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At least five dead in mall shooting in SLC

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Saw this on the local news...seems there may have been corroborating shootings across the country.

February 12th, 2007 @ 6:54pm
(KSL News) There's been a shooting at the Trolley Square mall tonight.

Multiple gun shots have been fired inside the mall and outside in the parking garage. Officers from several law enforcement agencies are on the scene.

Several witnesses heard multiple gunshots around 6:43 pm.

Initial reports indicated at least six people are involved in various areas of the mall, including the Hard Rock Café, Pottery Barn Kids, and the west garage. We do not know the conditions of any of the reported victims.

We have unconfirmed reports that police believe one shooter is dead, but that there may be another shooter on the second floor of the mall. Officers are sweeping through the building at this time.

The mall has been evacuated, but there may be pockets of people who remain inside, afraid to come out because of the possible second shooter still in the mall.

Two employees of the Williams-Sonoma store, near the southwest corner of Trolley Square, told KSL that they heard shots and breaking glass from the area of the west parking garage. They say they saw a gunman, probably in his 20s and wearing a trench coat, come into the mall from the parking garage.

Another woman says she saw a man with short hair, wearing a coat and carrying a shotgun. She says he looked anxious as he wandered around with the gun.

Robin Snyder, Salt Lake Police Dept.: "We have no indication that there is a second suspect...The suspect has been killed, and he is no longer a threat."

We have a crew there, and we'll have more details as soon as they become available.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=888784

edit: Shooting at Navy Yard in Philadelphia...
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/16684315.htm
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
There's actually a D&D type place across from the Old Spaghetti Factory...

No no, I'm not insinuating anything.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
When are you blokes going to face up to the fact that you've got far too many fire-arms in your country.
We like them. Im not a gun nut, but its not like the gun went around and shot people by itself. And it took a gun to end it. They cancel each other out.
 

BadDNA

hophead
Mar 31, 2006
4,259
232
Living the dream.
Obviously we do not have enough, if someone like Tattoo was there with his own Glock it would have ended much earlier.
Agreed, maybe I'm being a bit idealistic, but I think it might cause a slight pause at least for somebody like that, not knowing which of the people surrounding you is also armed and willing to put one in the base of your skull seconds after your first round goes off.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,642
20,465
Sleazattle
The fact that there are such things as Pottery Barn Kids stores in existence is just as disturbing to me.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,642
20,465
Sleazattle
Agreed, maybe I'm being a bit idealistic, but I think it might cause a slight pause at least for somebody like that, not knowing which of the people surrounding you is also armed and willing to put one in the base of your skull seconds after your first round goes off.
I was just being sarcastic. I own guns but certainly feel they are too easy to get ahold of. It would be interesting to see how the shooters in this story got theirs. It sounds like they were probably kids so they were either the parents or sourced illegaly.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Agreed, maybe I'm being a bit idealistic, but I think it might cause a slight pause at least for somebody like that, not knowing which of the people surrounding you is also armed and willing to put one in the base of your skull seconds after your first round goes off.
Of course said Rambo must be proficient in the Weaver stance to have any chance whatsoever.
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Perhaps all citizens should be equiped with an explosive vest that takes out anyone in a 100 yd radius. Shooting someone would then be far too risky and everyone could happily carry a gun (of limited capability, sniper rifles not allowed).
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
It's not as big a problem as letting your own government rule every possible decision you make.
Nice non-sequitir. I never said the government had to do anything about it. As far as I know that right is constitutionally protected, is it not? No, you guys have to come to the realisation individually. I agree with you on one thing, it's not a problem of guns so much (although you guys have way more than you really need), it's more a problem of culture.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Nice non-sequitir. I never said the government had to do anything about it. As far as I know that right is constitutionally protected, is it not? No, you guys have to come to the realisation individually. I agree with you on one thing, it's not a problem of guns so much (although you guys have way more than you really need), it's more a problem of culture.
Violence is a cultural issue in some areas yes, but the guns are only a convenient vehicle to express that. Its not like because of guns people are violent. There is no ultimate realization that's going to come over violent criminals who could care less if they're in jail, dead or free walking the streets. People who legally buy, own and register their guns typically dont break laws with them.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
I don't think Australians are any more or less violent than Americans are but there were 59 gun murders in Australia in the last year, the lowest figure since records have been kept. I don't doubt for a second that figure would be 10 times what it is if we had as easy access to guns as you guys have. That's the culture that needs changing.
People who legally buy, own and register their guns typically dont break laws with them.
I'd be interested to know what percentage of murders are committed with legal fire-arms (not necessarily with the legal owner doing the shooting) or fire-arms that were originally bought legally but were either lost, stolen or sold but reported lost or stolen.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,642
20,465
Sleazattle
Jacksons post in the GMT

Apparently there was a shooting in Philly last night - 3 people killed before the shooter shot himself. I knew 2 of the people killed. I wasn't close to them so it's not a big deal to me, but my wife is a wreck.
 

Kihaji

Norman Einstein
Jan 18, 2004
398
0
...no but they make these people EXTREMELY efficient. Limit the crazies to bats and knives, they'll kill fewer people.
And how do you propose to do that? Make owning firearms illegal? Something makes me think that a person who has no problems with killing someone will have no problems breaking that law.


The genie is out of the bottle with firearms, restricting thier use will only guarantee that the criminals have them. The best way to try and solve the problem of firearm murders is to solve the problems that cause people to do them in the first place.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
And how do you propose to do that? Make owning firearms illegal? Something makes me think that a person who has no problems with killing someone will have no problems breaking that law.


The genie is out of the bottle with firearms, restricting thier use will only guarantee that the criminals have them. The best way to try and solve the problem of firearm murders is to solve the problems that cause people to do them in the first place.

Well stats from just about every other country in the world would dispute that. See VB's post above.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,642
20,465
Sleazattle
Well stats from just about every other country in the world would dispute that. See VB's post above.
The problem is there are already so many guns in circulation in the US. Even if you stopped all manufacturing/import of new ones it would make little difference as it would be near impossible to remove the existing ones. Banning the manufacture of ammunition could possibly be the only likely solution.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
Perhaps all citizens should be equiped with an explosive vest that takes out anyone in a 100 yd radius. Shooting someone would then be far too risky and everyone could happily carry a gun (of limited capability, sniper rifles not allowed).
That policy already exists in Iraq, where each family can keep an AK47for protection from militias. Pity the vests keep going off anyway.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
I asked Tony. Our beloved leader. Via the wireless chip implanted in my cortex.

Better hope you don't get accidentally tapped into a conference call with W. That'll leave a mark. :twitch:
 

Kihaji

Norman Einstein
Jan 18, 2004
398
0
Well stats from just about every other country in the world would dispute that. See VB's post above.

And every other country in the world isn't the US, they don't have our problems, our situations, our culture. What works elsewhere wont necissarily work here.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
The problem is there are already so many guns in circulation in the US. Even if you stopped all manufacturing/import of new ones it would make little difference as it would be near impossible to remove the existing ones. Banning the manufacture of ammunition could possibly be the only likely solution.
'cept for those re-loading freepers on nugent's ranch

seem to recall when i was in your neighborhood recently signs on the hiway that read "illegal gun? go to jail", or something like that. funny, i always saw those just after leaving d.c. for va
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
And every other country in the world isn't the US, they don't have our problems, our situations, our culture. What works elsewhere wont necissarily work here.
yeah, i just watched american history X last night, too.

glory, glory, hallelujah, the white man marches on...
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,642
20,465
Sleazattle
'cept for those re-loading freepers on nugent's ranch

seem to recall when i was in your neighborhood recently signs on the hiway that read "illegal gun? go to jail", or something like that. funny, i always saw those just after leaving d.c. for va
From what I know Virginia has a 5 year mandatory sentence for illegal guns. The funny thing is 'illegal' doesn't mean much. There is no license required to own a handgun so I assume they mean illegal concealment, which does require a license. I make sure to transport my little .22 Buckmark locked 2 different ways with ammo and clip in different containers. Actually the stupid thing hasn't left the safe in 7 years.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
And every other country in the world isn't the US, they don't have our problems, our situations, our culture. What works elsewhere wont necissarily work here.
That's a piss weak cop-out. Your mob, my mob, none of us are as special, wonderful or unique as we think we are.
I notice how none of you deny that there is a problem but you don't actually want to do anything about it.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
I notice how none of you deny that there is a problem but you don't actually want to do anything about it.
It's obviously a problem but, as westy pointed out, eliminating the problem is near impossible. It would be another War on Drugs.

IMO, our society has more pressing problems which effect a far broader percentage of society: obesity, lack of healthcare, education etc.

I'd have no issue eliminating handguns/military style weapons. Getting rid of hunting weapons is another matter though. While I haven't hunted/fired them in years, I own 6 rifles/shotguns and would be loathe to give up my right to own them. (no, i am not a NRA member/supporter)