So went and road a local trail today somewhat rocky. I was feeling fast was pushing hard in a few turns and the rear tire started folding over good. Then on a small rock at high speed I landed sideways and it did the same. Felt like it almost broke the bead loose. Ay tips or tricks you guys have found? I am 210 lbs and had like 26lbs in there I would guess......
Anybody Loosing Tires On Stan's ZTR Flow Hoops?
- Thread starter ianjenn
- Start date
Confucius say:
High mass of ass don't go with low mass of rim.
High mass of ass don't go with low mass of rim.
Are they the old Flows or the Flow EXs? Some riders have said that the Flow EX do not hold a tire as well as the old one, but I don't have any first hand experience on this
Woah. 26psi seems really damn low for your weight. I'm 170-175# and have zero problems running Minion Exos, Minion 2-ply, et al. on the old ZTR Flow rims @ 28-30psi front. I don't even have any sealing problems with a front ZTR wheel/Minion Exo setup that I bashed in a stack and semi-tacoed the rim on. I mounted tubeless with Gorilla Tape.
What tires you running with what kinda sidewall? I dunno if 26psi is insanely low, but given the rider weight and side loading, imnot surprised tires burped. If these were old flows, the wider EXs may give you a better profile.
What Tire was it? The non-tubeless Maxxis's would not stay on mine at 195lbs of mass on top of them. No issues w/ TR Schwalbe's. (except for the knobs ripping off)
They are the new EX's and for tires it is a Maxxis Minion DHR II 2 PLY DH 42a. I need to throw a pressure guage on. If thats the case I will run tubes again maybe. No issues running tubes and mid 20 PSI for years....
Can the STANS even fit a tube in them?
Can the STANS even fit a tube in them?
Below 35 psi I can peel a tire off that rim on command. I am running with Specialized 2bliss control casing tires. If I run upper 30s its usually OK.
ha, I'm 130lbs soaking wet and always run 28-32psi on those same rims.
I'm 225 and there's no way I could run 26psi. I was folding tires at 30 on an 823 this last weekend.
TUBELESS MY A+! thanks I will go back to DH tubes add 400 grams to the bike and run 23-28 LBS all day long. Crap now I need new hoops unless the STans can hold a DH tube but there is very little room in there....
I remeber riding Tunnel back in 2001 with Lancaster, Collins and Robertson they had like 20LBS on the old WTB Moto DH Laser tires. I was running a bit more.
So even if I went to an 823 hoop I still shouldn't be under 30 PSI?
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There are a lot of people blowing tires off those rims. There are also few injuries in my area that I am aware of. Most have been tubeless but I have also heard of tires coming off those rims with tubes.
Okay so what hoops do I replace them with???
I've 'knock on wood' never blown a tire off, or even burped one on 823s. My biggest problem with tubes was I was constantly getting pinch flats. There's no way I could run 26psi on a tubed setup.
Yeah I have had pretty good luck and guys much much faster than me running tubes. It is super rocky around here and I have had 2-3 pinch flats riding since like 98 using DH tires and DH tube combos....
I like my 823s and they definitely seem to hold up the longest for me....but I am by no means a smooth rider. I've just come to terms that rims are disposable.
On a side note, I just started building my own wheels, so I'm hoping that actually helps add to the life of my wheels, since I actually care about the wheels I'm building. I have a suspicion that part of my issues with wheels have just been crappy builds.
Out of curiosity, I wonder what it is about the flow ex rims that is causing this?
The reason I ask is that I am running the arch ex rims on my 66 trail bike. They are a
light, not very stiff, not very wide trail rim. That said, I have ran nothing but flimsy
trail tires set up tubeless on them and I have never even burped a tire. That includes
enduro races, super d races, short course dh etc.... They seem to hold on to the tire bead
very well. Also, I have always ran tubeless beaded tires on them, so maybe that helps.
But the Flow ex should just be a wider stronger version of my rim.
The reason I ask is that I am running the arch ex rims on my 66 trail bike. They are a
light, not very stiff, not very wide trail rim. That said, I have ran nothing but flimsy
trail tires set up tubeless on them and I have never even burped a tire. That includes
enduro races, super d races, short course dh etc.... They seem to hold on to the tire bead
very well. Also, I have always ran tubeless beaded tires on them, so maybe that helps.
But the Flow ex should just be a wider stronger version of my rim.
If you'll recall, back in the day certain rims hated Maxxis DH tire beads. Remember the weekend at Snowshoe I spent putting my tire back on the rim every time I hit the hard left on the grave?
IMO there is a hole in current rim offerings. I want something wide, lightish and with a UST bead. WTB makes one but my current WTB rims built up really poorly. I'd probably get the DT FR600 in the mean time.
Edit: I'm not a tubeless guy. I'd bite the weight bullet and get 823s if I wanted to run tubeless.
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The way I look at it, you just need more pressure. If you're not tearing the tire of or breaking the bead, there's nothing wrong with the interface. You just don't have enough support for the sidewall.
I can always tell when my pressure is too low because the rear end starts to get squirmy, with it being the most noticeable on hard corners.
I can always tell when my pressure is too low because the rear end starts to get squirmy, with it being the most noticeable on hard corners.
Yikes! I'm 170lbs and run 32-33psi in the rear. I can get away with 28-29 in front. That's for all my different bike/tire combos as the burlier casings see harder hits. I need to run those pressures to eliminate rim dents but a side effect is I've never had rolling or burping problems. I still hear the rims bottoming-out on rocks sometimes but in the last few years I've only had minor dents on my alloy rims and nothing visible on carbon rims so those pressures are pretty dialed in.
I've had problems keeping a DHR2 on rims. You sure it's the rim, not the tire?
30-32 PSI on my trail bike, Stans Flow originals with minion DHF exo folding bead 2.5 front and high roller 2.35 rear.
blown the front tire off tubeless once, with tube again, and ripped the rear off with tube. Also my rear rim bead is badly dinged in two places, within a month or two of building the wheels
This has been my first tubeless setup, and it was great in every respect except for not blowing off the rim. I don't know if its the folding bead or the flows or some disagreement between them, but the lip of the rear rim dinging so easily is pushing me towards building a new set with something else.
Out of curiosity, how well have tires been staying on with ghetto tubeless? Graves running ghetto on his endownhillo bike caught my attention, especially since I'm really cheap and don't give a **** about weight. I just hate changing tubes all the time
blown the front tire off tubeless once, with tube again, and ripped the rear off with tube. Also my rear rim bead is badly dinged in two places, within a month or two of building the wheels
This has been my first tubeless setup, and it was great in every respect except for not blowing off the rim. I don't know if its the folding bead or the flows or some disagreement between them, but the lip of the rear rim dinging so easily is pushing me towards building a new set with something else.
Out of curiosity, how well have tires been staying on with ghetto tubeless? Graves running ghetto on his endownhillo bike caught my attention, especially since I'm really cheap and don't give a **** about weight. I just hate changing tubes all the time
Original Flows, 180 lb rider all geared up
DHF EXOs w/XC tubes - 30/32lbs, no issues outside of flats
Wildgrip'r 2 2.35s tubeless - 30/32lbs, not a single burp
To find the right tire pressure I repeatedly decrease PSI by 2 lbs in each tire until I start to see criss-cross marks on the sidewalls from them folding in hard corners. Once I find that point I just add 2 PSI back in.
DHF EXOs w/XC tubes - 30/32lbs, no issues outside of flats
Wildgrip'r 2 2.35s tubeless - 30/32lbs, not a single burp
To find the right tire pressure I repeatedly decrease PSI by 2 lbs in each tire until I start to see criss-cross marks on the sidewalls from them folding in hard corners. Once I find that point I just add 2 PSI back in.
195#, have to run 32front, 35rear to keep tires and not dent the crap out of rims. not had any issues with any tire that has butyl reinforcement burping.
however, does the EXO has a real butyl reinforced sidewall? if not, that is probably your issue more than anything else...
however, does the EXO has a real butyl reinforced sidewall? if not, that is probably your issue more than anything else...
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I thought RM orthodoxy was that you can't run tubeless for DH, and NoTubes rims are like Swiss cheese and don't hold up to even moderate riding?!
In all seriousness though, I run flow ex tubeless on my trail bike and the moment I try riding serious terrain with non-dh tires on the Flow rims, I wind up ripping them off. I've accepted this and have few problems as a result.
For the record, I'm 215, and ride a Mojo HD here in the north east.
In all seriousness though, I run flow ex tubeless on my trail bike and the moment I try riding serious terrain with non-dh tires on the Flow rims, I wind up ripping them off. I've accepted this and have few problems as a result.
For the record, I'm 215, and ride a Mojo HD here in the north east.
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I run 2.5 DHF on 823s @ 30# and would never go back to tubes on my DH bike.
Amen. Even though I'm at like 32.
I thought PSI was relative as regards tubeless? In other words 32psi tubeless will feel and perform like 26 with a tube... Or something along those lines.
^^ My experience agrees. I run tubeless except for when a newish tire gets damage. So, I don't always tube, but when I do, I run a couple psi lower than an equivalent tubeless setup.
Elephant in the room: every bike pump pressure gauge I've ever used is not precise enough for modern DH racing, imo. So, your pump gauge might say 30 psi, which might read 34 or 27 psi on somebody else's gauge. I replaced the gauge on my pump with one with a useful range (0-60 psi), 1 psi increments, and it is repeatable enough to confidently make 1 psi changes.
Elephant in the room: every bike pump pressure gauge I've ever used is not precise enough for modern DH racing, imo. So, your pump gauge might say 30 psi, which might read 34 or 27 psi on somebody else's gauge. I replaced the gauge on my pump with one with a useful range (0-60 psi), 1 psi increments, and it is repeatable enough to confidently make 1 psi changes.
Yeah, and you remember how Lancaster had an xc tire w/ the bead cutoff inside that DH tire w/ DH tube? His wheel may not have flatted @ 20 psi, but it weighed a good 10 lbs!!!
Fast, loamy, bermed out SC trails will fold tires @ 28 psi just from the uber traction. But you shouldn't have that problem in loose and rocky SLO.
Best bet put a few more psi in there and don't land all sideways brah!
Running the DHR II DH steel bead out back ditched the EXO when they blew off the first time?
Yeah will try more PSI in there. Yeah sometimes he would run the XCODE tube around his DH tube sort of like a tube condom....Yeah, and you remember how Lancaster had an xc tire w/ the bead cutoff inside that DH tire w/ DH tube? His wheel may not have flatted @ 20 psi, but it weighed a good 10 lbs!!!
Fast, loamy, bermed out SC trails will fold tires @ 28 psi just from the uber traction. But you shouldn't have that problem in loose and rocky SLO.
Best bet put a few more psi in there and don't land all sideways brah!
Ianjenn - was the EXO that you blew off one of the new Tubeless Ready versions?
Is there any chance your riding has progressed since you moved to the DHR II, maybe you get more grip and can load it up more than previous tyres?
I found the quicker I rode the more pressure I had to run, I am a similar weight however with a different combo.
I found the quicker I rode the more pressure I had to run, I am a similar weight however with a different combo.