[ramstein-dh]

Hi there.

I used to have a scarab so I can offer some insight.

Strong and sturdy frames with uber plush bump eating suspension.

However, the back end suffers from huge amounts of lateral flex. This is due to the slack pivots and the long, small tubed steel swing arm. There's little you can do about it other than get used to two wheel steering. The geometry, as said, is pretty old school, very high and tall with steep head angle and short wheelbase - can feel pretty sketchy on steep downhills. The frame is also heavier than claimed - they claim 11.8 lbs or something for frame and shock but when I sold mine I stripped it down to the frame and shock and it weighed 13.5 lbs!!!

I bought a Katipo after that and man oh man the difference was incredible!! Katipo had all the good about the scarab but NONE of the bad!!!

Oh and I have some excellent cond. 888RC2X's for sale if you want them. I'm in the UK too.

Hello

Thanks for the info and how much for the 888 buddy.
Well just bought the one shirebikes ED had for sale frame is #008.
I do not understand what lateral flex is?
I'm worried now as i'm 18 stone and could this brake on me?
As i just spent £300.00 , was this the right thing to do?
Getting it powder coated sky blue , not sure on the 5th shock though ,may send it to Avalanche in a month or so.I hope i have done the right thing , as i was reading the old threads on SDH , any the guys whom had them said they were amazing and were the closest thing to a BMW racelink you could get.
I think you had 007? and the first to have one in the UK.

cheers

Jason

 

[KavuRider]

still want a BMW
With a MTN-8

it will happen. price/time/weight be damned.

 

[Gridds]

Hello

Thanks for the info and how much for the 888 buddy.
Well just bought the one shirebikes ED had for sale frame is #008.
I do not understand what lateral flex is?
I'm worried now as i'm 18 stone and could this brake on me?
As i just spent £300.00 , was this the right thing to do?
Getting it powder coated sky blue , not sure on the 5th shock though ,may send it to Avalanche in a month or so.I hope i have done the right thing , as i was reading the old threads on SDH , any the guys whom had them said they were amazing and were the closest thing to a BMW racelink you could get.
I think you had 007? and the first to have one in the UK.

cheers

Jason

Yup that's right, I had 007.

Lateral flex is basically how much the rear wheel and swing arm flex sideways relative to the main frame under side (lateral) loads. It's not really a problem in terms of strength, I just prefer a much stiffer back end (like the katipo). I seriously doubt it'll break under you, just might feel a little squirmy if you really push it in the corners.
The travel is pretty much bottomless but you might still want a pretty heavy spring for a guy of your weight due to the leverage ratio of the frame - I had a 600lb spring and I'm 14 stone.
To be honest I never really realised how 'bad' the scarab was until I had the katipo and felt how good that was. I loved the Dark while I had it, though it was always a bit short for my lanky 6'3" self.

I'll sell the 888RC2X's for £300. Pics here

 

[norbar]

Hello

Thanks for the info and how much for the 888 buddy.
Well just bought the one shirebikes ED had for sale frame is #008.
I do not understand what lateral flex is?
I'm worried now as i'm 18 stone and could this brake on me?
As i just spent £300.00 , was this the right thing to do?
Getting it powder coated sky blue , not sure on the 5th shock though ,may send it to Avalanche in a month or so.I hope i have done the right thing , as i was reading the old threads on SDH , any the guys whom had them said they were amazing and were the closest thing to a BMW racelink you could get.
I think you had 007? and the first to have one in the UK.

cheers

Jason

It depends when they were were claiming they were amazing. If the posts were from many years ago - there was little comparison because very few bikes had modern geo

 

[ramstein-dh]

Thanks for the info , those 888 are nice may get them bad boys.
So i don't know if i have done the right thing or not here.
So every frame has this lateral flex or just a few?
I'm planning on losing some weight anyway's.
I just don't want to be paranoid when riding it , i though i was doing good by buying a steel frame and everyone whom has ridden or owned one seems to love them.
I don't really care about the old geometry and what not as i will never ever race and this is just a hobby for now.
Though i want it to last a few years.

I like the kapito frames but second hand they are rare and new they are like £1000.00 with shipping and import tax.

I really hope the right thing was done here , as i had to buy something as nothing else had come up and i would have just wasted the money on a ps3.

 

[ramstein-dh]

still want a BMW
With a MTN-8

it will happen. price/time/weight be damned.

Though this is not a BMW it will have some MTN-8 on it

 

[HardtailHack]

I'd build it up before you get it powdercoated as there's no point having a frame you hate looking pretty.
If you decide to go for a new rear shock I would try and get a slightly shorter one so you can drop the BB, if you do that and run the previously stated offset bushes to lower the BB more you could possibly get a 64deg headangle. Only problem is the chainstay length will be a bit longer as you drop the BB.

 

[ramstein-dh]

I'd build it up before you get it powdercoated as there's no point having a frame you hate looking pretty.
If you decide to go for a new rear shock I would try and get a slightly shorter one so you can drop the BB, if you do that and run the previously stated offset bushes to lower the BB more you could possibly get a 64deg headangle. Only problem is the chainstay length will be a bit longer as you drop the BB.

Hello

Thanks for the info ,well i will not know if i hate it you see.
As this will be the first dh bike i have ever ridden , so all is new to me.
All i have ever ridden is suspension xc bikes and hardtails with monsters on LOL.
That's why i don't know what all this stuff means , head angle and what not , obviously bb height it the height of the ground , but all the other stuff means nothing too me.
I just wanted a lonks lasting dh bike on a budget, i have everything now apart from rear hub.

1. Avalanche MTN-8 with direct mount stem
2. DARK SCARAB
3. hope tech m4 brakes
4. holzerfellar cranks
5. xt short rear mech.
6. xt shifter
7.xt cassette
8. 20mm hope hub
9. arrow racing DHX rims
10. continental diesel tyres
11. sdg seat post
12. san marco dh seat
13 , lizard skins lock on grips
14. race face dh bars
15. dmr v12 pedals
upto now coat me £850.00 collecting parts over a few months.

 

[LMC]

i would agree with what others have said about the Katipo, it may take you a few months to save the extra money but it will be worth it in the long run vs the dark cycles. If the frame has to last you a lifetime why not wait a few months and get the best you can?

EDIT: hold on, have you already bought the Scarab?

 

[Gridds]

Don't worry mate I'm sure you'll like the frame/bike, I did when I first got mine!! For a first time DH bike it will be more than fine.

So you want these 888's then? Message me your email address and we can do business.

 

[norbar]

Go away from the Diesel Tires. They are utter GARBAGE! They rip easily, have little traction and are not too good at lower pressures. Safe bet - maxxis high rollers 2.5 42a front and 60a back.

 

[LMC]

what sort of rear hub do you need? i may have something to suit

 

[ramstein-dh]

i would agree with what others have said about the Katipo, it may take you a few months to save the extra money but it will be worth it in the long run vs the dark cycles. If the frame has to last you a lifetime why not wait a few months and get the best you can?

EDIT: hold on, have you already bought the Scarab?

Well that is the thing you see , all these parts cost me less than the price of a new Kapito.
And i just don't have the funds to buy a new frame ,perhaps when i get into it more then yes i will but for the time being this is just to get me started for a few years.
I thank everyone for the help and advice, i imagine i will be falling of the bike allot so i went with steel.
These frames can't be that bad , i know ally is lighter and more modern geo but they do coast allot of money.
I had to sell my mixing decks and other things to get the money up for the bike bits , as all my spare money goes on my baby.
And my rent is high and what not so this is all i could afford really.

 

[ramstein-dh]

what sort of rear hub do you need? i may have something to suit

I need a 12mm x 150mm buddy ,i have 32 hole rims so 32 hole would be nice , but i will just swap them with my buddy for 36 hoe if thats what you have.
Please let me know what you got and a price please

Jason

 

[ramstein-dh]

Go away from the Diesel Tires. They are utter GARBAGE! They rip easily, have little traction and are not too good at lower pressures. Safe bet - maxxis high rollers 2.5 42a front and 60a back.

Nooooooooooooooo! I bought crappy tyres,well i got them for £10.00 the pair so not lost too much really, , for some reason they scanned up as £5.00 each in Halfords in January, may have been on sale because they are crap LOL!

So ,my frame is crap , my tyres are crap and the forks are heavy , what next

Also without sounding pig headed what does 42a front mean and 60a back mean.
Sorry i may sound really thick but hey LOL!

 

[norbar]

It's rubber type. 42a is much more sticky and gives better grip over slippery stuff like roots and rocks but wears out faster. People tend to drag their rear brake more so a harder tire in the rear makes more sense. Also front traction is more important. You can also go 42a on both tires but then your rear wont last a full season so 60a is better if you are on a budget.


btw. Biggest 2 cheap improvements on your bike are bars and tires. Run low pressure in your tires (check what faster riders at your spot run, run a little more because you are heavy but not that much ). As for bars - how tall are you? Go wide. 760mm is a minimum imho. It gives you a much better position and stability on the bike. If you are over 5'10'' go more, cut if you feel weird. For cheap bars look at crc or some other big shops. They have sales all the time. If not I recomend dartmoor nitro. It's quite cheap around here, 780mm wide and made from 7075 alu so it should be strong. Funn bars from 7050 or 7075 are also good and cheapish.

 

[Gridds]

42a and 60a refer to the durometer of the tyre rubber on the Shore A hardness scale. 42a being softer, more grippy but will wear faster than a slightly harder 60a, hence 42a is better for the front and 60a for the rear.

So you want these forks? If you take them I can throw in a Funn direct mount stem and some Race Face Diablous bars. Any good for you?

 

[LMC]

I need a 12mm x 150mm buddy ,i have 32 hole rims so 32 hole would be nice , but i will just swap them with my buddy for 36 hoe if thats what you have.
Please let me know what you got and a price please

Jason

PM sent

 

[KavuRider]

Nooooooooooooooo! I bought crappy tyres,well i got them for £10.00 the pair so not lost too much really, , for some reason they scanned up as £5.00 each in Halfords in January, may have been on sale because they are crap LOL!

So ,my frame is crap , my tyres are crap and the forks are heavy , what next

Also without sounding pig headed what does 42a front mean and 60a back mean.
Sorry i may sound really thick but hey LOL!

Dude, don't stress on this.

Build it, ride it, enjoy it.

 

[ramstein-dh]

42a and 60a refer to the durometer of the tyre rubber on the Shore A hardness scale. 42a being softer, more grippy but will wear faster than a slightly harder 60a, hence 42a is better for the front and 60a for the rear.

So you want these forks? If you take them I can throw in a Funn direct mount stem and some Race Face Diablous bars. Any good for you?

Hello

Yeah i may have a buyer for the MTN-8 forks but i would need to sell these first i'm affraid.

 

[Gridds]

Ok buddy, no worries, just let me know when you know.

 

[ramstein-dh]

Dude, don't stress on this.

Build it, ride it, enjoy it.

Will do buddy , cheers.
Also thanks for all the info on tires , you learn something new every day

 

[ramstein-dh]

The scarab is a nice frame , just stripped it down , and what do you know the crappy 5th shock is leaking from the rebound adjuster.
When you turn it all the way out.
No wonder the guy had it turned all the way in.
Now he is saying sold as seen , and will not let me return it , so now i have to spend money on a shock.

 

[KavuRider]

The scarab is a nice frame , just stripped it down , and what do you know the crappy 5th shock is leaking from the rebound adjuster.
When you turn it all the way out.
No wonder the guy had it turned all the way in.
Now he is saying sold as seen , and will not let me return it , so now i have to spend money on a shock.

Bummer

I know shipping to the US can be expensive, but if you have Avalanche rebuild that 5th Element, you will be VERY happy...and it would match your MTN-8.

 

[ramstein-dh]

Bummer

I know shipping to the US can be expensive, but if you have Avalanche rebuild that 5th Element, you will be VERY happy...and it would match your MTN-8.

Yeah sounds good, the full Avalanche tune is $175.00.
I have been offered a new Fox Vanilla Rc for £65.00 but it is 9" and may not fit.
As the 5th is 8.75".

 

[Gridds]

Na, a 9" shock will not fit.

If anything I'd go shorter than 8.75" to maybe a 8.5". This would at least slacken it out and lower the BB a bit but also increase the static chainstay length a tad.

Best stick to 8.75" IMO.

 

[miuan]

Yeah sounds good, the full Avalanche tune is $175.00.

do it!!! you won't regret it! and if you happen to have avy insert an extra 1/4" topout bumper to make it 8.5x2.5", all the better. really.

maybe you could also try to have some new dropouts machined so you shorten the CS, but looking at the pics, there is not much space left.

finally, put those conti suckers into trashcan and purchase a 2-ply DH tire for both wheels. buy wide bars, give your brakes a good bleed and enjoy the ride.

 

[KavuRider]

Yeah sounds good, the full Avalanche tune is $175.00.
I have been offered a new Fox Vanilla Rc for £65.00 but it is 9" and may not fit.
As the 5th is 8.75".

Local guy bought an old blown 5th Element, had it rebuilt by Avy. He has it on an '09 Stinky. He is raving about it, says it feels amazing.

Most definitely worth it I think.

 

[norbar]

Go on the dirtmag site. They found the irish guy that does the offset shock bushings for geo adjustment. It might be a good option.

 

[ramstein-dh]

Hello

Thanks again for the help.
I thought Avalanche would not tough a blown shock?
I may consider it , but there is the postage there and back ,plus i could get slammed with import tax.
May end up costing me £200.00
Which i will not have for like 4 months lol , also he only takes paypal.
Which i no longer use due to being scammed.

May sell something to fund it though.

There is a Avalanche woodie on pinkbike for £100.00 and it is new, but 9.5"
Craig at Avalanche said if i sent it too him he could make it 222mm for me

Thanks again

Jason