MoCo cartridge again, despite having the "revised" design fitted by Sram at the beginning of last season.

I want to get a 888 as I don't trust the thin castings of the 40 so, some questions:

How do people find the "combined" high and low speed adjustment of the RC3 compression cartridge? This seems like a complete cop-out to me. The whole point of having separate high and low speed compression circuits is that they can be tuned independently. Is this possible from inside the fork?

I don't care one bit for the shiny silver stanchions, and I pride myself on being well aware that there are more important things in life than a few grammes, but I realise I will be going from one of the lightest DH forks out there (Boxxer Team) to one of the heaviest (888RC3). To this end, are the Ti springs from the WC available separately? Marzocchi lists them, but are they actually AVAILABLE? Any idea of cost?

Anyone have any reports on the long term reliability of the 2008 888 ATA? I know last years had it's problems, but they're sorted for this year, right?!

I know the 2008 Marzocchi's have had some bushing issues. Rest assured, if this turns out to be the case with my fork, it'll be going straight back. This doesn't bother me. It's what warranties are for.

The brake mount is a 74mm post mount, correct?

How does the damping circuit compare to the Boxxer? I quite like the feel of my boxxer, though it definitely lacked suppleness at high speed. I know some people describe the 888 as a "wallowy" or "dead" feeling fork?

K guys, hopefully this doesn't come across as another "what fork" post. I've tried to be specific. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

Ted

 

[bullcrew]

The 66 rc3 is smokin easy and works flawless as far as adjustment compared to last years rc2x. I also have the 888 wcata rc3 and it again rocks, thers been some beef as to the bushing play but to what Ive been told it was mainly the first shipments that went out.
I have been beating the *bleep* out of both the 66 rc3 qand the 888 ata wc and no issues, I also have several other friendss riding the 888 ata wc with no issues as i have freinds riding the 66 rc3;s no problems.

The main issue seems to be bushing play, if its all over send it in and they will replace it. Then there was 1 issue of someone casing the lowers into something and denting them effecting the bushings internally!
It happens, i scratched a stanchion finally 3 weeks ago and the 66 was puking oil, got it fixed no more problem. I have dumped my forks several times and just never managed to scratch stanchions till now.

They are real supple over small bumps on par with my fox 40rc2, and they take one hell of a slam down like my 888 rc2x wc did! I had some bushing slop on my 66 but it was fixed and no issues since (turned out to be first run production), the new bvushings have seen Big Bear 3 times 9 runs each and countless slams and hard hits.
I think you would be happy, they are still a great product and this years air have a bigger par chamber so the mod isnt needed. It gets all of its travel as well as wont wind down (knob has been redesigned to prevent this as well).

 

[big-ted]

Hmm, others a reporting real world wights of the 2008 RC3 at nearly 8.5lbs. The one I felt today didn't feel that heavy, but damn...

 

[bullcrew]

the rc3 is 8.1, the rc3 wc is 7.5, the atawc is 6.96, the 66 rc3 is 6.98 (with nickle stanchions its 6.6 I had some put on!)
The weights on the USA Marz site are almost exactly 1/2 lb off.
The weights I listed are first hand exeprience weighing them at Marzocchi several weeks ago and the 888 weights DO NOT INCLUDE STEM! They DO include full length steer and axle.

Whatever the site says add 1/2 lb and thats about spot on.

 

[William42]

bushing slop, poorly made lowers (axle came loose), rebound didn't work. I had to pay shipping one way.

I will not be buying marz products ever again - out of the 4 times i've tried to contact them and get my problems solved and only got one chill person, everybody else treated me like I was an ass for having a crappy fork.

The damping is a cop out. I'm not sure about adjusting it internally, I'd be interested to see about that, but I like to run alot of LSC and low HSC. To run enough compression to not get god awful brake dive the fork gets really harsh, and after lots of playing with oil weights and heights I've concluded its probably impossible to tune it to the point where I want it. Its a great hucker fork, don't get me wrong, its very easy to make it super progressive, but making it linear with some LSC just doesn't work.

So, aside from not being tunable to where I want it (similarly with my shock, but i'll probably end up sending it to push), and getting crappy quality with my fork, as well as CS that treats me like dirt, I'm pretty convinced I should never ever give marz my money.

except for their 5.10 shoes, just got a pair of those, and they're pretty bomb.

 

[caputo1989]

I weighed my RC3 WC today uncut with the marzocchi stem and axel. in at 8lbs. No biggie because it (insert Zurchcies voice here) feels so super good. Pictures soon to come.

 

[caputo1989]

bushing slop, poorly made lowers (axle came loose), rebound didn't work. I had to pay shipping one way.

I will not be buying marz products ever again - out of the 4 times i've tried to contact them and get my problems solved and only got one chill person, everybody else treated me like I was an ass for having a crappy fork.

The damping is a cop out. I'm not sure about adjusting it internally, I'd be interested to see about that, but I like to run alot of LSC and low HSC. To run enough compression to not get god awful brake dive the fork gets really harsh, and after lots of playing with oil weights and heights I've concluded its probably impossible to tune it to the point where I want it. Its a great hucker fork, don't get me wrong, its very easy to make it super progressive, but making it linear with some LSC just doesn't work.

So, aside from not being tunable to where I want it (similarly with my shock, but i'll probably end up sending it to push), and getting crappy quality with my fork, as well as CS that treats me like dirt, I'm pretty convinced I should never ever give marz my money.

except for their 5.10 shoes, just got a pair of those, and they're pretty bomb.

Mabye try the RC3 air chamber thing in the bottom.

 

[bullcrew]

I dont know why some peeps have issues, I know mine have been great as well as my buddies. It had to be a first run situation, I know I had my lowers on my 66rc3 swapped to white ones with the stepped washer insert and had nickle stanchions added!

Ha! It will be a 66 rc3 WC as soon as I get a ti spring for it! (prob just dice a 888 wc spring and have it re wound at bottom perch!)

In no way am i discrediting anyone who has or is having issues, I am only speaking from my personal experience and I do believe there have been some issues but what fork or fork co. hasnt had problems. My dealings with CS have been great and I have always been treated fairly and promptly as well.

 

[Kanye West]

The damping is a cop out. I'm not sure about adjusting it internally, I'd be interested to see about that, but I like to run alot of LSC and low HSC. To run enough compression to not get god awful brake dive the fork gets really harsh, and after lots of playing with oil weights and heights I've concluded its probably impossible to tune it to the point where I want it. Its a great hucker fork, don't get me wrong, its very easy to make it super progressive, but making it linear with some LSC just doesn't work.

Oh it's very possible. The RC3 damper is pretty badass actually. You just have to know how it works and have a bit of prior experience with that sorta stuff. You should feel mine....

 

[big-ted]

Oh it's very possible. The RC3 damper is pretty badass actually. You just have to know how it works and have a bit of prior experience with that sorta stuff. You should feel mine....

Care to share what you did?

I really don't want to have to band-aid this thing together until the new Boxxer comes out, and even then I'm not going to jump on it after all the Totem problems that went down. I could expand my search to include the Travis, or I could just put my crack-pipe down right now...


Someone PLEASE make a reliable, well damped DH fork at around 7lb weight, and with no bigger than 36mm stanchions. PLEASE!

 

[bullcrew]

Just do the 888 ATA WC and be done with it! Super adjustable, no bandiad needed.
I run lower than norm pressure in my chambrers than what my weight recomends and its spot on, If Im hucking then I adjust up a bit but keep it 120/90 for most.

 

[Kanye West]

What do you weight/what springs do you plan on running?

I don't want to give away all my little tricks, but I can probably put you in the right direction.

 

[big-ted]

180lbs nekkid. If I were doing any, I'd be pushing for expert podiums in BC provincial cups this season. I usually find myself right in the middle of what manufacturers consider to be an "average" rider, so I've never had to change springs in any fork I've owned.

 

[SuspectDevice]

DOO zochie dampeners have adverbs?

 

[Kanye West]

Put better quality oil in the fork for starters once it breaks in, and remember that you should start your clicker adjustment from exactly halfway in. Make small adjustments (don't try to adjust your rebound and compression at the same time either). Depending how steep of stuff you're riding, MAYBE a bit heavier oil with a tiny bit less on the compression adjustment.

 

[William42]

Mabye try the RC3 air chamber thing in the bottom.

its at the top. I've played with it, it just makes the fork more progressive and alot stiffer.

If it came with proper spring rate I probably wouldn't hate it so much (3-4% sag at 170 lbs with gear) but so far marz hasn't released lighter springs. Word is they're going to at some point

 

[William42]

Oh it's very possible. The RC3 damper is pretty badass actually. You just have to know how it works and have a bit of prior experience with that sorta stuff. You should feel mine....

I too would love to hear what you've done!

 

[gemini2k]

I could expand my search to include the Travis, or I could just put my crack-pipe down right now...


Someone PLEASE make a reliable, well damped DH fork at around 7lb weight, and with no bigger than 36mm stanchions. PLEASE!

Hey, don't talk smack about the travis. I think even hacktastic will admit my travis feels nice . But unless you can get a travis super cheap, get the rc3. My 06 travis (which has been abused and sitll works great, minus the need for a smal rebuild and bushings) is becoming a backup fork and the ata rc3 the main fork (per hacktasticks ravings).

 

[Kanye West]

Like **** it does. Wet noodle vs. brick.

Will, are you talking about the normal 888 RC3? The couple of the coil ones that I've felt have been spot on for that weight. I don't know what the hell you're doing to get only 3-4% sag. When you pop out the damper, make sure you put it back in with the damper topped out, meaning compress the fork or lower the stanchion, pull the damper up so it's topped, hold it there as you bring the stanchion up and thread down the top cap. If you really need the fork to be more linear, find a way to remove that chamber retainer in the damper (I can't picture the assembly right now, otherwise I'd suggest a way).

 

[Kanye West]

Let me put it in your perspective big-ted, you won't be missing your Boxxer.

 

[William42]

Like **** it does. Wet noodle vs. brick.

Will, are you talking about the normal 888 RC3? The couple of the coil ones that I've felt have been spot on for that weight. I don't know what the hell you're doing to get only 3-4% sag. When you pop out the damper, make sure you put it back in with the damper topped out, meaning compress the fork or lower the stanchion, pull the damper up so it's topped, hold it there as you bring the stanchion up and thread down the top cap. If you really need the fork to be more linear, find a way to remove that chamber retainer in the damper (I can't picture the assembly right now, otherwise I'd suggest a way).

66rc3, just returned from a rebuild from marzocchi, exactly the same. Theres literally 3-4% sag in attack position. I'm not the best wrench in the world, I've only been working in bike shops for the past 2 years (and I'm not saying that sarcastically - theres lots to learn!) but I'm competent enough to reassemble something the way it came apart!

 

[Kanye West]

It's easy to make that mistake and make too small of an air chamber, even with the "preload" adjuster backed all the way out. Admittedly I haven't ridden any of the coil 66 RC3's, but I've ridden some coil 888 RC3's and the spring was just fine for that weight (my weight too).

 

[Udi]

Hmm, others a reporting real world wights of the 2008 RC3 at nearly 8.5lbs. The one I felt today didn't feel that heavy, but damn...

08 888ATA weighs 6.94lbs (3150g). In my book that's pretty heavy, given that a coil sprung F40 weighs 3120g and a coil boxxer team is just under that again. But for you it might be fine, and really it's not that heavy.

Other things I've noticed about the marzocchi is that it's overly progressive (especially in ATA guise), and the damper seems to augment the issue.

To be honest though I doubt the RC3 "really" lumps LSC and HSC into one adjuster (so it's probably not as bad as it sounds, it's likely more of an LSC adjuster), it'd just be mislabelling on marzocchi's part - there's a big disconnection between the engineers and guys who write the stickers/manuals I feel. Try one out if you can.

To my knowledge though pretty much all of them have the bushing issue, but if that's covered for you via warranty, then try it and see I guess. Aside from that your best bet would be waiting for the 09 boxxer... seems to tick all the boxes, no weight yet though.

 

[Tmeyer]

To my knowledge though pretty much all of them have the bushing issue, but if that's covered for you via warranty, then try it and see I guess. Aside from that your best bet would be waiting for the 09 boxxer... seems to tick all the boxes, no weight yet though.[/QUOTE]

Running an 888 RC3 WC and no bushing issues here. Best 888 to date, super stiff, extremely reliable, and overall a great fork.

 

[b16 lag]

The nickel coating came off one of the stanchions on mine but was sent back to the shop where purchased and back good as new within a week. The second quick and easy warranty claim i have had with Marzocchi over the last few years.

 

[big-ted]

08 888ATA weighs 6.94lbs (3150g). In my book that's pretty heavy, given that a coil sprung F40 weighs 3120g and a coil boxxer team is just under that again. But for you it might be fine, and really it's not that heavy.

Exactly. If we're all honest with ourselves, not one of us would notice a 200g weight strapped to our handlebars. If we spend all our time hanging the bike off scales, sure, but in actual use, not a chance. There's no denying that a steel coil sprung RC3 is going to be noticeably heavier than my Boxxer though, which is bothering me.

Other things I've noticed about the marzocchi is that it's overly progressive (especially in ATA guise), and the damper seems to augment the issue.

Hmm, this concerns me. I'd better try and go for a spin on one...

To be honest though I doubt the RC3 "really" lumps LSC and HSC into one adjuster (so it's probably not as bad as it sounds, it's likely more of an LSC adjuster), it'd just be mislabelling on marzocchi's part - there's a big disconnection between the engineers and guys who write the stickers/manuals I feel. Try one out if you can.

Good point. I tend not to ever tune the compression adjusters on my fork, but that relies on them being at least somewhat correct to begin with.

To my knowledge though pretty much all of them have the bushing issue, but if that's covered for you via warranty, then try it and see I guess.

No, it's definitely a select few, and from what I gather Marzocchi have been pretty quick getting it sorted.

Aside from that your best bet would be waiting for the 09 boxxer... seems to tick all the boxes, no weight yet though.

No way. I've seen guys jump on the Totem band wagon and have to suffer through two seasons of having the fork last two weeks between returns to Sram. That's just no way to produce a product. At the very least I'd want to wait a year to check they get all the bugs ironed out (at which point, I'd start a thread very similar to this one!).

I definitely don't care for the nickel coating. Marzocchi forks are already super plush anyway. I fail to see that I would notice the benefits, and it has the potential to be another thing to go wrong. Which bring me back:

If I were to get the standard RC3, is it actually possible to order the ti springs to retrofit? Can one of you monkeys with access to the distributor database find out if they're actually available?

And lastly, the 8" post mount described in Marzocchi's specs is a 74mm mount, correct?

 

[DirtyMike]

66rc3, just returned from a rebuild from marzocchi, exactly the same. Theres literally 3-4% sag in attack position. I'm not the best wrench in the world, I've only been working in bike shops for the past 2 years (and I'm not saying that sarcastically - theres lots to learn!) but I'm competent enough to reassemble something the way it came apart!

So let me see if I am reading this right, If not, please correct me. Your Only getting 3-4% sag? So you have almost No sag on this fork??? I just want to make sure your not meaning 30-40%.

 

[bullcrew]

If I were to get the standard RC3, is it actually possible to order the ti springs to retrofit? Can one of you monkeys with access to the distributor database find out if they're actually available?

And lastly, the 8" post mount described in Marzocchi's specs is a 74mm mount, correct?

It mounts for a 8" rotor no adapter needed (most brakes), almost anything post mount ie hayes, formula, avid etc bolt right on.

The springs will be available shortly I am waiting for one to cut a smidgen off and stuff into my 66 rc3

 

[big-ted]

It mounts for a 8" rotor no adapter needed (most brakes), almost anything post mount ie hayes, formula, avid etc bolt right on.

The springs will be available shortly I am waiting for one to cut a smidgen off and stuff into my 66 rc3

OK, that's good news. My problem regarding the brake is that I run the old generation of M4s, so I'll need to order a new caliper half. Based on your description, and on the page below, it's the number 9 caliper I need, and not the number 11?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=916

 

[DirtyMike]

Yes, you will use the Half that reads that it is for a 6 in post mount. I see in the link you listed, there is two number 9's listed, just make sure you get the post mount

 

[TomBo]

So whats wrong with Fox? Have guys been blowing them up?
My 40rc2 is going into its third year now. The bushings are toast, but that all that is wrong with it. Never had a lick of trouble. I have seen one with a tiny crack in the arch. Replacement turn around time was a week. I know the odd rebound rod lets go. Other wise, there light, there are spring options, good tuning...

 

[William42]

So let me see if I am reading this right, If not, please correct me. Your Only getting 3-4% sag? So you have almost No sag on this fork??? I just want to make sure your not meaning 30-40%.

I exaggerated; took a tape measure out and tested it, I'm actually getting much closer to 7-10% sag in standing up attack position.

Still not quite where I want it to be though.

 

[Biffff]

the 07 888 SL is awesome! PAR gone, ATA locked out, and this fork is friggin awesome! I can only imagine the 08 works just as good without the minor tweeks, and only weighs a half pound (roughly) more then the 07. I say go for it!

 

[big-ted]

See, my LBS has an '07 ATA on the shelf that I'm tempted to low ball them on, but after the problems I've had with my Boxxer, I kind of want something that's going to work, as intended, out the box. I don't mind minor tuning, but when I'm tearing the fork down every 2-3 weeks because it's got a leak or some internal component is broken I start to lose my patience.

I'm sure the 40 is a very capable fork, ( I love the 36 on my AM bike) but I've seen and heard of one too many being torn open due to the thin castings. The trails I ride on my DH bike are typically extremely steep, rocky and gnarly. I don't want to take the chance that I wont one day crash and gouge the lowers on a rock.

 

[jamesdc]

See, my LBS has an '07 ATA on the shelf that I'm tempted to low ball them on, but after the problems I've had with my Boxxer, I kind of want something that's going to work, as intended, out the box. I don't mind minor tuning, but when I'm tearing the fork down every 2-3 weeks because it's got a leak or some internal component is broken I start to lose my patience.

I'm sure the 40 is a very capable fork, ( I love the 36 on my AM bike) but I've seen and heard of one too many being torn open due to the thin castings. The trails I ride on my DH bike are typically extremely steep, rocky and gnarly. I don't want to take the chance that I wont one day crash and gouge the lowers on a rock.

The 07 ata is a bomb fork once modified and i think thats the best choice so far. Maybe Hacktastic will chime in and tell you he modifed it, his fork felt great.

 

[Biffff]

See, my LBS has an '07 ATA on the shelf that I'm tempted to low ball them on, but after the problems I've had with my Boxxer, I kind of want something that's going to work, as intended, out the box. I don't mind minor tuning, but when I'm tearing the fork down every 2-3 weeks because it's got a leak or some internal component is broken I start to lose my patience.

I'm sure the 40 is a very capable fork, ( I love the 36 on my AM bike) but I've seen and heard of one too many being torn open due to the thin castings. The trails I ride on my DH bike are typically extremely steep, rocky and gnarly. I don't want to take the chance that I wont one day crash and gouge the lowers on a rock.

In 15 to 20 minutes all the issues with an 07 888 sl ata can be fixed. 2 little screws lock the ata out (I have no desire to have travel adjust) Taking the PAR out is a little more involved but just follow renegades instructions and you'll have no problems. I've beeen running mine hard for the past 6 months. I ride 5 days a week. I've had no issues with my Fork. I have a buddy who has one too and he hasn't even done the mods and his fork works perfectly......full travel and no wind down. You'll get it cheap, its almost as light as a boxxer, and its strong.

 

[Supernaut]

In 15 to 20 minutes all the issues with an 07 888 sl ata can be fixed. 2 little screws lock the ata out (I have no desire to have travel adjust) Taking the PAR out is a little more involved but just follow renegades instructions and you'll have no problems. I've beeen running mine hard for the past 6 months. I ride 5 days a week. I've had no issues with my Fork. I have a buddy who has one too and he hasn't even done the mods and his fork works perfectly......full travel and no wind down. You'll get it cheap, its almost as light as a boxxer, and its strong.

I have too agree to this. The 07 888SL is great when modified. And the mods is just as easy to do as an oil change. Heres what i did to mine and how i did it:

1: Lock out the ata function:

Set your travel where you want it. Pull off the adjuster knob and unscrew the top cap using a shimano cassette tool. There are 2 allen set screws going into the side of the cap, Tighten these to the point where you no longer are able to turn the ata knob. Done. But while you`re at it, why don`t remove the pesky undersized par-chamber as well?

2: PAR-removal:

If you have done the steps above, the next step is removing the ATA cartridge. To do this you just have to undo the bottom nut on the ATA leg, and drain the lubricating oil from the leg. Although zocchi tells us otherwise, you dont have to use their special socket.
When the nut is undone, pull the entire cart out of the fork.
Next deflate both the par and main air chambers. Push the par valve a couple of centimeters into the cartridge to reveal a locking ring. Pry out the ring with a small screwdriver, and pull out the par-assembly. Remove one of the clips holding the tether to the piston, and slide the piston and tether of the assembly. Reassemble, put in 80cc oil, reinflate and thats it for the ata side.

3: Still to progressive?:

There is also an volume reducer on the RC2 cartridge pumping rod. Removing this also helps making the fork more linear. This is easily done by unscrewing and removing the right topcap, removing the c-clips holding the volume reducer, and sliding it of the pumping rod. Take care not to screw up the rebound adjuster when removing\installing the top cap.

4: To much rebound:

This fork is a happier camper if it gets filled up with 5 or 2,5 weight oil instead of 7,5 which is standard. (At least if you weigh measly 70kg like me.)

Happy riding and tuning, Fred.

 

[Udi]

Wow that's a very thorough post there Supernaut.

That'd be my choice. The 08 fork is a bit of a pig, but the 07 kept things real... 35mm stanchions is all you need, 2950g, and no worries about bushings.

For the record that's pretty much everything vitox did to his 888SL's too.. remove PAR, remove volume reducer in damper side, lock ATA assembly. I think he also machined a new bottom "plug" for the air cartridge, instead of the PAR's unit... because it was still a bit too progressive he said. But I'm guessing if you just remove the chamber and ditch the volume reducer, it's probably pretty decent after that, especially for a bigger rider.

 

[big-ted]

Argh. I hate you guys! The last thing I need is more options to consider!

This isn't made any easier by the fact I leave for my roadtrip/Psychosis on Thursday, so if I'm to order in an '08 I need to do so in about 3 hours. Plus I need to get a caliper half Fed-Exed to me, and the 07 and 08 forks take different brake adapters.

Being honest, part of me is becoming slightly curious about all the tuning options of the '07 though...

Biff, James DC11 and Supernaut (thanks btw), if I can do so without sounding arogant, what level would you say your riding was at? How hard are you on bike components in general? The reliability is something that really concerns me.

 

[big-ted]

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172002&highlight=ATA

Good lord. Am I seriously considering this?!