BUY HOPE!!!!!
Brakes that don't suck?
- Thread starter T-Pirate
- Start date
welcome to the wonderfull world of d.h.ing in the south.T-Pirate said:
if you can't be self sufficiant.
you're at the mercy of everything that you've described in this and your preceding posts.
brakes and the bleeding of them, aren't really a vodoo science.
but it will take a friend to help make the job much easier.
if you by a brakeset and assemble and bleed them yourself, then you'll be one step ahead of the game when you need to tune or repair them.
all it takes is patience.patience.patience.
i personally have been running hayes for years now. without any trouble at all.
but i'm going to be switching to shimano as soon as i can afford them.
we're also thinking about having an extra set on hand at the races.
that way if there's any trouble, all you'll have to do is swap them out and fix them later.
good brakes and proper adjustment are just about the most important thing in allowing you to let that bike go and haul @$$.
the time and $$$ you spend will be well worth it.
The shimanos are nice, but they lack the power of the Gustav. I have run the shimano/grimeca 4 and 6 piston brakes with allot of luck, however, the Grimecas are hard to get parts for and the shimano levers can be pricey. The best brake out there now are the Gustav, not only does the power rock but they are easy to work on and over built. I have heard of people running them for up to 5 years.
Absolutely, it's a pain but its worth it for some of the lesser known killer riding areas we have. I actually had someone in Colorado ask me "isn't there some killer shuttle spot down there in TN or something?". The word is out my man, now I can't wait to get some riding in up there.dhbuilder said:
I'll learn to fix my own brakes soon enough, that will be a valuable asset. (By the way, motomike, that means I'm bringing a 12er to your apartment next month and you're teaching me while we pound 'em.)
<cough> Magura Louise <cough>
Not the easiest brakes to find parts for, but just get an extra set of pads and you should be set for awhile...Light, great modulation, and brutal power (albeit, not up to the Gustav standard)...Yay for German stoppers!
Not the easiest brakes to find parts for, but just get an extra set of pads and you should be set for awhile...Light, great modulation, and brutal power (albeit, not up to the Gustav standard)...Yay for German stoppers!
I couldn't be more unhappy with my Juicy 7s. They feel like garbage, they constantly need bleeding, and occasionally they will completely lose all power, forcing me to pump them for about 5 minutes and praying that the power comes back.
On a lighter note, I tried Saints the other day, and was amazed. Simple design, easy to bleed, great power and modulation. My mind is made up on what to get next season.
On a lighter note, I tried Saints the other day, and was amazed. Simple design, easy to bleed, great power and modulation. My mind is made up on what to get next season.
I've heard great things about the Gustavs, but haven't ridden them personally. The only thing that would be an issue is the weight, cost and the fact that the adaptors are super expensive and hard to find.
Gustavs do not suck.
I have had a Juicy 5 as my front brake for about 50 days of DHing and it works pretty damn well. Occaisionally I get the dying turkey sound, but it isn't that often. In the rain, they make no more noise than normal. They haven't needed a bleed yet and they have never lost power. I am still on my first set of pads.
I have had a Juicy 5 as my front brake for about 50 days of DHing and it works pretty damn well. Occaisionally I get the dying turkey sound, but it isn't that often. In the rain, they make no more noise than normal. They haven't needed a bleed yet and they have never lost power. I am still on my first set of pads.
this no feel thing in the lever is usually related to the piston when it adjusts for brake pad wear. without bleeding you can CLEAN around the piston and push it in this will reseat and allow the piston to go back to the proper position once you let go of the lever
I run Juicy 7s on my DH bike and 4x bike.
A lot of my friends run m on their DH race bikes and everyone, including me, is very happy with them.
Seriously, if your juicy's arent working right, you are probably doing something wrong.
A lot of my friends run m on their DH race bikes and everyone, including me, is very happy with them.
Seriously, if your juicy's arent working right, you are probably doing something wrong.
I don't think I'm doing something wrong. Speedgoat installed them, and they felt like crap out of the box. I lost power and had to pump them to get it back on one of my first rides before they were touched. It still happens to this day, although its slightly better than before thanks to bleeds, etc.Kevin said:
Every part is going to have its support group. Just because you and your friends don't have problems with a product, doesn't mean its 100% reliable. Next time don't be so quick to blame the owner.
I vote for Maguras. I don't like the Gustaves because they are just too powerfull and too expensive. The Louise Fr is a great brake, still more power than I want but they are very managable. I like to soak my pads in WD-40 for a couple minutes before I race so I have less tendency to skid through corners. They are also piss light.
The Shimanos are my second choice, with Hayes Mags in a distant third.
The Shimanos are my second choice, with Hayes Mags in a distant third.
Man im going to blame the owner, if speed goat installed them and they suck, then they installed them wrong...The brakes simply work, I have wrenched on countless pairs of juicy 7's 5's and Carbons all of which had incredible power. Get someone who knows how to bleed a brake correctly to do the work...TheFlow said:
Whatever, my Juicys have not worked well either.
The 5s especially suck because in the heat, the fluid expands and almost locks up the brake, and you can't adjust the pad contact point.
Shimanos have always worked better for me, and I really like my Hayes 9s.
The 5s especially suck because in the heat, the fluid expands and almost locks up the brake, and you can't adjust the pad contact point.
Shimanos have always worked better for me, and I really like my Hayes 9s.
lets put it this way i'm very picky about my brakes and the juices are pretty far down my list. i have seen more than one set completely give out and the lever feel is less the firm by my standards.
I've got Juicy's and like them fine. That said, based on having ridden the same course back to back on my brakes and a buddies, I have to add my voice to those that are recommending the magura louise frs...light, powerful, fade free...my next brakes for sure.
Speedgoat installed them, they worked like crap out of the box. I had a buddy who was wrenched at pro level bleed them, and I did it myself a few times. As I said, this improved performance, but they still leave something to be desired. I've had Hopes, Hayes, and Magura before the Juicys, and the Juicys by far have been the least impressive. Is it possible that three different people bleeding these brakes all have made errors? Perhaps. Is it more likely I happened to get a set that had more substantial problems, etc? Yes.manhattanprjkt83 said:
I don't doubt the fact that many sets out there work flawlessly. I do find it absolutely hilarious how some people are so blind to believe that every product is made equally. Just because yours function properly, it doesn't mean that every pair does. If your friend's Honda has engine problems, and your Honda works perfectly, do you tell him it was his fault the car broke down and that Hondas are perfect?
Obviously other people have had problems with Juicys as well. I was simply stating my own experience. I didn't think I'd be jumped on, but have at it if you think you need to be heard.
TheFlow said:
bingo. Everyone I've known who's had juicys, including myself. Loved them. Only "problem" is the shuttering, which everyone has experienced. Only with wavy polygon rotors though. Are you guys letting them brake in properly? Cause they do take an unreasonably long time for that i guess.Kevin said:
I have read a lot of negative reviews about grimeca brakes,but went ahead and bought some anyway (system8),and think they are great.I really think most brakes can be made to work well if one takes the time to learn about them , and how to work on them themselves,the grimecas are really just a mini motorcycle caliper and master cylinder,and the system 8 is the one that shimano XT is based upon for what that's worth.
If a guy at a bike shop knows nothing about working on car brakes,there is absolutely no way he could relate to hydraulic bike brakes,THEY ARE THE SAME...PERIOD,it is very simple stuff since every dumbass driving a car needs to use them without giving them any more thought than the bicyclist he is passing along the road.
Trident sports.com has a pretty good selection of parts for grimeca brakes,(No I am not stumping for them),I found this through research,the only problem is that their importer is not carrying them for much longer supposedly.
The biggest issue I see when using these brakes is that they make a little noise when they are wet,but they still work great in the worst conditions,and then still work in worse conditions than that,but you have to maintain them,this is what a lot of people do not do I think,nothing just works forever without maintenance.
Operating a machine of any kind without knowing at least a little about it is just plain stupid,if you rely on some guy in a bike shop to do all of you work,maybe you should just walk,money can't buy you love,the people you pay to do your work don't really care...
I also use grimecas because every other schmoe in the world uses the current poser avant garde set-up,go ahead and throw your money away to impress someone who could care less,it's your bank account.
The grimecas work flawlessly,I've been stomping on em for 6 months and havent had to bleed em yet or anything,50 to 70 miles per day (6 Hours),and not a whimper.
The only problem I have had with them is that they work so good that suspension dive is a problem,gotta stop forgetting that 6" of front travel still can't absorb dumb tired fumble-finger gorilla grip grab,that's what helmets are for,but who likes to crash?.
If a guy at a bike shop knows nothing about working on car brakes,there is absolutely no way he could relate to hydraulic bike brakes,THEY ARE THE SAME...PERIOD,it is very simple stuff since every dumbass driving a car needs to use them without giving them any more thought than the bicyclist he is passing along the road.
Trident sports.com has a pretty good selection of parts for grimeca brakes,(No I am not stumping for them),I found this through research,the only problem is that their importer is not carrying them for much longer supposedly.
The biggest issue I see when using these brakes is that they make a little noise when they are wet,but they still work great in the worst conditions,and then still work in worse conditions than that,but you have to maintain them,this is what a lot of people do not do I think,nothing just works forever without maintenance.
Operating a machine of any kind without knowing at least a little about it is just plain stupid,if you rely on some guy in a bike shop to do all of you work,maybe you should just walk,money can't buy you love,the people you pay to do your work don't really care...
I also use grimecas because every other schmoe in the world uses the current poser avant garde set-up,go ahead and throw your money away to impress someone who could care less,it's your bank account.
The grimecas work flawlessly,I've been stomping on em for 6 months and havent had to bleed em yet or anything,50 to 70 miles per day (6 Hours),and not a whimper.
The only problem I have had with them is that they work so good that suspension dive is a problem,gotta stop forgetting that 6" of front travel still can't absorb dumb tired fumble-finger gorilla grip grab,that's what helmets are for,but who likes to crash?.
It seems like swapping rotors would fix the main problem pretty easilygemini2k said:
another stoked juicy 7 user... comin off hope ti6s
Well my friend tried that, avid actually sent him out a new rotor, and he put it on, fixed the problem, but for some reason it didn't have the same power. We spent days working on it, but it just didn't work the same with a new rotor. Weird. So because of that, and the fact that polygons look a million times cooler he wnet back to those.funkendrenchman said:
Well I put a Hayes on the rear and it works fine now.gemini2k said:
Juicys get an
A for feel and a D for reliability. The '05 and '06 brakes have serious problems with the pistons sticking in the bores that is not at all easily remedied, as well as many phantom mastercylinder failures that pop up. I have had to warranty 2 pair straight out of the box in the last 3 months due to tolerances that were either too tight or too loose on the calipers. They also have very flimsy brakelines that are prone to kinking. Currently all distributiors are out of stock of things like piston seal kits and bleed kits, so if i didn't already have these things I would be SOL. LAMEO
On the plus side, as a shop manager, SRAM is quick to get replacement parts (actually usually entire brake systems) out when the inevitable problems arise. The only problem is that there have been so many failures with the 5's and 7's so far this season that SRAM dealer service is out of stock on brakes and parts just like the distributors.
I ride every day in fear that my brakes will fail and there will be no replacement parts available. Even my Mag's are considerably more reliable, and at least Hayes parts are rarely out of stock...
On the plus side, I have heard an explanation of what the heck is wrong with the Juicys lately, and it should be remedied for the batch of '07s that are about to land. I am confident enough that they have fixed their tolerance problems that I plan on being an early adopter with the Codes. When Juicys work I really like them
A for feel and a D for reliability. The '05 and '06 brakes have serious problems with the pistons sticking in the bores that is not at all easily remedied, as well as many phantom mastercylinder failures that pop up. I have had to warranty 2 pair straight out of the box in the last 3 months due to tolerances that were either too tight or too loose on the calipers. They also have very flimsy brakelines that are prone to kinking. Currently all distributiors are out of stock of things like piston seal kits and bleed kits, so if i didn't already have these things I would be SOL. LAMEO
On the plus side, as a shop manager, SRAM is quick to get replacement parts (actually usually entire brake systems) out when the inevitable problems arise. The only problem is that there have been so many failures with the 5's and 7's so far this season that SRAM dealer service is out of stock on brakes and parts just like the distributors.
I ride every day in fear that my brakes will fail and there will be no replacement parts available. Even my Mag's are considerably more reliable, and at least Hayes parts are rarely out of stock...
On the plus side, I have heard an explanation of what the heck is wrong with the Juicys lately, and it should be remedied for the batch of '07s that are about to land. I am confident enough that they have fixed their tolerance problems that I plan on being an early adopter with the Codes. When Juicys work I really like them
i have hayes 9's front and rear and dont have a huge problem with them but i know theres better out there. these do however get quite spongey on full day rides and i cant even lock the back wheel up (not that id want to anyway but..) im thinking about putting a new set of brakes (front/rear) on my bike and im wondering whats good. im thinking either hope 6ti or juicy sevens. should i keep the hayes or get some new brakes and which would you suggest?
now that i think about it the front always has nice grab. maybe its cause i have a 6 in back and an 8 in front. i have to get a new rear rotor anyway so i guess ill just put an 8 inch out back and see if this helps. i dont think it needs a bleed though cause it doesnt seem like its lost fluid.
Ive had hopes forever, only brake I will ever buy other than hayes nines