[dG video]

So I have had my Juicy 7's for a season and a 1/4 now. They have been pretty good except for this season they seem to be acting up. They somehow got contaminated, so I replaced the pads, cleaned the rotors and had them bleed at the SRAM tent at Mt. Snow. Yet they are still lacking power, I can't seem to get these brakes running properly again. They feel very spongey and I can't even lock up the rear wheel. So I am thinking about replacing my brakes and just looking at my options, heres what I have experienced so far:

Juicy's : Work well when set up right. Difficult to work on though.

Hayes : My mags in 2004 were horrible, I went through 2 master cylinders, and popped countless number of levers out. But they were pretty easy to work on, easy to get parts for.

Hope : I had the M6 Ti front and M4 rear set up last year, they were powerful but seemed to lose power over the season. Parts arent very easy to get but they are easy to work on.

Shimano : Never tried.

Formula : A friend just got some and they feel pretty good.

Magura : Have heard good things but seem pricey.

Now...I want advice from people with experience from a variety of brakes. Not some kid who is going to recommend the parts they have. Do you think the Juicy's are worth trying to fix or should I ditch them and try something new, Ive just about had it with brakes! :mumble:

Thanks, Dan

 

[jrfor0]

get the Magura Gustav's. they are simply the best. i am on my second season on them and they have been amazing. well worth the extra money.

 

[Transcend]

Saint

 

[LukeD]

just dont use em

j/k i had to be the one to say it.

 

[Sir_Crackien]

i love my shimano brakes. they have felt nice for the place 4 years now and have required practally no maintaince

 

[blue]

Saint

What sets the Saint brakes apart from say, XTs?

J/w, as I had a set of 760 XTs that faded like mofos on long downhills all the time.

 

[stgil888]

If you get a set of Hayes mags set up right (aftermarket levers, pads, lines, maybe even rotors) they can be great. Everyone has parts for them, and they're just so simple. I haven't had any mechanical issues with a set I've been running since 2002. I don't know if you are into cars, but I think an analogy could be:

Hayes mags are to Avid Codes/Magura Gustav

as '95 BMW M3 is to Porsche Carrera

The Mags start out as an older design. They're sound in concept, but some of the parts are really lagging. However, once you upgrade the levers (I like GRC's) lines (Goodridge) pads (Galfer) and put in some good set up time (a good bleed with quality DOT fluid) they can easily match the performance of a higher-end brake. However, just like a tuner car, a set of tricked-out Hayes mags costs basically as much as the higher-end product did to start with. I've been tempted to 'upgrade' to Magura Gustavs for a couple of seasons now, but I keep sticking with the Hayes because they have been so reliable and they are ubiquitous. Until last year (moreso this year) everyone used Hayes mags where I ride. It was really rare to see a set of Hope M4s or Magura Gustavs. When bikes started coming with OEM low-end Hayes brakes like Sole's and HFX 9's, people got turned off of Hayes and started using other manufacturers' products. If you still have that set of Hayes Mags sitting around, I'd give them a shot. I'm over 200 lbs and only lift-assisted trails. I drag my brakes and don't give them too much time to cool off and I have had really good results with my Hayes.

That said, I wouldn't mind if you got some Maguras as long as you posted pictures of them on RM. The Gustavs make any bike look boss.

 

[Transcend]

If you get a set of Hayes mags set up right (aftermarket levers, pads, lines, maybe even rotors) they can be great. Everyone has parts for them, and they're just so simple.

So he should buy new brakes, and then replace every part on them to make them acceptable?

 

[Bicyclist]

I hate my Juicys, my Hayes are decent, and I love Formulas and Saints.

Saints are so easy to work on and super powerful with excellent modulation. I've never worked on Formulas, just tried them briefly.

I would definately recommend Saints.

 

[LukeD]

So he should buy new brakes, and then replace every part on them to make them acceptable?

i think he mentioned...

If you still have that set of Hayes Mags sitting around, I'd give them a shot.

as far as i'm concerned everything needs to be tweaked...nothing comes from the factory perfect. hell i was just working on a 911 GT3 cup car and the first thing they did was rip out the factory race brakes from porsche and upgrade the fronts to some fancy $20k carbon things and new lines. first thing i did on my hayes was change to different lines and pads too.

in terms of saints...i'd definitely love to try them out someday. i have an XT on my hardtail that i brought back from the dead with goodridge lines and new pads and it is impressive.

 

[dG video]

Ohh, I might add I do not like modulation. I like the pull and lock feel....

 

[konastab01]

Just go saints,So easy to work on and very reliable thats why I have 3 sets

 

[Bicyclist]

Ohh, I might add I do not like modulation. I like the pull and lock feel....

The reason I say Saints have modulation is that they aren't on/off. They have ridiculous power, though. So basically, you can pull and lock them, but at the very beginning they won't lock up. Seriously, try a pair.

 

[bballe336]

Ohh, I might add I do not like modulation. I like the pull and lock feel....

You can set up most brakes to do that. It's very easy to make mags do that.

 

[intensified]

wing it with what you got and get the o7 sram that they will have out by september.

 

[konastab01]

Hes looking for brakes not gears

 

[Transcend]

Sram owns avid.

 

[trust4130]

I love my Gustav's. However, is it me or does it seem like you have to take the caliper off of the floating mount, and then clean and lubricate the posts after every ride to assure drag free performance?

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Every pair of saints i have ridden have been dreamy, i have a set in a box sitting right here waiting for my new frame .

 

[Sandwich]

how about the gatorbrake 8 pistons?

 

[DHracer1067]

that rotor has too many holes

 

[Sandwich]

some might say it doesn't have enough holes (nicolai)

 

[Bicyclist]

that rotor has too many holes

Oh, and now you're an engineer? You know what the optimum balance between rigidity and ventilation is on a rotor? No, you don't know? Well thanks anyways for your comment, it's really helpful.

 

[LukeD]

Oh, and now you're an engineer? You know what the optimum balance between rigidity and ventilation is on a rotor? No, you don't know? Well thanks anyways for your comment, it's really helpful.

lol wow u r on a roll. 2nd thread in a row in which u have shot someone down. the sunday one just above u did the same thing.

 

[konarider98]

Hayes mags are to Avid Codes/Magura Gustav

as '95 BMW M3 is to Porsche Carrera

i love that analogy, i say mags are your best bet. something that has alot of power, like an M3

 

[snoopz666]

so what noone like hope anymore? ive ran mine for almost 2 seasons now and havent had a problem yet... imo the easiest brake on the market to bleed.

 

[bballe336]

Oh, and now you're an engineer? You know what the optimum balance between rigidity and ventilation is on a rotor? No, you don't know? Well thanks anyways for your comment, it's really helpful.

By the looks it has very little braking surface. BTW good job being an ass.

 

[biker3]

Wait, I don't understand, you said "Hayes and Hopes are easy to work on" and "My avids have been a bitch to work on". I've found the complete opposite of that in my experience. Juicy's have been nothing but good to me as a racer and a wannabe mechanic/shop employee.

 

[Bicyclist]

By the looks it has very little braking surface.

And I wonder why there are 8 pistons for increased surface area?

 

[Li'l Dave]

I hated my Gustavs, the levers feel like garbage, were rediculously expensive, and they will never stop dragging at least a little bit. They are strong and modulate well, but feel like general poo. The Saints seem really good, bled a set today without even using the special Shimano bleed tool, felt super stiff and comfy. Hayes have parts everywhere, but seem to be pretty mediocre is most respects, not great at anything, but pretty good at everything. I like my current Juicys, but they are a pain to work on, and never seem right after a bleed job. I want to try the new Avid Code brakes, or a set of Saints on my own bike, and am scepticle of any Formula product. I would say bleed the Avids again for now, and try out everything on someone elses bike and see how they feel.

 

[konastab01]

Sram owns avid.

It was late,and I didnt read it properly
Honest

 

[dG video]

I hated my Gustavs, the levers feel like garbage, were rediculously expensive, and they will never stop dragging at least a little bit. They are strong and modulate well, but feel like general poo. The Saints seem really good, bled a set today without even using the special Shimano bleed tool, felt super stiff and comfy. Hayes have parts everywhere, but seem to be pretty mediocre is most respects, not great at anything, but pretty good at everything. I like my current Juicys, but they are a pain to work on, and never seem right after a bleed job. I want to try the new Avid Code brakes, or a set of Saints on my own bike, and am scepticle of any Formula product. I would say bleed the Avids again for now, and try out everything on someone elses bike and see how they feel.

The brakes were just bleed at the Sram tent at the Mt. Snow national...

 

[Polandspring88]

How about replacing the lines?

 

[jackalope]

Magura Louise...Pretty light and have unreal stopping power, but they do have nice modulation; so if you don't like that, then just squeeze a little harder and they'll lock up for ya

Plus, they have a new reservoir design coming out, so you could prolly find a set of last years on e-bay for a pretty good deal (still in the box too)...

Anyway, I've run Louise's for awhile now, and they're hands down the best brake I have used...Seemingly fade free and they've significantly reduced arm pump (to almost nothing really)...I also have a bike with Mags on them and they feel great too, but they've got Goodridge lines and they can be somewhat tempermental to bleed...So if you have the Mags already, I'd say maybe get some hopped up lines and try to get a good bleed on them, then try'em out for awhile...The Mags seem more off & on then other brakes in my experience...

But if you want some new brakes altogether, go with the teutonic bitch...

 

[bballe336]

And I wonder why there are 8 pistons for increased surface area?

It looks about the same size caliper wise as a gustav. The gustav rotors still aren't nearly as swiss cheesed as those things.

 

[rigidhack]

I think your best bet is probably to upgrade lines and pads on you older Hayes. I've been really happy with my Mags so far - I'm still getting used to them, but no complaints. They modulate well enough for me and they sure do stop me well (sometimes TOO well).

 

[Li'l Dave]

I know they were just bled, I've had issues with Hayes specifically bleeding brakes at races and rushing through them too fast. Sometimes things aren't done correctly when there are 20 other bikes that have to have both brakes bled in the next 2 hours.

 

[SylentK]

I've been running Juicey 7's for about 1.75 years. I just got them bled for the first time as they were definitely feeling sponge-erific. They still don't feel as rock solid as my newer Juicy Carbons, though. I'm a little worried as you are. Perhaps the lines/hoses break down after use and abuse? You wanna be the guinnea pig and see if new hoses do the trick? ;-)

 

[dG video]

I think I have found someone to buy my Juicy's. So I now have around $400 to spend on new brakes, thinking either Hopes or Saints.

 

[maxyedor]

Given those two options I would go with Saints. Hopes are just as good IMHO but the Saints are a mineral oil brake, and thus bleeding them is a non toxic, no paint eating experience. I would get the Magura Louise over either of those two options, I own 3 soon to be 5 pairs, but if those are the options you are looking at go for the Saints, they are quite good. Also a lot of shops sell the Saint levers for more that the Xt levers, they are exactly the same just differen colors, so you may be able to save a few bucks there.