[GTIgor]

it might be a stupid question but still interesting to know your opinions

what benefit in time better components (better suspension/lower weight) would make?

i am deciding on buying Mongoose Boot R or Boot R Team (which is kinda hard to afford right now for me) - both bikes at a great price

is it possible to say like 20 or 5 sec per 2-3 minute run? it surely depends on loads of factors like the course itself, skill and many more... but still - will the gap in results will be very significant?

 

[fortenndu]

I have the boot'r team and love it, I'm pretty serious about racing and the components work great for me with a few minor changes. Do what you can afford, the frames are exactly the same.

 

[GTIgor]

I have the boot'r team and love it, I'm pretty serious about racing and the components work great for me with a few minor changes. Do what you can afford, the frames are exactly the same.

its nice you like the bike - i read lots of positive reviews on it
i like all the components on ther Team too, the only thing i would do - replace Elixirs with Codes and may be some cockpit tweaking

but the situation is i can afford R just ok, and to afford R Team i`ll have to rip my ass off - does it worth it?

 

[fortenndu]

its nice you like the bike - i read lots of positive reviews on it
i like all the components on ther Team too, the only thing i would do - replace Elixirs with Codes and may be some cockpit tweaking

but the situation is i can afford R just ok, and to afford R Team i`ll have to rip my ass off - does it worth it?

Stop, the elixirs are 143290432074340394349374 times better then codes. Best brakes on the market. I think it's worth it, the suspension is way better.

 

[NY_Star]

I think that at the end of a race you have to ask your self. Did you run out of money or talent?

 

[Sghost]

The Boot R looks like it will do you well.

 

[marshalolson]

better to have enough gas/entry fees/ etc money than a sick bike you can't really afford.

things that make the most difference:

suspension, brakes, wheels/tires

if you have good stuff on all of those, you have no excuses!


looking at the stock boot'r, the rcv and roco shocks both feel nice, the sealed bearing hubs will hold up fine, the only thing i personally would ditch is the strokers for elixer's or something.

 

[boogenman]

You are probably not going to know the difference between the 2 bikes.


Boogenmans #1 upgrade that is worth the $$$$....SRAM X0 shifter

 

[Jettj45]

Stop, the elixirs are 143290432074340394349374 times better then codes. Best brakes on the market. I think it's worth it, the suspension is way better.

The elixirs are more powerful than codes???

 

[fortenndu]

The elixirs are more powerful than codes???

Same power with more and better adjustment.

 

[boogenman]

Same power with more and better adjustment.

It is called modulation....grom

 

[Jettj45]

Same power with more and better adjustment.

How does it have the same power with half the pistons?

 

[fortenndu]

How does it have the same power with half the pistons?

Magic...

 

[fortenndu]

It is called modulation....grom

homo, the pad adjustment and lever reach adjustment is so easy to use.

 

[Jettj45]

Magic...

Aka there not more powerful than codes therefore not better than codes unless you weigh modulation over power.

 

[fortenndu]

Aka there not more powerful than codes therefore not better than codes unless you weigh modulation over power.

AKA I've ridden both and the elixirs have more stopping power and better modulation.

 

[Lelandjt]

Better components and lighter weight won't shave time on their own but they will make the bike feel better. A sweeter feeling ride should give you the confidence to lay off the brakes more and lighter weight should have you sprinting harder in the last corners.

 

[GTIgor]

AKA I've ridden both and the elixirs have more stopping power and better modulation.

i cant agree mate - i have elixirs on my prophet - they are sick! may be the best brakes i tried (at least at their price, for example modern formulas work really great too but are much more expensive) but i cant tell they are super powerfull - i`ve been doing with them seriuos AM and FR rides with lots of height drop and they berely hold up (almost starting to boil - the lever became a little stiffer and with less travel - but on 185mm dics). I also had luck riding about a week of full on DH/FR on a glory with Codes - they were awesome - it was my first downhill riding without arm pumping, no thoughts like "will i have strengh to slow down fast before next corner or chute"... its a real shame to slow down because of arm pump...

Thank you guys! I almost decided to go Boot R and save some money for travelling to races and some additional gear.

 

[Steve M]

Gear makes little difference. Going from a 6" travel Reign X or something, to the world's "best" bike, might save you like 3 seconds a minute. Get some good tyres and set your cockpit and suspension up the way you like it, and pretty much any bike is freaking fast. The wankery perpetuated by myself and others like me doesn't translate to huge time differences on the trail.

 

[- seb]

Yeah, there will be a time difference, but not much. Very hard to quanitify for DH. Road stuff is quite interesting, as every aero bit you buy comes with claims like "1 second quicker per kilometre" as they've been able to do a simple wind-tunnel test. Not so for DH, too many variables. Better suspension & brakes will definitely enable you to go quicker. Lighter parts may also help you go quicker. Difference between the two builds, in reality? Probably a handful of seconds on a full run, at most.

 

[norbar]

I think besides better tires and suspension giving you more traction (which is still a very small gain) the best what better parts do to your riding (better for you not more expensive) is boost your confidence. If the bike feels better you will be more confident and ride more agressive. In some cases it's also not what is better but what is more suited for the trail you are currently using.

 

[- seb]

Definitely, confidence is a huge part. Also, for me, I'm very lazy. Once my bike is as "perfect" as I can get it, then I have no excuses not to do well. Cunningly, I use THAT as an excuse to give me a good reason to spend lots of money on my bike, because once it's "perfect" I ride/train a lot more, as I know my bike is literally capable of winning world cups. I've no excuse, I HAVE to improve and do well to justify the bike I'm riding.

Stupid isn't it, especially since a rider like Sam Hill would give winning a world cup a damn good shot on ANY bike!

 

[GTIgor]

Yeah, there will be a time difference, but not much. Very hard to quanitify for DH. Road stuff is quite interesting, as every aero bit you buy comes with claims like "1 second quicker per kilometre" as they've been able to do a simple wind-tunnel test. Not so for DH, too many variables. Better suspension & brakes will definitely enable you to go quicker. Lighter parts may also help you go quicker. Difference between the two builds, in reality? Probably a handful of seconds on a full run, at most.

i am still frustrated... a gandfull of seconds can be really significant - like several positions

i`d like to clear things out a bit - i race pretty well in russia, taking into account our fastest riders have never ever managed to qualify for WCs

lately i did a couple of miniDH races on my prophet and both times got in top 10 out of 100 riders... i also raced my prophet on a full on DH race and got 14th out of 30-40 racers (95% of them where of long travel DH/FR bikes), so i`m not new to racing and going to compete for podium - and don`t wanna loose like 10 sec a run because of bike

 

[norbar]

You won't loose that much because of the quality of parts. 10s differance is almost impossible to gain by gear differances. It's a gigantic margin, especialy on a 2-3min run as you stated before. You will be faster just by going to a full on dh rig. If you have the cash go for the better bike for sure as it has some profits but the lower lever boot'r for sure won't slow you down as much as you think. You could gain more if you learned how to setup your bike for the race (correct tires, tire pressures, adjusting suspension and maybe cockpit for the best body position on the bike).

 

[GTIgor]

You won't loose that much because of the quality of parts. 10s differance is almost impossible to gain by gear differances. It's a gigantic margin, especialy on a 2-3min run as you stated before. You will be faster just by going to a full on dh rig. If you have the cash go for the better bike for sure as it has some profits but the lower lever boot'r for sure won't slow you down as much as you think. You could gain more if you learned how to setup your bike for the race (correct tires, tire pressures, adjusting suspension and maybe cockpit for the best body position on the bike).

oh thank you a lot - you made it clear! my soul is calm now

 

[- seb]

i am still frustrated... a gandfull of seconds can be really significant - like several positions

i`d like to clear things out a bit - i race pretty well in russia, taking into account our fastest riders have never ever managed to qualify for WCs

lately i did a couple of miniDH races on my prophet and both times got in top 10 out of 100 riders... i also raced my prophet on a full on DH race and got 14th out of 30-40 racers (95% of them where of long travel DH/FR bikes), so i`m not new to racing and going to compete for podium - and don`t wanna loose like 10 sec a run because of bike

If you had really poor suspension, and brakes that didn't work effectively, that could cost you a good few seconds. Assuming the cheaper parts still work pretty well, then I doubt if the difference would be more than a second or two, if that. Obviously you want to be braking as little as possible, but if better brakes don't heat up as much, and let you brake later into every corner on the track, then all those little bits WILL add up.

Basically, buy the best you can afford, to an extent. It's not worth working twice as hard to get the money you need to afford the best - you'd be better off buying what you can afford without working any harder, and then spend that time training!

PS racing in Russia? Link to any photos/vids? Always cool to hear about these far-flung corners of the world!

 

[GTIgor]

If you had really poor suspension, and brakes that didn't work effectively, that could cost you a good few seconds. Assuming the cheaper parts still work pretty well, then I doubt if the difference would be more than a second or two, if that. Obviously you want to be braking as little as possible, but if better brakes don't heat up as much, and let you brake later into every corner on the track, then all those little bits WILL add up.

Basically, buy the best you can afford, to an extent. It's not worth working twice as hard to get the money you need to afford the best - you'd be better off buying what you can afford without working any harder, and then spend that time training!

PS racing in Russia? Link to any photos/vids? Always cool to hear about these far-flung corners of the world!

here is the vid:
National Cup - mnt Cheget (a fav mountain among all advanced russian and many european skiers - very steep)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="355"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LmRDnNIY_d4&hl=en"> </param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"> </param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LmRDnNIY_d4&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"> </embed> </object>

PS the dog is fine

 

[JRogers]

Go with the cheaper one if the more expensive one is a stretch for you. Spend the extra money to fix things, upgrade when necessary and take a trip somewhere. You'll be happier with a lot of great riding on a mid-level bike than looking at a top of the line one in your basement (exaggeration, but you get the point).

And looking at the spec of the bikes, the regular Boot'r is very nice. The only thing I'd have some concern over is the fork. Not sure how lower-end marzocchi DH forks are now, but they haven't been the greatest thing previously. I'm sure it'd be decent at least. Hell, my fork sucks, but I have fun on it.

 

[William42]

I spent oodles of money building a top of the line race bike, which is pretty sweet. I like it alot. But Now that I have it, I've realized it doesn't really make a difference in terms of speed/skill. I have more fun on it, it does what I want it to better, but its really not a huge deal. I always thought "maybe if I had this part, I'd be faster/have more fun" until I got all of them, and realized I don't give a fyck, I just like riding my bike.

Expensive stuff is cool, and its really easy to get swept up and buy tons of sh1t you don't need especially if you hang out on these forums or all your friends have nice stuff, but once you get it all you realize how little it matters. Good geometry is important, but past that, meh, don't really care (from a guy with a CCDB and boxxer WC on his bike).

I think the regular will be fine, if you have to work your ass off for it, you're going to give up money in other areas (like me) and eat top raman for a few months (gross!). Get the regular

 

[boogenman]

homo, the pad adjustment and lever reach adjustment is so easy to use.

you have no proof that I am a homo.

 

[jonKranked]

my 2.5 thoughts on this:

#1 - A lighter bike won't make you faster, it will just make you less tired less quickly. It requires (marginally) more energy to maneuver a heavy bike, tiring you out more quickly than a bike that is a few lbs/kgs lighter.

#2 - RELIABLE components make a difference. Top of the line parts are worthless if you're distracted during a race run worrying about breaking something. I run x.7 deraillers because I find them to be very reliable and a good price point, so I don't worry about them when I ride. That's not to say I plow through rocks haphazardly asking for it to break, but its one less thing on my mind while riding, so I can focus on my race run.

#2.5 - Like anything, there's a fine line with this between importance and obsessive. I think we all know at least one person who would rather buy ultralight parts so they can jerk off to their bike on a scale than actually go out and ride it.

 

[- seb]

#2.5 - Like anything, there's a fine line with this between importance and obsessive. I think we all know at least one person who would rather buy ultralight parts so they can jerk off to their bike on a scale than actually go out and ride it.

Oi!!

I do both, that's OK

 

[norbar]

my 2.5 thoughts on this:

#1 - A lighter bike won't make you faster, it will just make you less tired less quickly. It requires (marginally) more energy to maneuver a heavy bike, tiring you out more quickly than a bike that is a few lbs/kgs lighter.

A weight weenie would also add that it allows you to change direction/lines faster but it's rather the case of big weight differances and the differancec is so small it's in most cases unnoticable (well unless you run a 60lb brick rig)

 

[stinky6]

If the geometry of the bike is good, your golden. Suspension, tires and brakes also make a difference. But you don't need top of the line stuff, as long as its not crap you will ride the same. I think bars, grips and pedals that you like are a big. Those three parts can make a huge difference in how comfortable you are and for some people will also make them noticeably faster. For example I lowered my bars on my trail bike and noticed a big difference in cornering, and corning is what will win or lose a race. Also just riding a lot and being fit will make a big difference, but a lot of guys have the money and not the time so they get the highest end stuff for their bike and are still slow.

 

[juk_lano]

I dunno if you have bought the bike yet but if you purchase the regular Boot'r, you'll have money left over towards getting the new 2010 Boxxer...

 

[Leppah]

All i look for in a DH bike is #1 size (I need a large). #2. Suspension. I just want a bike that has a good fork and shock. #3. Brakes. I'm a heavy 210 without any gear on. Brakes are important when you're a lunker.

All of the rest of the stuff is upgradeable and replaceable. You can upgrade or replace whenever you can afford it.

I bought a 3 month old Stab Deluxe from a friend a few years ago. It was just the base model. Throughout two seasons i upgraded the fork to a better 888, the rear shock to a Roco that was PUSHED, and upgraded brakes to the CODES. Now i'm good and i didn't go broke all in one year.

All of that high end stuff is good stuff. But if you're like me, you could be on the best bike in the world and still not be the fastest guy on the mountain.

The worst rider in the world could be on the best bike in the world and still be the worst biker. A lot of it comes to your skills and your physical ability.

 

[Sandwich]

Gear makes little difference. Going from a 6" travel Reign X or something, to the world's "best" bike, might save you like 3 seconds a minute. Get some good tyres and set your cockpit and suspension up the way you like it, and pretty much any bike is freaking fast. The wankery perpetuated by myself and others like me doesn't translate to huge time differences on the trail.

Gonna have to disagree with you here. I still think gear makes a big difference. For a top level racer/rider, then I'll agree, but for a less skilled rider especially, I think confident brakes and suspension, as well as a good fitting bike, can improve their times dramatically. Sure, put Minaar or any of the other wunder-riders on a tricycle and they'll still beat us down a hill, but for amatuer level riders, being able to stop, brake, turn, and ride comfortably are essential to getting faster. Not everything is essential, I'll agree, like I could be bothered less with how many clicks of low-speed compression is best for x model of bike, or how much on a % scale anti-squat my bike has, but if I can pedal it well, reliably, and if the suspension works to not buck or effectively smooth out the moguls, then I know I can go faster....but I'm not a top level rider. In fact, this year I'm trying to lighten and improve the components on my bike so that I can go faster. I can practically promise you that by losing 3 lbs off my fork, 2 lbs of rotating weight, having brakes that work, and a strong, reliable drivetrain, I'll shed near-minutes off my times.

As for the difference between the two bikes, the Boot'r is a bike that will allow you to ride fast, but the team may be too much bike for you...which could be good for you to grow into. The main differences I see are the compression adjustability on the suspension, the "trail" designated brakes, and that's about it. The rest of the components are somewhat similar, to the degree they'll make no difference to a blindfolded rider...you know what I mean. If you're just beginning, you probably won't know how to tune your suspension to perform maximally, but in time you will want that feature.

In the end, my advice would be to spend less on the regular version, and upgrade it as parts fail or you see fit. The extra cash you save can be spent on safety gear and apparel, which can have a pretty big impact on your riding too. Having knee pads that don't slip is arguably the greatest thing in the world!

 

[JRogers]

If the geometry of the bike is good, your golden. Suspension, tires and brakes also make a difference. But you don't need top of the line stuff, as long as its not crap you will ride the same. I think bars, grips and pedals that you like are a big. Those three parts can make a huge difference in how comfortable you are and for some people will also make them noticeably faster. For example I lowered my bars on my trail bike and noticed a big difference in cornering, and corning is what will win or lose a race. Also just riding a lot and being fit will make a big difference, but a lot of guys have the money and not the time so they get the highest end stuff for their bike and are still slow.

True on all points. Geo is key and can make up for other shortcomings. Bars, pedals, etc are important but that has little to do with how much they cost- more about correct setup and personal preference.

For me, tires are important. I usually buy at least one nice set that I don't skimp on for the season. Been on Maxxis 3Cs for the last few seasons. There are other good tires out there, but I find that tires make a big difference in ride quality and performance. More than other places you could spend your money, anyway.

 

[Yukonrider]

New parts won't by themselves make your time better, but they will allow you to hit that shift super quickly, or allow you to brake a few seconds later, or smooth out that rock garden, and break less.
But in the end it comes down to the rider being able to utilize the advantages the good components gives them.

 

[norbar]

Sandwitch you have some point but I doubt that you can get near minutes by even great weight losses. Even half a minute on gear is the differance between middle of the pack and podium on a 2-3m race. It's good to have a bike that gives you more confidence but that's not allways about the more expensive parts. Sometimes it's better tu buy the same frame with cheaper parts and use the leftover money for bike customisation. Ie. Getting 3 sets of tires, correct springs, cockpit that suits your preffered body position, going to spd if you feel like, changing the chainring size etc. If you can also go lighter is good but let's not do it at any cost. You pay to much and you have no cash for spare parts and tires as well as training trips (and riding other spots than your local gives you much much more than any gear change). You just can't go to extremes in any case. Plus you can make very much on your own if you know what are you doing. (ie. tuning susp or brakes[with high end oil and pads]). Simply buy smart, not expensive