For when you can't be a chainless park rat...
http://www.mtb-mag.com/en/eurobike-canyons-project-disconnect/
http://www.mtb-mag.com/en/eurobike-canyons-project-disconnect/
Canyon Bikes Project Disconnect.
- Thread starter Uncle Cliffy
- Start date
The link did not work for me. Here is another one http://www.mtb-mag.com/canyon-disconnect/
You will then have to translate from italian to your favorite language!
In short it is a mechanism which disconnect the freewheel from the hub so that it is completly free to rotate. The goal is to replicate the behaviour of the bike as if you were riding chainless and thus reducing pedal kick back to zero which should allow the suspension to work more freely.
What do you think of that @Vrock ? If I remember well you did simulations showing that freewheeling over roots or a rock garden would never allow the freewheel to engage...
You will then have to translate from italian to your favorite language!
In short it is a mechanism which disconnect the freewheel from the hub so that it is completly free to rotate. The goal is to replicate the behaviour of the bike as if you were riding chainless and thus reducing pedal kick back to zero which should allow the suspension to work more freely.
What do you think of that @Vrock ? If I remember well you did simulations showing that freewheeling over roots or a rock garden would never allow the freewheel to engage...
Wouldn't a freecoaster hub do the same with a simpler setup?The link did not work for me. Here is another one http://www.mtb-mag.com/canyon-disconnect/
You will then have to translate from italian to your favorite language!
In short it is a mechanism which disconnect the freewheel from the hub so that it is completly free to rotate. The goal is to replicate the behaviour of the bike as if you were riding chainless and thus reducing pedal kick back to zero which should allow the suspension to work more freely.
What do you think of that @Vrock ? If I remember well you did simulations showing that freewheeling over roots or a rock garden would never allow the freewheel to engage...
Exactly! You wouldn't need the remote but as you might have observed Fabien Barel who is behind this likes to have as many remote as possible on his handlebars!
freecoasters are a maintenance nightmare.
I think the answer is yes, only if you could run enough slack in the freehub to take up the chain growth of a given frame/ gear combo. You'd also have to deal with the mushy and slack pedal engagement, which most mountain bikers would hate.
Then their might be a difference between having a perfectly functioning freecoaster (Canyon is probably big enough to develop a better freecoaster if they would) and being really chainless.
Chris Porter mentioned somewhere that clutch derailleur were impairing the suspension to a certain degree which sounds reasonable since there is quite a bit of stretch on the lower part of the chain when compressing the rear suspension. Maybe it is time for an experiment like @andrextr is doing to mesure the load needed to rotate the clutch while compressing the rear suspension? Has somebody done that already?
Chris Porter mentioned somewhere that clutch derailleur were impairing the suspension to a certain degree which sounds reasonable since there is quite a bit of stretch on the lower part of the chain when compressing the rear suspension. Maybe it is time for an experiment like @andrextr is doing to mesure the load needed to rotate the clutch while compressing the rear suspension? Has somebody done that already?
You really think that a good idea?
Having 10 remotes on your bar and making it look like this:You really think that a good idea?
Is not a good idea.
On the other hand the guys able to handle this earn a bit more money in one week than Gwinner, Lord Bummer and the Pope of DH combined in one seasonHaving 10 remotes on your bar and making it look like this:
Is not a good idea.
The only way I think it could work was a man activated but auto deactivated clutch, meaning you push the button, drive train is in freewheel mode and as soon as you start to crank it up again, power is transferred again.
But overall I think it is rather useless or let's say too much a hassle for too little a problem.
Aaaaand don't forget, Tantrump loves F1
I'm pretty sure Pablo Escobar made even more money and I don't think you are suggesting Gwin should smuggle coke to miami in his YT.On the other hand the guys able to handle this earn a bit more money in one week than Gwinner, Lord Bummer and the Pope of DH combined in one season
The only way I think it could work was a man activated but auto deactivated clutch, meaning you push the button, drive train is in freewheel mode and as soon as you start to crank it up again, power is transferred again.
But overall I think it is rather useless or let's say too much a hassle for too little a problem.
Aaaaand don't forget, Tantrump loves F1
Imho it's just another thing waiting to fail. Overcomplication of the system. Maybe they could design their suspension better before they go for gimmicks (Sender is ok but a few others are not)
$25 million a day TAX FREE? Hell yes he should load up that YT with some blow and make a dash across the border.
You might be onto something here. No one ever is gonna question or touch Rock Jeebus, so...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the problem they are trying to solve is chain growth that would engage the freehub, attempting to drive the wheel forward. In this case, a perfectly functioning freehub with no pedaling slack in the forward direction would offer no benefit.
It depends on the details of the design. Though as someone who kills his derail fairly often I don't always find the chainless ride to be better than chain on. Sometimes the chain keeping you higher in travel is better for stability.
Also the shock has only one tune and in more rearward bikes it might feel off in one of the 2 modes. You won't be able to set it up for both chain on and chainless
I've done a couple of experiments and it didn`t engage, but another way to check this is to look at slow-motion vids and see what`s going on.... The chain going crazy and being very slack through rockgardens so it's pretty obvious that it's not engaging.The link did not work for me. Here is another one http://www.mtb-mag.com/canyon-disconnect/
You will then have to translate from italian to your favorite language!
In short it is a mechanism which disconnect the freewheel from the hub so that it is completly free to rotate. The goal is to replicate the behaviour of the bike as if you were riding chainless and thus reducing pedal kick back to zero which should allow the suspension to work more freely.
What do you think of that @Vrock ? If I remember well you did simulations showing that freewheeling over roots or a rock garden would never allow the freewheel to engage...
The problem with this theory is that Gwin won a race without a chain and everyone jumped to conclusions.
It's a dt hub with a Sturmey Archer (3 speed internal hub) chain to engage. You know what that means? New standards! Yep, it'll need a 20mm thru axle in the back too. The hub will have to be boost 164 too.
Sometimes I wonder if people pay more attention to their doo-hickies, clothing, bikes and go pro's, than the actual ride itself.
Sometimes I wonder if people pay more attention to their doo-hickies, clothing, bikes and go pro's, than the actual ride itself.
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/2506525/ Same but different purpose.
And you have the added advantage of making your cockpit a bit symmetrical again, since It uses what looks like a modified shifter.
I heard the correct way to run your bike is with no rear tire. Then you win even more.
Thank you for your answer!
Did you experiment with different number of point of engagement (POE) ?
Ok, I got some feedback on this from another forum.
Kickback is not so much of a problem while coasting, even over rough stuff like Vrock found out. But it is more of a problem while braking over rough stuff since the rear wheel will slow down or even stop rotating for a short moment which will allow the freewheel to engage thus putting tension on the chain and locking the suspension.
Kickback is not so much of a problem while coasting, even over rough stuff like Vrock found out. But it is more of a problem while braking over rough stuff since the rear wheel will slow down or even stop rotating for a short moment which will allow the freewheel to engage thus putting tension on the chain and locking the suspension.
They could have gone with this Chosen hub:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/09/06/eb14-the-amazing-frictionless-chosen-smart-hub-freehub-spins-freely-in-both-directions/
http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/09/06/eb14-the-amazing-frictionless-chosen-smart-hub-freehub-spins-freely-in-both-directions/
This.
Someone needs to write a PSA regarding pedal feedback, since almost no one in the industry seems to understand how it works. Pedal feedback (and supposed restriction of the suspension under compression due to chaingrowth) is not just a function of the chaingrowth / frame kinematics itself - it's also a function of forward velocity, gearing, and hub engagement points.
Coasting forward (at all) means the freewheel is moving away from engagement (as Vrock explains) - so it's actually quite rare to see substantial pedal feedback if you're rolling forwards at any reasonable speed. On top of that, most hubs don't have instantaneous engagement, and that actually helps reduce the possibility of the chaingrowth "catching up" (or more specifically, it further reduces the minimum forward velocity you require to avoid pedal feedback).
So unless you're planning to #tbt the Jah Drop, these ideas are solving a problem that basically doesn't exist; and Gwin didn't win by eliminating pedal feedback. He won due to FSR's perfectly vertical wheelpath.
That's possible. Maybe they can connect this fancy mechanism to the rear brake lever so it's auto-engaged under braking. For the Euros however, another lever and cable please.
I think @Happymtb.fr does make a mildly valid point - I watched some high fps / slow motion of some local elite level riders entering a corner after braking bumps years ago, and the wheel does actually stop momentarily between hits without the rider actually skidding. The wheel resumes rotation upon hitting the next bump.
If I hadn't seen that video I probably wouldn't have believed it. However I don't feel it's something we need to waste 100-200g addressing either, especailly when it could probably be reduced by just using a moderate engagement hub (~36pt) at zero extra weight.
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The brake lever actuating the disengage mech is brilliant.
The only downside is the BC boys who still do skinnys or awkward 90 degree low speed roll-ins.
The ability to play pedal tension against brakes in low speed tight maneuvering may take a hit.
The only downside is the BC boys who still do skinnys or awkward 90 degree low speed roll-ins.
The ability to play pedal tension against brakes in low speed tight maneuvering may take a hit.
You forgot to mention the speed at which the rear suspension is compressed.
On that topic, I am looking for a valid range of speed of compression for the rear wheel. I found somebody mentioning between 2,5 and 4 m/s being typical high speed events and also found a dyno test of a Pike and Float RC2 where the range extended to 8 m/s. I assume here that the rear wheel will go through its travel at the same speed as the front wheel, is that a valid assumption?
Would 2,5 to 4 m/s be a good working range and up to 8 m/s be the highest compression speed to consider?
I found this which correlate my earlier findings:
http://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/suspension-geeks-rejoice.184728/#post-2607813
http://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/suspension-geeks-rejoice.184728/#post-2607813