...and the Dem's Call Op Iraqi Freedom Failed?

Rip · May 5, 2003

Interesting.

fluff · May 6, 2003

Before you can classify the success or failure of any project you need to define the aims and criteria of success. Do we know these or were they kept secret?

Also I haven't seen any news of definitive chemical weapons discoveries as yet, a few false alarms and maybe's but nothing concrete?

It would be hard to call it a failure however, although I think there is still work to be done to ensure that the whole thing doesn't go to **** again.

patconnole · May 6, 2003

Lame.

Yes, it would have been faster to launch a cruise missle against the Branch Davidians.

Haven't been following the news much, but.... Where are those chem weapons? Didn't bush say just a few days ago, "They will be found."

Was this emailed to everyone@military.gov by the Rebulican National Committee?

BurlyShirley · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by patconnole

Was this emailed to everyone@military.gov by the Rebulican National Committee?

i didnt get that

patconnole · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by BurlySurly
i didnt get that

joking.... I was saying, was this created and distributed by the RNC for military folks.

BurlyShirley · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by patconnole
joking.... I was saying, was this created and distributed by the RNC for military folks.

no, i got the joke....but i didnt get the email.

patconnole · May 6, 2003

Damn! I'm too slow.

partsbara · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by BurlySurly
i didnt get that

there is alot of things that you don t get BS...

BurlyShirley · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by partsbara
there is alot of things that you don t get BS...

Wow, you Tool. You have nothing better to with your time than instigate?

Why dont you go look for a job or something?

partsbara · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Wow, you Tool. You have nothing better to with your time than instigate?

Why dont you go look for a job or something?

because your employer (the government doesn t allow me to)

plus... i like to rile up a$$ clowns...

i remember when i was 20 BS... it won t always be that way :dead:

partsbara - your friend

LordOpie · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by partsbara
i remember when i was 20 BS... it won t always be that way

dismissing someone and they're opinions because they're young is weak.

BurlyShirley · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by partsbara
because your employer (the government doesn t allow me to)

plus... i like to rile up a$$ clowns...

i remember when i was 20 BS... it won t always be that way

partsbara - your friend

Wow, the US government doesnt allow Australians to get jobs in Germany....who knew?

Learn something everday i guess.

partsbara · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by LordOpie
dismissing someone and they're opinions because they're young is weak.

i know.. i can only bench 15 lb

partsbara

partsbara · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by LordOpie
dismissing someone and they're opinions because they're young is weak.

does the correlation between age and experience not equate in the mind of lord opie ?

in most instances i wouldn t dismiss the opinion of a younger person, but in the case of BS i digress cause he is just asking for it... battle crab

LordOpie · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by partsbara
i know.. i can only bench 15 lb

partsbara

No, I'm serious. You have a problem with young people who can express themselves, are opinionated, and are right too often for your liking...

you know DT, i m always open to people having their own opinions (regardless of my personal viewpoint), it s what makes life interesting and worth living... what i don t like tho' is people (often youngsters) who haven t LIVED making judgements about sh1t that they have no idea! http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=646726#post646726

You're judging BS and others on their age. You cannot possibly know enough about -- sticking with BS as the example -- how much experience he's had in his young life. Judge him (and others) not on his age, but rather their comments and contributions.

If they're wrong, fine, that's how we humans learn... so don't discourage them.

As for BS specifically, he makes some of the most rational, well thought out posts I see here or anywhere. I disagree with him about many subjective topics, but his opinions are sound. Hell, if i wasn't so secure or indifferent -- haven't decided yet -- I'd be jealous of him

Anyway, good luck with that.

LordOpie · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by partsbara
does the correlation between age and experience not equate in the mind of lord opie ?

It doesn't. Age only offers the opportunity and potential for experience. They don't equate.

Tenchiro · May 6, 2003

I thought they still had not found proof of any WMD in Iraq?

BurlyShirley · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by partsbara
does the correlation between age and experience not equate in the mind of lord opie ?

in most instances i wouldn t dismiss the opinion of a younger person, but in the case of BS i digress cause he is just asking for it... battle crab

Well, look at it like this, i turn 21 in 8 days. I have 2 jobs, you have none.
Your experience obviously isnt enough to get you gainfully employed. You add nothing of relevance to any post in this particular forum other than sheer instigation. Your age and experience really show when you resort to childish namecalling. Yes, pal, i dismissed your opinion long ago.
Perhaps instead of thinking up some unclever reply to this, you'd do better to fill out an application at the local (insert unskilled labor position here) and quit wasting your day trying to harass someone who doesnt really care what you have to say.
If you're not going to post anything worthwhile, dont post at all. Im through reading your crap. Want to disagree? Fine, dont make it personal, and i wont either.

partsbara · May 6, 2003

mmmm, lighten up

the truth of the matter is that i am judging (him) on his 'comments and contributions'... they show a complete lack of understanding and experience... i m willing to bet that he had never travelled (aside from military tours) and is so impressionable that it is almost bordering on brainwashing...

not to say that there is no hope.. sure BS, you aren t dumb, but you lack the EXPERIENCE to really appreciate what it is have an objective POV...

my advice to BS... LEAVE the war macheen, buy a backpack and travel the world.. there is more to than what your sheltered existence has taught you...

later

parts

partsbara · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Well, look at it like this, i turn 21 in 8 days. I have 2 jobs, you have none.
Your experience obviously isnt enough to get you gainfully employed. You add nothing of relevance to any post in this particular forum other than sheer instigation. Your age and experience really show when you resort to childish namecalling. Yes, pal, i dismissed your opinion long ago.
Perhaps instead of thinking up some unclever reply to this, you'd do better to fill out an application at the local (insert unskilled labor position here) and quit wasting your day trying to harass someone who doesnt really care what you have to say.
If you're not going to post anything worthwhile, dont post at all. Im through reading your crap. Want to disagree? Fine, dont make it personal, and i wont either.

i have two degrees BS... how many do you have ? ....

i thought so....

carry on

BurlyShirley · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by partsbara
i have two degrees BS... how many do you have ? ....

i thought so....

carry on

Oh, probably an associates in rhetoric and a BA in BS.

You consider me impressionable, why? If I've done one thing on this board, its been to stand my ground and not be convinced by other arguments. My opinions on the topics im sure you're talking about were formed long before the Marines. I would think that, being in your position on a military base, you'd know that there is no real political idealogy being stressed to the troops. Its illegal actually.
Honestly, I cant wait (less than a year thank god) until im out of the military. But id never trade the "experience" for anything.
My degree is just around the corner, but ive also been a bit busy...oh yeah, and im only 20.

ohio · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by LordOpie
Judge him (and others) not on his age, but rather their comments and contributions.

While we're waxing poetic and off topic:

Often comments and contributions point either to experience or lack thereof.

There is a correlation between age and experience, though certainly not an equation, and it's really the experience part that I think most people mean when they discuss age.

IMO, the most important experience one can go through (or at the very least, witness) is to need and not have. And this is precisely the experience that many people are lacking (regardless of age) in the arguments that chafe me the most.

That's not directed at BS. It's a general observation...

partsbara · May 6, 2003

ok... pretty good reply

my advice still stands... 'buy a backpack and travel the world.. '

good luck with your degree, paper isn t all it s cracked up to be... use ya military experience and do whatever ya want... don t confine yourself into some category that your 'experience' points towards...

as i ve said before.. i m not attacking you, i m just highlighting the 'flaws' in your justification...

leave the military BS, often it s a cop out for crew who have nothing else to fall back on..

partsbara

partsbara · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by ohio
While we're waxing poetic and off topic:

Often comments and contributions point either to experience or lack thereof.

There is a correlation between age and experience, though certainly not an equation, and it's really the experience part that I think most people mean when they discuss age.

IMO, the most important experience one can go through (or at the very least, witness) is to need and not have. And this is precisely the experience that many people are lacking (regardless of age) in the arguments that chafe me the most.

That's not directed at BS. It's a general observation...

well said...

LordOpie · May 6, 2003

I think the thing that disturbs people the most about BS is his absoluteness in his opinions. I don't think that he thinks he is absolutely right, just simply that he absolutely knows what his opinion is. As he said, he's been consistent and steadfast while listening and replying to various posts.

I admire that quality and wish I hadn't lost it.

IMO, the most important experience one can go through (or at the very least, witness) is to need and not have. And this is precisely the experience that many people are lacking (regardless of age) in the arguments that chafe me the most.

I think we can agree that whatever experience that has affected us the most is the most important experience that others lack.

For example, while I appreciate your perspective, my opinion is "the most important experience one can go through (or at the very least, witness)" is watching someone very close to you die in front of you.

We all have our differing points of views and I think it's silly to dismiss someone because we think they have not (subjectively) had enough experience to make their opinion matter.

Spud · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by Tenchiro
I thought they still had not found proof of any WMD in Iraq?

Whaddaya trying to do, bring this back on topic?

LordOpie · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by partsbara
ok... pretty good reply

Do you realize that you sound condescending? I mean, if you want to be condescending, then cool. But you're not very good at it. I mean, you're ok, but you're not Strongbad awesome at being condescending.

Spud · May 6, 2003

Im starting to see a pattern developing. :think:

N8 posts some provocative items then offers no follow up or debate coolly sitting back with an icy beverage in hand watching the mini-monkey riot develop. I feel so, so used.

edit - then again.... seems like there's not much relevant debate to participate in either....

ohio · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by LordOpie
For example, while I appreciate your perspective, my opinion is "the most important experience one can go through (or at the very least, witness)" is watching someone very close to you die in front of you.

You're right. I should have said something like this:

I believe that until you have enough experience to truly put yourself in someone else's position, you don't have the right to argue against them... That's not to say you have to share the same experiences as them, but you need the ability to understand their point of view and motivations.

How many times have we seen arguments like "you just want to smoke pot." or "you just like guns/war?" It's a complete lack of understanding that allows us to view the other side as purely selfishly motivated. When I see that happen continuously and repeatedly, it's shows either a lack of experience or a closed mind...

Tenchiro · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by Spud
Whaddaya trying to do, bring this back on topic?

Sorry, what I meant to say is;

Young people are stupid; and old people are cranky!

Silver · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by Spud
Im starting to see a pattern developing. N8 posts some provocative items then offers no follow up or debate coolly sitting back with an icy beverage in hand watching the mini-monkey riot develop. I feel so, so used.

edit - then again.... seems like there's not much relevant debate to participate in either....

That smiling sun avatar of his kinda puts me off guard....

LordOpie · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by Tenchiro
Sorry, what I meant to say is;

Young people are stupid; and old people are cranky!

I guess I'm a paradox then

Originally posted by ohio
I believe that until you have enough experience to truly put yourself in someone else's position, you don't have the right to argue against them... That's not to say you have to share the same experiences as them, but you need the ability to understand their point of view and motivations.

While I agree with you, there's also the idea that someone who hasn't shared similar experiences can bring a fresh perspective to the table.

Originally posted by ohio
It's a complete lack of understanding that allows us to view the other side as purely selfishly motivated.

That's a fun philosophical discussion. I think *everything* everyone does is motivated by selfishness.

PS: As far as hijacking N8's thread... I think this topic is more entertaining

partsbara · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by LordOpie
Do you realize that you sound condescending? I mean, if you want to be condescending, then cool. But you're not very good at it. I mean, you're ok, but you're not Strongbad awesome at being condescending.

ok... thanks.... take it as you will

trust me opie, you ll know when i m being condescending... this isn t it...

ohio · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by LordOpie
While I agree with you, there's also the idea that someone who hasn't shared similar experiences can bring a fresh perspective to the table.

One might have a fresh perspective resulting from different experiences, but if they lack the ability to empathize they'll have no way of effectively communicating those ideas.

A fresh perspective on it's own is usually pretty worthless if it comes from someone that can't grasp all of the facets to an argument. Fortunately, experiences are often cummulative, and a collection of people can feed of each others ideas and develop something useful... unless they fall back on childish bickering :rolleyes:

valve bouncer · May 7, 2003

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Well, look at it like this, i turn 21 in 8 days. I have 2 jobs, you have none.
Your experience obviously isnt enough to get you gainfully employed. You add nothing of relevance to any post in this particular forum other than sheer instigation. Your age and experience really show when you resort to childish namecalling. Yes, pal, i dismissed your opinion long ago.
Perhaps instead of thinking up some unclever reply to this, you'd do better to fill out an application at the local (insert unskilled labor position here) and quit wasting your day trying to harass someone who doesnt really care what you have to say.
If you're not going to post anything worthwhile, dont post at all. Im through reading your crap. Want to disagree? Fine, dont make it personal, and i wont either.

LOL@ BS, proving once again that he doesn't know his arse from a hole in the ground. Partsbara has more experience, skills and qualifications than you can shake a stick at. Having known the man since we were both young grommets at university I can assure you he has forgotten more than you'll ever hope to know. He has lived and worked in at least half a dozen countries, worked in a variety of jobs from teacher to barman to bike mechanic and more. The fact that he is having trouble gaining employment is more a reflection of the idiotic policies of your government than any inadequacies that he may have. Seems that being from a country that has been and continues to be a loyal ally of the USA counts for nothing in the real world.
You, on the other hand have been a Marine and a.....?? and also a....?? um um um. What exactly have you done that makes you an authority on everything? That's right you've been a grunt in the army which makes you just about qualified to be a grunt in the army. You unfortunately don't have enough common sense to know that there are things that you don't know and that you'll only learn these things by sitting back and listening to people who do. That's what experience teaches you and sometimes it's a hard and humbling lesson to learn. You'd do well to get some study in fella 'cos from what I see you're in for a rough time. Just remember the noun most closely associated with opinionated is asshole.

Serial Midget · May 7, 2003

Originally posted by partsbara
i have two degrees BS... how many do you have ? ....

This means nothing... higher education has nothing to do with intelligence. One is innate and the other can be bought. To suggest that you are of superior mind and perceive yourself to be smarter simply because you have 2 degrees is total bullsh!t. The world is crammed packed with over-educated underachievers who blame their lack of initiative and inability to secure employment on the uneducated masses who are too stupid to recognize their brilliance. The US Gov'ment prevents you from gainful employment. Give me a break - you pobably just found a way to keep sucking tit.

If this were a test of communications skills; my money would not be on you partsbara. :monkey:

Serial Midget · May 7, 2003

Originally posted by valve bouncer
Just remember the noun most closely associated with opinionated is asshole.

You spend all those words and then bankrupt your arguement with a personal insult? What else did you learn while at "University" ?

:rolleyes:

valve bouncer · May 7, 2003

Originally posted by Serial Midget
This means nothing... higher education has nothing to do with intelligence. One is innate and the other can be bought. To suggest that you are of superior mind and perceive yourself to be smarter simply because you have 2 degrees is total bullsh!t. The world is crammed packed with over-educated underachievers who blame their lack of initiative and inability to secure employment on the uneducated masses who are too stupid to recognize their brilliance. The US Gov'ment prevents you from gainful employment. Give me a break - you pobably just found a way to keep sucking tit.

If this were a test of communications skills; my money would not be on you partsbara.

Excellent use of an out of context quote to make a dubious point based on things that you obviously know nothing about. Don't you think it is even the slighest bit incongruous that an Australian a person from a country that has consistently been one of America's closest allies is denied work at an American base even though he is married to an American, has a green card and qualifies for American citizenship? Now even if Partsbara was content to "keep sucking tit" as you so ignorantly put it why would he even bother to look for work never mind start a thread complaining about the fact that it is made so difficult for him to work. Think before you post SM, we're used to a higher quality from you.

...and the Dem's Call Op Iraqi Freedom Failed?

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