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Diesels in the US

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,504
20,303
Sleazattle
I spent the past two weeks driving a large Vauxhall (GM) station wagon in England. It had a small diesel engine that has 140 hp and 280 lb/ft of torque. It was a blast to drive and I got about 45 MPG. This engine is built by GM, why the hell don't don't we have them available over here?
 

Five

Turbo Monkey
Mar 8, 2003
1,506
0
West Seattle, WA
Starting for 08 VW and Mercedes is your only option for passenger cars running diesel. I run an 04 jetta wagon diesel and love it. In Europe you can even get the Chrysler 300 as a diesel getting about 43 mpg highway.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,290
13,400
Portland, OR
In Australia, there are Toyota trucks with inline 6 diesels that are awesome. Very good power:weight ratios and get killer mileage too. I would love to have one and run it on veggie, but they have never been offered here.

You can occasionally find a diesel Land Cruiser, but that's it and those aren't that easy to locate either. So I hear you, and feel your pain.
 

Zia Monkey

Chimp
Nov 12, 2004
49
0
I spent the past two weeks driving a large Vauxhall (GM) station wagon in England. It had a small diesel engine that has 140 hp and 280 lb/ft of torque. It was a blast to drive and I got about 45 MPG. This engine is built by GM, why the hell don't don't we have them available over here?
I think it might have something to do with the emissions standards in California. Auto makers don't want to make 2 different versions of the same car anymore. IMO....
 

gonefirefightin

free wieners
the problem is that the fuel over here is stone age diesel. by the year 2007 the US was mandated to run at least "low sulfur" diesel. they only moved one step to "diesel #2" and now if you own a 2007 or newer diesel it requires "ultra low sulfur" wich is still at least two years from being implemented at all the pumps. the auto manufactuers are stuck because due to emissions standards they wont be able to sell and standard bruing block and still pass emissions standards and the public wont buy a motor that has only a few truck stops that carry the fuel they need. dodge/chrystler/jeep was able to squeeze in a few rigs with a mild emissions motor but none of them were for sale in the highest emission control states such as california. these vehicles were there diesel jeep liberty and the sprinter vans.

we are going to have to wait a while until the pumps catch up with the auto market. it cost the average ma and pop gas station to change thier set up.

my truck (2008 F350 dually) has the new twin turbo 6.4 liter diesel in it and when i can find a pump that carries ultra low sulfur diesel it will put out 32 mpg unhooked with 390 hp and 680 ftlbs if tourque.

and is cleaner than most gas engines.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,504
20,303
Sleazattle
the problem is that the fuel over here is stone age diesel. by the year 2007 the US was mandated to run at least "low sulfur" diesel. they only moved one step to "diesel #2" and now if you own a 2007 or newer diesel it requires "ultra low sulfur" wich is still at least two years from being implemented at all the pumps. the auto manufactuers are stuck because due to emissions standards they wont be able to sell and standard bruing block and still pass emissions standards and the public wont buy a motor that has only a few truck stops that carry the fuel they need. dodge/chrystler/jeep was able to squeeze in a few rigs with a mild emissions motor but none of them were for sale in the highest emission control states such as california. these vehicles were there diesel jeep liberty and the sprinter vans.

we are going to have to wait a while until the pumps catch up with the auto market. it cost the average ma and pop gas station to change thier set up.

my truck (2008 F350 dually) has the new twin turbo 6.4 liter diesel in it and when i can find a pump that carries ultra low sulfur diesel it will put out 32 mpg unhooked with 390 hp and 680 ftlbs if tourque.

and is cleaner than most gas engines.
Thanks, I knew it was an emmisions issue but I thought it was with the engines. Infrastructure is much harder to update than an engine design.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,504
20,303
Sleazattle
bacon, yes.

beer? maybe a tie.

Their mass produced beer is better than our mass produced beer, but I had to look for places that had anything other than mass produced stuff. Locally I can find nice craft beers pretty much anywhere they sell beer.
 

chrismac

Chimp
Nov 3, 2006
46
0
IMO its because the north american market (purchasing and selling) is stuck on the traditional impression of what diesel is.. slow, smelly, and hard to start in the winter (slow to start always), usa is far to impatient for this! especailly while gas has been cheap. in modern times this cannot be farther from the truth.

i believe now that effieciency is becoming a larger issue to the automotive masses, i see diesel making a stronger presence in the NA market in the next 5 years, by all auto makers, domestic and foreign. The cost to savings ratio (money and emissions) will be cheaper than hybrid and fuel cell technology (and others) and easier to implement... heck its already going. the diesel grade and quality is another issue though, the market needs to shift, which will take time. I have wondered this same thing many a time, toyota makes a diesel tacoma.. i want one!

Ive also read that bio-diesel is more redily available in europe.. in blend and pure (B5 to B100).. is this true Westy?
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,851
8,456
Nowhere Man!
You hit your head didn't you? 99% of American beer is basically the pisswater of the beer world.
That may be true. But I don't drink it or know anyone that does. Most of the Pubs I go to have great local craft brewed beer on tap and in the bottle.
 

gonefirefightin

free wieners
IMO its because the north american market (purchasing and selling) is stuck on the traditional impression of what diesel is.. slow, smelly, and hard to start in the winter (slow to start always), usa is far to impatient for this! especailly while gas has been cheap. in modern times this cannot be farther from the truth.

i believe now that effieciency is becoming a larger issue to the automotive masses, i see diesel making a stronger presence in the NA market in the next 5 years, by all auto makers, domestic and foreign. The cost to savings ratio (money and emissions) will be cheaper than hybrid and fuel cell technology (and others) and easier to implement... heck its already going. the diesel grade and quality is another issue though, the market needs to shift, which will take time. I have wondered this same thing many a time, toyota makes a diesel tacoma.. i want one!

Ive also read that bio-diesel is more redily available in europe.. in blend and pure (B5 to B100).. is this true Westy?
in the last 3 years less diesels have been sold by the big three than any year ever due to the emerging madates with fuel consumption and emission regulations. this has at least prompted the manufacturers to catch up with the curve but in the mean time the fuel industry is not budging for a small list of pump cost. considering consumers (daily drivers) are 60 percent of pump volume, trucking in dustry is 30 percent of the volume and the dieel pickups are the rest I dont see a big change in things to come. although peterbuilt and freightliner are now putting out ultra low diesel engines in thier new truck and this may make a wave of change but there is still one problem.

some of the gas station are going to bio fuels and or ethonal based fuels wich will kill a diesel that is not prepped to handle these fuels. alot of the pumps here in the states now have 10-40 % ethanol in thier diesel blends wich means if you had a standard burning motor now you have to add a cetane booster in order to get the same quality of fuel you once used.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
63
behind the viewfinder
Their mass produced beer is better than our mass produced beer, but I had to look for places that had anything other than mass produced stuff. Locally I can find nice craft beers pretty much anywhere they sell beer.
but if stuff like Youngs or Theakston is considered mass-produced (and i think it's fairly easy found in england), then i'd say it's easily on par w/ most US craft beers.

however, if you are a hophead, chances are you'd be disappointed w/ the ales, porters and bitters found in ole blighty.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,504
20,303
Sleazattle
but if stuff like Youngs or Theakston is considered mass-produced (and i think it's fairly easy found in england), then i'd say it's easily on par w/ most US craft beers.

however, if you are a hophead, chances are you'd be disappointed w/ the ales, porters and bitters found in ole blighty.
Most places I saw in Birmingham only offered beers like Heineken, Stella and Fosters and a bitter like John Smiths or Speckled hen. When I visited family in Wisbech I found some nice places with small scale local bitters that I really liked but it seems like it seemed to be the exception. In general too much tap and shelf space is taken up by cider.
 

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,683
4,912
North Van
I actually like American beers more than most of the Canadian stuff I can get around here. e.g. Adirondack Ale, Harpoon, Red Hook etc...
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,504
20,303
Sleazattle
Is the BMW 1 series gonna be available in diesel here when they release it in the US in 08?

That was an awesome looking car. Looks like 4 door version of the old m-coupe. I liked the wide range of available hatches, even the Toyota Corolla.

118 D
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
the problem is that the fuel over here is stone age diesel. by the year 2007 the US was mandated to run at least "low sulfur" diesel. they only moved one step to "diesel #2" and now if you own a 2007 or newer diesel it requires "ultra low sulfur" wich is still at least two years from being implemented at all the pumps. the auto manufactuers are stuck because due to emissions standards they wont be able to sell and standard bruing block and still pass emissions standards and the public wont buy a motor that has only a few truck stops that carry the fuel they need. dodge/chrystler/jeep was able to squeeze in a few rigs with a mild emissions motor but none of them were for sale in the highest emission control states such as california. these vehicles were there diesel jeep liberty and the sprinter vans.

we are going to have to wait a while until the pumps catch up with the auto market. it cost the average ma and pop gas station to change thier set up.

my truck (2008 F350 dually) has the new twin turbo 6.4 liter diesel in it and when i can find a pump that carries ultra low sulfur diesel it will put out 32 mpg unhooked with 390 hp and 680 ftlbs if tourque.

and is cleaner than most gas engines.
You are more wrong than right.

The ULS diesel was implemented due to the effect it has on the after-treatement devices like particulate filters and lean NOx traps. ULS is actually more harmful to engines, since sulfur is a lubricating additive. Hence its absense is more harmful. The regs to push for lower sulfur fuel was a knee jerk reaction to the EPA's SAE report on lowering diesel emissions back in the early 2000s. What a sham.

Don't believe in what sticker on the pump tells you.

However the diesel market never fully took off due to a few things.

1. The horrible taste the market has in its mouth from the late 70s diesel experiment (ala Oldsmobile diesel)

2. The grip that the old school big three has over law makers and the market.

3. California.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,504
20,303
Sleazattle
Ive also read that bio-diesel is more redily available in europe.. in blend and pure (B5 to B100).. is this true Westy?

I have no idea. After two weeks an 475 miles I only stopped at one gas station, that wasn't bio but I can't say if it wasn't available anywhere else.

Personally I don't like the idea of biodiesel that much unless you are talking about production from waste oil. Plowing up more forests to grow crops to fuel cars isn't much better than burning fossil. Diesel from other plant sources like algae seems promising but from what I know it has not been put into any large scale production yet.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
I want a 4wd Ranger diesel. I like the size and handling of my Ranger, I just want it in diesel. I wish they'd get their heads out of their butts.