d5.1s tubeless?
- Thread starter dhkid
- Start date
5.1's are 500 grams per rim. 823's are 590 grams per rim. The 823's are only about 1/4 of a pound heavier per set, plus they don't need rim strips and are much stronger than the 5.1's.
That claimed weight doesnt include spoke nipple cup things.
Yea as dhkid says, its 580g + 60g for the fore nipple inserts making it alot closer to 640g
From Mavic's website:
http://www.mavic.com/ewb_pages/v/vtt_produit_jante_EX_823_disc.php?gamme=vtt
657g
http://www.mavic.com/ewb_pages/v/vtt_produit_jante_EX_823_disc.php?gamme=vtt
657g
If the weights are like in Mavic's past, the weight is plus ~60 grams for the eyelets.
geez, the 5.1 is an 'enduro' rim, the 823 is a DH rim.
The XM819 is more in-line at 465g plus the eyelets (they might use the lighter eyelets than the 823s assuming its like the CrossMax wheelset...would kill for some XLs yum....)
The XM819 is more in-line at 465g plus the eyelets (they might use the lighter eyelets than the 823s assuming its like the CrossMax wheelset...would kill for some XLs yum....)
its 19mm wide. 
and on the cross max they dont use eylets, they have special nipples for their alu spokes. and if you are real weight weenie, you can use the alu eylets from their road wheels.
so anyone actually use them? i have dented my 721s really badly, they are actually cracked in one spot in the front and 2 for the rear rim. so i worry i will kill the 5.1s on the first outing, but then again i am hoping that they work well with tubeless and i would be able run a few more psi and not kill them.
and on the cross max they dont use eylets, they have special nipples for their alu spokes. and if you are real weight weenie, you can use the alu eylets from their road wheels.so anyone actually use them? i have dented my 721s really badly, they are actually cracked in one spot in the front and 2 for the rear rim. so i worry i will kill the 5.1s on the first outing, but then again i am hoping that they work well with tubeless and i would be able run a few more psi and not kill them.
I built a set of EX5.1/Hope Bulb wheelset using DT Supercomp spokes and Pro Lock alloy nipples. While the set was a light 1.89kg, I was certain that they wouldn't hold up to any serious abuse. To my surprise I have not had to true them after some 7 months of riding.. including a trip to Mammoth.its 19mm wide.
so anyone actually use them? i have dented my 721s really badly, they are actually cracked in one spot in the front and 2 for the rear rim. so i worry i will kill the 5.1s on the first outing, but then again i am hoping that they work well with tubeless and i would be able run a few more psi and not kill them.
As for the tubeless conversion, I didn't see any benefit based on the tire that I run (Nokian NBX 2.3). The tubeless version is actually a heavier setup and would then have to play with that sloppy sealant. IMHO, not worth the hassle. I like the simplicity of UST when mounting tires on my DeeMax and Crossmax XL wheelsets, though.
Something is wrong if you have to use Stans, it is not required in a UST rim and UST tire setup.
To answer your original question, Dt's 5.1 tubeless kit works great on that rim. It is the closest thing I have found to the UST system.
The rim strips weigh next to nothing compared to the other rubber ones on the market. The only hassle is they are a BITCH to get on.
But other than that, they work great.
The rim strips weigh next to nothing compared to the other rubber ones on the market. The only hassle is they are a BITCH to get on.
But other than that, they work great.
Sorry perhaps I misunderstood when you mentioned earlier that the 823's were too heavy. In this case I'm not sure about the advantage of the EX5.1 over a beefier UST rim, except for their top-notch Swiss production quality and good looks. They probably do dent easy, but I've been fairly lucky with mine.
If you use certified UST tires on UST rims they normally hold air well, if installed right. On my Deemax and Crossmax XL wheelsets, both with Continental tires, I seldomly have to add much air.
That's good to know. Which tires are you using? Maybe I will do the EX5.1 tubeless conversion this Winter when the temperature dips down to -20 C and I'm tired of drinking Jaegermeister. :biggrin:
Michelin DH tires. 2.5 Comp 16's mostly.
well, most ust set up work WELL, but with stans they work GREAT. every single person with a proper ust ends up using stans over here.
nomatter what ust still leaks air, so you need to pump it up every few weeks. and maybe the rocks over here are extra sharp, but i have seen two michelins with pinch punchers. thats right, pinch punchers. a one maxxis do the same too. then the normall thorns and rips.
bitch as in maxxis+rhyno lite kinda bitch or just like any other rim tape tubeless set up bitch?
thats good to hear, so they might be some weight savings over standard ust.
If you ride UST through the rocks, you'll want to run Stans. Punctures happen and Stans will usually help you get to the bottom. When the rim bead is an integral part in keeping the air in, you do what you can to keep the dents out. Running Michey and Maxxis, I believe that I've had more UST punctures this year than tubed pinch flats last year. go figure.
I have not had good luck with the DT Swiss. In one weekend at Snowshoe I killed three rims from dents. That being said, I'm 195 lbs., but I was running 34 lbs. in the rear and 27 in the front. I've been on Mavic 823's since and not a single dent/flat spot/wobble and I'm running lower pressures. I would forget the weight savings and go with the mavics as you won't have to rebuild wheels five times a season.
Get the Mavics. They are the best tubeless rims out there. The newer 823s hold up great and aren't that heavy as far as DH rims go. I have also used 819s a ton and have had almost no problems (such as casing a 20ft stepdown two times on my XC bike with XC tires- nothing happened to the wheels).
If you are a lighter rider, you could probably get away with using the new '07 Crossmax SX's. I've beat the tar out of my Crossmax XL's and I'm about 165 pounds with gear. The SX's are supposed to be a bit wider and stiffer. Not sure if they will make that available as just a rim, though.
A while back I built a set of wheels using EX823s, Hope Pro2 hubs (32h), DT Comp spokes (w/brass nipples). Weight ended up being somting like 2.25kg... about 200g lighter than my Deemaxes and easier to service.
Some info here...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/08-18
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/08-18
A cup of Stans in a UST/UST combo goes a long way against minor burping,small pinches and generally holding pressure well.
Since Peaty and Sam Hill used 5.1s all season i'm sure a lot of people are looking at these rims. The Sunday WC is coming with them.
5.1 is 20.5mm wide 500g
721 is 21mm wide 600g
823 is 23mm wide 720g
729 is 29mm wide 700g
Maxxis strip is 125g, similar to a 20" ghetto tube strip.
721 does not setup tubeless well at all and 5.1s do since they have a small flat area for the bead to sit on.
823s are great setups but we here at Go-Ride still feel that for DH in order to have sucess a rubber strip is necessary to seal up a dent.a 5.1 and a strip weigh less thana 823 and may seal up better when dented.
I know the new 823 is strong but all DH rims get dented. And the new stiffer 823 has been pinching tires. We've been using 729s with Maxxis DH2 strips with great sucess.
The DH1 strip is a hair too wide to fit the 5.1 but i just put a A1 strip on and it looks like it will sork well. The step in the rim might allow for Ghetto tubeless to work well. Too bad the Maxxis strips are running out and won't be made anymore just as they are starting to take off. We are trying to buy all of the remaining inventory.DH1's are all gone allready, it was the only way to get a 721 to work well tubeless with a variety of tires and minimal burping.
I'm not going to make a dumb statement and say one is better, just some info.
Since Peaty and Sam Hill used 5.1s all season i'm sure a lot of people are looking at these rims. The Sunday WC is coming with them.
5.1 is 20.5mm wide 500g
721 is 21mm wide 600g
823 is 23mm wide 720g
729 is 29mm wide 700g
Maxxis strip is 125g, similar to a 20" ghetto tube strip.
721 does not setup tubeless well at all and 5.1s do since they have a small flat area for the bead to sit on.
823s are great setups but we here at Go-Ride still feel that for DH in order to have sucess a rubber strip is necessary to seal up a dent.a 5.1 and a strip weigh less thana 823 and may seal up better when dented.
I know the new 823 is strong but all DH rims get dented. And the new stiffer 823 has been pinching tires. We've been using 729s with Maxxis DH2 strips with great sucess.
The DH1 strip is a hair too wide to fit the 5.1 but i just put a A1 strip on and it looks like it will sork well. The step in the rim might allow for Ghetto tubeless to work well. Too bad the Maxxis strips are running out and won't be made anymore just as they are starting to take off. We are trying to buy all of the remaining inventory.DH1's are all gone allready, it was the only way to get a 721 to work well tubeless with a variety of tires and minimal burping.
I'm not going to make a dumb statement and say one is better, just some info.
Nice to see that the new Mavic valve is sealant friendly, that says something.
A number of general improvements grace the entire line, including key improvements to the freehub internals. Previous FTS-L freehub bodies were somewhat notorious for seal drag and requiring frequent maintenance. According to Mavic Marketing Communication Manager Sean Sullivan, the crux of the issue was not contamination from outside, but rather buildup of metallic 'dust' from within as the somewhat soft pawls wore and broke down the lubricating oil. The updated FTS-X system utilizes new pawls made of harder material which are said to produce substantially less particulate, and a new freehub body seal cuts down on friction. Sadly, Mavic continues to use a bushing on the inboard side of the freehub body (made of fancy-sounding 'Iglidur') instead of a bearing, but insists its current approach is still the best way to go.
Now that is some funny ****!!! The mystery dust is not from (just) the pawls its the bushing eating the ano off the hub shell while coasting. Then the freehub is so loose that yer chain is jumping all over. But yellow wheels are still everywhere. Priceless.
A number of general improvements grace the entire line, including key improvements to the freehub internals. Previous FTS-L freehub bodies were somewhat notorious for seal drag and requiring frequent maintenance. According to Mavic Marketing Communication Manager Sean Sullivan, the crux of the issue was not contamination from outside, but rather buildup of metallic 'dust' from within as the somewhat soft pawls wore and broke down the lubricating oil. The updated FTS-X system utilizes new pawls made of harder material which are said to produce substantially less particulate, and a new freehub body seal cuts down on friction. Sadly, Mavic continues to use a bushing on the inboard side of the freehub body (made of fancy-sounding 'Iglidur') instead of a bearing, but insists its current approach is still the best way to go.
Now that is some funny ****!!! The mystery dust is not from (just) the pawls its the bushing eating the ano off the hub shell while coasting. Then the freehub is so loose that yer chain is jumping all over. But yellow wheels are still everywhere. Priceless.
Do you know whats the weight of the 5.1 with the DT swiss tubeless tape? & does it work well?
great post leprechaun,
well, peaty and sam may have run it all season. but how many do they go throught each race?
what about the 5.1 with the dt swiss tubeless kit? or does maxxis kit work better with it?
so the 5.1 might be worth it after all, since it might work better dented, and is lighter then a 823 more so a 823 + a rim strip. just comes down to durability(from dents), how to they fair agains say a mavic or a sun? just for comparism.
well, peaty and sam may have run it all season. but how many do they go throught each race? what about the 5.1 with the dt swiss tubeless kit? or does maxxis kit work better with it? so the 5.1 might be worth it after all, since it might work better dented, and is lighter then a 823 more so a 823 + a rim strip. just comes down to durability(from dents), how to they fair agains say a mavic or a sun? just for comparism.
It uses something new, as it is now 26mm. Here's a link with some more info:
http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=2049
Right at the top of the Cross Mountain pile are the Crossmax STs. There will be V and disk (6 bolt and centrelock) versions with the usual spoking arrangements(V18/20, D24/24) for each and they're UST ready. What you do get for your extra money over the Crosstrails is the new stiffer hub design, round alloy Zircal spokes with Isopulse lacing on the rear and a nicely machined away rim (ISM in Mavic-ese) with a spine left between spokes to increase stiffness and durability. They come in a rather nice black shot peened finish with laser etched subtle graphics on the rim. Weighs are 1660g for a disk pair and 1585g for the Vs.
all, but then info you want.
but if its 26mm wide then it looks like there will be a new 826 rim?
all, but then info you want.
but if its 26mm wide then it looks like there will be a new 826 rim?
Technically, it should be 822 since Mavic uses the inner diameter for their naming convention.
I would imagine that they retire the 819, making a 2mm wider replacement rim in their product line. The 819 rim is currently built up as the Crossmax XL wheelset, so makes sense they do a similar thing for the SX.