[aaronjb]

To everyone that bitches and moans about bikes being too expensive, helmets, pads, bla bla bla
Go out there and make it all yourself, it's so easy and 'cheap' to do.

I see your point, but that argument is always silly.

That said, I think it's easy to forget that we're in a niche industry. The potential market for full-on DH bikes is relatively large. R&D (including the cost of funding a factory team) isn't cheap, and that cost is passed on to the consumer.

You want to ride what the big boys want, you're going to have to pay for it.

I know guys who set up LLCs to house their part-time (amateur) rally expenses, and it's something I imagine any part-time DH'er could do, particularly if you have a few sponsors on board.

 

[yuroshek]

gwin riding crank brothers pedals? Are they a sponsor of his or does he choose those over the shimano pedals?

 

[William42]

Wow the bike looks awesome. Especially the #1. I've had a couple carbon Treks and they were solid. That was 15 years ago! I can only imagine how far they've come since then. I wonder if it will be USA oclv, probably not, that would be too expensive.

Anyone know anything about the Bontrager rims?

Funn bars and stem. Last I saw he was using Sunline. I love how he runs his lever perch right next to the grip since he hangs his hands off the ends of his 31" wide bars.

I know something about those bontrager rims.

If they're the same ones as they were a year or two ago, which they look like (judging by rim profile) then they're a pretty legit race wheelset - rim weighs about 530g, they can be built very stiff, and they're soft as cheese which helps avoid pinch flats. I'm on my 6th rim (and I've never ruined another rim in my life) in a year, but haven't gotten one pinch flat. I suspect the trek mechanics are pretty solid at wheel building. Haven't bothered to set them up tubeless, because I've folded the bead line on the rim down so that its touching the center channel so many times that it'd just be a waste of time.

They could, however, be completely different. But the rim profile looks the same, and bontrager made the same rim for like 20 different bikes, so I suspect they have alot of those sitting around, and it makes for a pretty solid race rim.

 

[IH8Rice]

Wow the bike looks awesome. Especially the #1. I've had a couple carbon Treks and they were solid. That was 15 years ago!
I love how he runs his lever perch right next to the grip since he hangs his hands off the ends of his 31" wide bars.

you must have been the only one who didnt have problems.

Dirt! said he runs his levers close to the grips because the levers are super short

and they're soft as cheese which helps avoid pinch flats. I'm on my 6th rim (and I've never ruined another rim in my life) in a year, but haven't gotten one pinch flat.

i think id rather have a pinch flat then go through 6 rims in a year....that sounds like the years i rode the Double Wides when hucking off of roofs

 

[marshalolson]

and your math is looking more like 100%....

you don't understand margin, do you?

divide by .5 = multiply by 2.

500 LC -> 1000 wholesale -> 2000 retail.

is 50% real, for both? no, clearly not. however, $500 landed cost (ie including tooling, r&d, labor, etc) is clearly not either. you might also check max discount for big trek/giant dealers etc

 

[Dogboy]

Dirt! said he runs his levers close to the grips because the levers are super short

Yep, those XTR Trail levers are way shorter than Saints.

 

[William42]

you must have been the only one who didnt have problems.

Dirt! said he runs his levers close to the grips because the levers are super short



i think id rather have a pinch flat then go through 6 rims in a year....that sounds like the years i rode the Double Wides when hucking off of roofs

I agree, I never really got pinch flats before these rims to be honest, I run real DH tires and it just never seems to be a problem.

If I hadn't gotten 8 of them at 6 bucks a pop I wouldn't be running them either. Once I run out I'll buy a real rim.

 

[leprechaun]

Yep, those XTR Trail levers are way shorter than Saints.

Yes, i have a set. I run mine in 12mm from the grip and i have small hands. His are right up against the grip and surely has hands larger than mine.

 

[davetrump]

you don't understand margin, do you?

divide by .5 = multiply by 2.

500 LC -> 1000 wholesale -> 2000 retail.

is 50% real, for both? no, clearly not. however, $500 landed cost (ie including tooling, r&d, labor, etc) is clearly not either. you might also check max discount for big trek/giant dealers etc

margin = ($retail - $cost) divided by retail.... well aware, I manage a distribution center responsible for 37m in sales

I read your post a bit fast my apology... the bottom line saying cost is 500 and retail is 2575 (80+ %)

so yes your math is correct... sorry i thought you just threw a blanket statement out say each makes 50%. often retailers make larger margins than wholesale/manufacturers most of the time so it is not an even split. as a wholesaler I work to make anywhere from 28-38% depending on volume/class of trade. Retail ranges are set by the market/competition, etc, and we need to hit a wholesale for our buyers so that they can hit 38-40% without pricing a product out of it's competitors range.

In the bike industry the manufacturer "recommended price" often forced dealers to take a huge hit on margin.... on the flip side some bikes are more expensive simply because the manufacturer actually takes the dealer into consideration (bike A and bike B have same wholesale, but greatly different retail).

and like you mentioned with max discount... volume will change the numbers


NICE BIKE.... but too bad we are all getting ripped off by this $500 piece of plastic like the first guy pointed out

 

[davetrump]

You forgot the cost to maintain TWR and the future cost of keeping Gwin on the team. His 'package' potential has probably expanded in the tens if not hundreds of %. Like viagra on viagra!!

pretty sure that goes under marketing/brand building as mentioned

 

[marshalolson]

margin = ($retail - $cost) divided by retail....

correct. 100% margin -> $0.00 landed cost and my poking fun at your understanding of margin.

the main reason, IMO the retailers and manufacturers don't see 50/50 margin anymore has more to due with the prevalence of distributors (qbp/veltec/hwy2 etc) than anything else. so instead of a 50/50 you wind up with a 40/25/40 margin structure @ the same LC and same retail.

big brands like trek and giant handle distro themselves, so they cut out the middleman, and everyone winds up with a better margin. like it or leave it, however, if you are either a brand or a retailer, if you are not making keystone, you might be able to squeek out an existence, but you will never be profitable. there is a reason 50% margin is called keystone after all

 

[davetrump]

of course 100% margin means there is no landed cost

correct... Like I said I read your post too fast and it looked like someone throwing out the usual crazy RM forum #'s

50% margin = 100% markup , something some of the people I deal with never sort out because they still think strictly gross profit. Though there are some industries that still play by this and get away (high end clothing comes to mind)... the bike industry could only dream of getting this.

Unforunately due to the factors you mentioned above keystone is becoming very outdated.

since it's not necessarily what you make, it's what you keep that matters, cutting operational expenses (job's, fuel, benefits) seems to be focus these days as everyone is taking a hit on margin.

cheers

but he... we are all getting ripped of by people tryng to make an honest buck (unless talking oil, haha)

 

['size]

http://www.tri-ride.com/en/news/spy/la-trek-session-88-in-carbonio-di-gwin/

 

[ridefree]

fn beautiful!

 

[freeridefool]

http://www.tri-ride.com/en/news/spy/la-trek-session-88-in-carbonio-di-gwin/

I'd hit that.

 

['size]

a few more shots

 

[ekimox]

 

[Trekrules]

By the look of it the whole entire frame is carbon fiber,amazing bike wow

 

[lachy_mtb]

chainstay still looks alloy but I'm pumped regardless

 

[luiz carlos]

Coolest podium ever

 

[IH8Rice]

via Vital's FB page

Christian's V10C just got some competition. id hate to see how light you could actually make this thing...especially after seeing that 29lb aluminum Session
"28.13 lbs"

 

[DHJUNKIE]

like people were saying on the FB page... carbon wheels on that thing.. would reallllly pimp it out.. wish they gave a build spec

 

[Lelandjt]

Such a light frame with coil suspension* got me thinking. Is anyone surprised that we haven't seen a prototype Fox air DH shock? Rockshox is doing well with theirs and Bos and Cane Creek are releasing them.

*Don't call that fork "air suspension". They just took a 40 and put an air cap on the spring leg, just like Marz has been doing for years.

 

[chillindrdude]

28.13lbs....gaddamn, that's about what my trail bike used to weigh...

 

[norbar]

via Vital's FB page

Christian's V10C just got some competition. id hate to see how light you could actually make this thing...especially after seeing that 29lb aluminum Session
"28.13 lbs"

Is there a full component list? Because that last trek session build they showed at the 88 launch in 09 was pretty silly.

 

[IH8Rice]

Is anyone surprised that we haven't seen a prototype Fox air DH shock? Rockshox is doing well with theirs and Bos and Cane Creek are releasing them.

i am surprised. the DHX Air isnt really a "DH worthy" shock, especially compared to the new offerings from everyone else. the CC and Bos look pretty damn similar, so itll be interesting to see Fox's rendition of a air DH shock.

 

[William42]

i am surprised. the DHX Air isnt really a "DH worthy" shock, especially compared to the new offerings from everyone else. the CC and Bos look pretty damn similar, so itll be interesting to see Fox's rendition of a air DH shock.

yah, but fox has long been of the opinion that air is not good enough for real DH haven't they? isn't that why you only see coil options in their forks?

 

[IH8Rice]

yah, but fox has long been of the opinion that air is not good enough for real DH haven't they?

well apparently CC and Bos are laughing at this.

 

[dropmachine]

well apparently CC and Bos are laughing at this.

Or they realize that a lot of DH riders are muppets and buy stupid things based on marketing, hype and preceived but not proven benefits and know that these things will sell regardless if they work or not.

Not sayin anything, just sayin.

 

[Lelandjt]

^And Fox is above pandering to silly fads? The Dhx Air seemed like a half assed marketing play. An air shock that looks capable cuz it appears to be an air version of their downhill shock.

 

[Christiaan]

via Vital's FB page

Christian's V10C just got some competition. id hate to see how light you could actually make this thing...especially after seeing that 29lb aluminum Session
"28.13 lbs"

Hmm, my parts, that Session frame would be crazy light, hahaha

 

[Lelandjt]

Hmm, my parts, that Session frame would be crazy light.

A large V10c frame minus shock weighs 7.25lb. The 3" stroke Vivid Air weighs 1.3lb. The Session gets away with a shorter, lighter shock but I wonder what the frame itself weighs.

 

[p-spec]

well apparently CC and Bos are laughing at this.

all base belongs to cc

 

[tuumbaq]

Or they realize that a lot of DH riders are muppets and buy stupid things based on marketing, hype and preceived but not proven benefits and know that these things will sell regardless if they work or not.

Not sayin anything, just sayin.

^^^^ this

 

[mtg]

I'm wondering if Fox is working on an Air DH shock, but in typical Fox fashion, not release it until it's fully refined (like the 36 180 forks).

 

[norbar]

^^^^ this

Well the pros probably dont ride them for a reason but for park bikes they are awesome. Fox looses not only on the dh market here. Everybody and their mom knows the dhx air is crap so if they want an air shock for anything bigger than all mountain they buy something else. That is a big chunk of the market.

 

[IH8Rice]

Hmm, my parts, that Session frame would be crazy light, hahaha

yeah, no sh!t. theres a ton of weight to be lost. scary

 

['size]

this should add some weight back.
http://spokemagazine.com/2011/09/12/di2-session/

 

[IH8Rice]

this should add some weight back.
http://spokemagazine.com/2011/09/12/di2-session/

but still adding moar stupid

 

[William42]

There are alot of high end bike products that I would love to ride and never own. A 28+ pound session with di2 is one of them. It'd be great to take it on a run down the mountain and see how it feels, and I can only imagine a headache to maintain.