[Toshi]

ok, here's what i'm looking for in my dream bike which may or may not get built this season :

- lots of travel (i plan to run a slider+ or a 888r up front)
- dh geometry
- compatible with 32-36t chainrings, no big-ring-only bikes here
- LOW
- did i mention LOW?

what i mean by low/LOW: my current ride is an evil imperial. it's out of my way, and with the seatpost showing a good 5 inches of post i "bottom out", so to speak, on the tire, with the bike and seat completely out of the way. i want this ability, as it makes me feel more comfortable on the steeps.

the type of riding i'm into is the pac nw favorite, "shore" type stuff. my bike handling is fine as is my balance, so i'd be willing to trade agility in this hypothetical frame for stability.

what i'm not looking for is my last two big bikes, a 17" uzzi slx and a 17" stinky, upgraded to 6" of travel, 2001 super t on both. those bikes fit me fine in terms of xc sizing (see pic below) but felt uncomfortably tall on the trail when the going got steep. so i'm not looking for a trailbike. i'm 5'7"ish? or so, for the record.

instead i want a low, canadian-approved dh sled, with the emphasis on the low/out of the way aspect. for example, i definitely don't want a scream or a kona, since they seem very short and tall in their layout. make sense?

oh, and i don't want to spend a mint, if possible . taiwanese made is no problem.

my old intense, too tall:

my current evil, a fun bike but with 0mm in the rear, and as my beloved pinkbike shirt states, "i love 7 inches" back there

 

[kidwoo]

Chumba Wumba.

Tough, low and the coolest headtube graphic ever.

 

[anarchyUK]

A small 223 is WAY low

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by anarchyUK
A small 223 is WAY low

interesting. and it's not small in all the other, knee-banging regards? i see that its top tube is 21.5 inches, but its "effective top tube" is 22.8. any orange riders care to comment?

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/2004bikes/bikes.php?bike=223#geom

Originally posted by kidwoo
Chumba Wumba.

Tough, low and the coolest headtube graphic ever.

f4? zulu? which one? small f4 and zulu have 23" top tubes, interesting...

http://www.chumbawumba.com/f4.htm

come on saturday night surfers, i need more suggestions! make sure that they're North Shore Approved, too

 

[djjohnr]

Hmm...lots of standover, dh geometry, and not to expensive...

The Chumba Wumba is low, but not very inexpensive.

A BB7 may fit the bill, or a Cove Peeler (I think that's what they call their DH frame).

A used DHR would be perfect.

 

[Yeti DHer]

toshi, heres a couple suggestions for you.

Mountain cycle 9.5

Gemini DH

I don't know much more about low bikes... I always look for the biggest possible

 

[anarchyUK]

the 223 is super ajusable
The LenZ Sport Pro D might work too if you want to run a 24 in the trunk

 

[MMcG]

Originally posted by gurp
Hmm...lots of standover, dh geometry, and not to expensive...

The Chumba Wumba is low, but not very inexpensive.

A BB7 may fit the bill, or a Cove Peeler (I think that's what they call their DH frame).

A used DHR would be perfect.

Seems to me there are several good suggestions in this list - also probably a lot but what about those PDC racing frames (Did I get that right? - fairly new company out of Canada I believe?).

I just remembered you want to run two rings right? Hmmm......then perhaps a Balfa 2Step or 2Step DH (HD) would fit the bill quite nicely.

 

[Toshi]

no 24"s please. just a matter of sheer prejudice here since i don't plan on racing anytime soon. (last time was at mammoth, and i landed squarely on my head, just about knocking myself silly. never again.)

cove peeler: one size only, and it's a 17.5" can't see how that could be too low. thanks for the suggestion, tho.

bb7, eh? does look quite low. interesting, i never gave much thought to these before:

used dhr: indeed i like the looks of dhrs, low and out of the way. almost snapped one up a while back when it showed up in the buy and sell here. hmm.

shockwave, gemini: look nice, but how are they on the LOW requirement? there are a million and one dh/huck bikes out there, and i'm basically looking for a dh version of my imperial... :devil:

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by MMcG


Seems to me there are several good suggestions in this list - also probably a lot but what about those PDC racing frames (Did I get that right? - fairly new company out of Canada I believe?).

indeed the pdc racing frames look wonderful. $$$ tho.

especially bottomed out, the LOW requirement is met in spades: http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/photo/?op=view&image=126148

edit: maybe it isn't bottomed? i think we may have a winner if this is the case.

http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/news/?op=articleview&id=1740 has more.

at least it's only $$$, not $$$$$, no? hmm.

 

[MMcG]

Originally posted by Toshi
indeed the pdc racing frames look wonderful. $$$ tho.

especially bottomed out, the LOW requirement is met in spades: http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/photo/?op=view&image=126148

edit: maybe it isn't bottomed? i think we may have a winner if this is the case.

http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/news/?op=articleview&id=1740 has more.

at least it's only $$$, not $$$$$, no? hmm.

See my edits - a 2Step or 2Step HD would fit the bill for you quite nicely I think.

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by MMcG
See my edits - a 2Step or 2Step HD would fit the bill for you quite nicely I think.

nonono! i don't want another high, spindly trailbike . one ring is fine with me, as long as it's a 36 or smaller.

 

[dropmachine]

The 9.5 carries the wieght about as low as you possibly can. Its a killer bike, and is more fun then it has a right to be.

I can't wait till my new one gets here actually. =)

 

[Tully]

Originally posted by MMcG
See my edits - a 2Step or 2Step HD would fit the bill for you quite nicely I think.

The seat angle doesn't look very slack on the 2step, though. But it could be an illusion.

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by dropmachine.com
The 9.5 carries the wieght about as low as you possibly can. Its a killer bike, and is more fun then it has a right to be.

I can't wait till my new one gets here actually. =)

hmm. i would have to see one in person. it looks to me that the high pivot design necessarily forces everything, including the top tube with that thick monocoque, up a few inches higher than need be...

Originally posted by Tully
The seat angle doesn't look very slack on the 2step, though. But it could be an illusion.

oh, i don't need an evil-esque slacked out seat tube angle. just low standover a la evil. i'm not searching for a robbie bourdon size bike here either! i'm not THAT short just something a bit different, normal length but low.

thanks for the suggestions so far, people. keep 'em coming.

 

[Dog Welder]

What about that Ventana/Go Ride bike...or the one being built by Kona Dude?

 

[downy]

Originally posted by Dog Welder
What about that Ventana/Go Ride bike...or the one being built by Kona Dude?

He said it, that bike is fairly low when sagged. Great race bike.

 

[xy9ine]

i agree with the low-bike sentiment. i'm 6' tall, but hate tall gangly bikes; i've got a letoy hardtail, which is tiny, but with a long tt - a perfect setup. i've also got a large v10 which is simmilarily long & low - huge travel / low profile - i love this frame. i use the 10 for northshore & whistler & it works well for me (including the tight tech stuff), but some may find it a little too soft & slack for predominantly trail useage. the bb7 would also be a solid (affordable) choice (compared to the more exotic chumba & pdc). nice burly compact frame. all the other suggestions are a bit tall in the seatmast area. i'd like to suggest a brooklyn racelink, but that may be a bit out of reach...

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by Dog Welder
What about that Ventana/Go Ride bike...or the one being built by Kona Dude?

ventana/go-ride... the el cuervo? does look interesting, yes.

http://www.go-ride.com/prod_frames_ventana.html

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by xy9ine
i agree with the low-bike sentiment. i'm 6' tall, but hate tall gangly bikes; i've got a letoy hardtail, which is tiny, but with a long tt - a perfect setup. i've also got a large v10 which is simmilarily long & low - huge travel / low profile - i love this frame. i use the 10 for northshore & whistler & it works well for me (including the tight tech stuff), but some may find it a little too soft & slack for predominantly trail useage. the bb7 would also be a solid (affordable) choice (compared to the more exotic chumba & pdc). nice burly compact frame. all the other suggestions are a bit tall in the seatmast area. i'd like to suggest a brooklyn racelink, but that may be a bit out of reach...

cool, so i'm not the only one. lucky for you that "low" is relatively higher. i don't think i'd be too happy on a small or medium v10, although you never know...

 

[NateH]

I Feel required to add that most low bikes out there are not exactly shore freindly as they are DH bikes. Good DH bike = Long, low, balanced. Good Shore bike = Taller, Shorter, more hieght in the front end. From experience I know that World Cup level dh rigs don't work the best on the shore(case in point- Yeti DH-9, Giant DH Team, I-Horse SGS Team, etc...)

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by NateH
I Feel required to add that most low bikes out there are not exactly shore freindly as they are DH bikes. Good DH bike = Long, low, balanced. Good Shore bike = Taller, Shorter, more hieght in the front end. From experience I know that World Cup level dh rigs don't work the best on the shore(case in point- Yeti DH-9, Giant DH Team, I-Horse SGS Team, etc...)

hmm, why is it the case that shore bikes must be taller and shorter? as i said, i would accept a tradeoff in favor of stability in favor of agility, and i loathe the look and feel of short, tall bikes (banshee and kona being my examples from above). isn't being comfortable on the bike the main requirement?

 

[Fulton]

just to clairify, are you looking for:
1) low BB height
2) low top tube/standover height
3) low COG,center of gravity??

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by Fulton
just to clairify, are you looking for:
1) low BB height
2) low top tube/standover height
3) low COG,center of gravity??

#2 and #3. don't really care about BB height. i also like to set up my front end low, that horrid pic of my intense aside, but that's something that can be done on any bike.

think "dh evil imperial" and you get the picture. so far the pdc looks nearly perfect, except that it's $2600 or so. too much, at least for this season.

 

[xy9ine]

Originally posted by Toshi
hmm, why is it the case that shore bikes must be taller and shorter? as i said, i would accept a tradeoff in favor of stability in favor of agility, and i loathe the look and feel of short, tall bikes (banshee and kona being my examples from above). isn't being comfortable on the bike the main requirement?

i agree. for super-tech skinnes & knarley steeps, the lower the standover the better. most dh bikes actually work great on the shore. most trails arent *that* tight that a dh race frame is detrimental.

 

[wisc fr-rider]

i am selling a 16 in patriot 7 that would probaly be perfect for you if you are interested in used bikes.

But my first choice would be a canfield f1 for a long and low bike, that thing looks amazing

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by wisc fr-rider
i am selling a 16 in patriot 7 that would probaly be perfect for you if you are interested in used bikes.

But my first choice would be a canfield f1 for a long and low bike, that thing looks amazing

http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/news/?op=articleview&id=1719

that canfield really does look nice! but not available used for a while, and $2250 or so with a shock is pricey. ah, who am i kidding? maybe i'll just live on ramen for the rest of the year...

patriot 7, eh? looks like more of a tilted-back trailbike, although very interesting in concept. not too interested in purchasing yours at this time, however. thanks for the offer, though.

 

[Shmoe]

http://pdcracing.com/products2.html

Looks like an amazing bike.

 

[TWISTED]

You live in Portland?
Gee, it's too bad no one builds bikes in Portland.
You know if I was a serious rider, it would seem that there might be many benifits in buying a bike that was manufactured in town.

 

[Fulton]

Originally posted by Dog Welder
What about that Ventana/Go Ride bike...or the one being built by Kona Dude?

i didn't know he was building bikes now (konadude). is he knolly bikes?? just a thought.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Originally posted by Fulton
i didn't know he was building bikes now (konadude). is he knolly bikes?? just a thought.

Konadude WAS part of PDC... now it's in Kyle's (dhdescender) hands.

 

[Motionboy2]

9 inches of travel, 2 ring capability...only one thing comes to mind http://www.nine-honking-inches-of-travel.com/

 

[BEAUster]

 

[Supa8]

Having looked at a large list of bikes only a few are slung low and fit in style you are looking for. A used 02 DHR can be set up as you want. I use my small ( even a medium is fairly low ) for DH, and as my heavy duty freeride rig.


The Gemini DH looks fairly low slung and would set up nice as fairly light weight freeride, fun DH rig.

The Go-ride EL Cuervo also looks like in a small frame would fit the style you are after.

As travel has increased the long slung term is going out the window.

Good luck on looking for a bike in this range. Your description of what you are looking for is the same as when I went shopping for my Turner.

 

[vitox]

i rode a pdc the other day

if you want a low bike, thats the one.

any lower bb on a dh travel bike isnt worth it, the one i rode had the bb at around the axle height or just below (iirc).

as for ball-clearance and general low-ness, there is no other bike thats lower, im pretty certain about that, more ball and knee clearance than on a small dhr, only one that i could think of being lower CoG wise might be the lahar, but that would be from speculation only as ive never ridden a lahar.

as for the build quality of the pdc i can vouch for them, the whole bike is impressive, it might not be everybodys cup of tea but the fact is that if one of your main objectives is a low bike, both CoG, BB and knee/ball clearance-wise, then the pdc has that and more of it than any other frame i know.

 

[Bldr_DH]

I know you're looking for an uber low bike, but the Balfa 2step DH is really nice. Racking yourself isn't a problem at all and you can get WAY the heck back on it. It's also very stable and the geometry is awesome.

 

[Toshi]

thanks for the tip on the demo9, josh, but i'm not necessarily looking for two ring compatibility. i run one ring on my evil already, and that's fine with me. i still have my rigid xc bike for when i feel like grinding up fireroads.

TWISTED, are you being sarcastic? kinesis is in portland, yes, but i'm not sure if they build what i'm after.

BEAUster and Supa8, the R9 and the DHR both look to be in the same vein. Care to chime in on how yours works in this regard, Acadian?

The Gemini and the El Cuervo conceivably could work. But, once again, not cheap or available used. Also, thanks for your PDC feedback, vitox, but once again we have the same issue.

I guess I have to find people with Turners and bug them for a test ride. Any volunteers in the Pac NW? heh

Finally, anyone have prebuilt (Specialized, Kona?, Giant, Cannondale etc.) suggestions that might fit the bill?

 

[RD3]

The Risse Lassen is low and very adjustable.

 

[vitox]

Originally posted by Toshi
Also, thanks for your PDC feedback, vitox, but once again we have the same issue.

ah your right i hadnt read the whole thread, seems like a turner might be the ticket then.
or maybe you could team up with another and go for those combos kyle is offering with an 888 its around 3k us for frame shock hub bb and 888.

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by RD3
The Risse Lassen is low and very adjustable.

interesting. i never would have thought of risse had you not suggested it. the design sort of scares me .

i wish iron horse made a size shorter than the 17" (ie, the opposite of tall, but not scrunched up front to back) -- their pricing is so good on their complete bikes...