[WonderBoy]

Hi There

Having been noting but impressed with the level of performance from my SRS guide I have just bought a LG1 guide to go on my new Nomad. I have a set of RaceFace Atlas cranks and a 36 tooth DMR

I checked both e-13´s online guidepicker and their 2006 fitchart before buying the guide by mailorder.

When I mount everything up, quite a few problems accured:

Although I have put both spacers on the BB axel on the driveside (=50mm chainline) and have used no spacers at all on the guide, the teeth on the chainring is not centered in the two guides. They sit too far inward. I can´t move the chainguide further inward, and the driveside crank is spaced out as far as possible! I might add that I have used the mounting plate because the Nomad isn´t born with ISCG-05 tabs. And yes; the mounting plate is the right way on.

Has anyone else had problems with this setup? I have mailed E-13 about it, but they haven´t come up with a solution as of yet other than asking if everything was mountet correctly wich it is...

I can´t see a soultion that would not incorporate bending both arms of the guide, and quite frankly, I haven´t spend this much money on a chainguide just to manhandle it in this way to make it fit.

I hope that you can provide me with a solution, so that I do not have to be stuck with a guide that don´t fit. I am pretty sure I can´t return the guide, as it has been mounted already.

Regards, Emil

 

[J5ive]

Need more info...
Chainring inside? Outside?
ISCG adapter plate under/between/infront bb spacers?
ISCG adapter facing inboard or outboard?

Not sure if its even close, But I had no probs with LG1 on Blur 4x with holzfella cranks.

 

[wysiwyg]

having fitted a DMR saturn ring to a mates SRS the other day, i can tell thee the ring is pretty darn wide and far from ideal

 

[dw]

Hi There

Having been noting but impressed with the level of performance from my SRS guide I have just bought a LG1 guide to go on my new Nomad. I have a set of RaceFace Atlas cranks and a 36 tooth DMR

I checked both e-13´s online guidepicker and their 2006 fitchart before buying the guide by mailorder.

When I mount everything up, quite a few problems accured:

Although I have put both spacers on the BB axel on the driveside (=50mm chainline) and have used no spacers at all on the guide, the teeth on the chainring is not centered in the two guides. They sit too far inward. I can´t move the chainguide further inward, and the driveside crank is spaced out as far as possible! I might add that I have used the mounting plate because the Nomad isn´t born with ISCG-05 tabs. And yes; the mounting plate is the right way on.

Has anyone else had problems with this setup? I have mailed E-13 about it, but they haven´t come up with a solution as of yet other than asking if everything was mountet correctly wich it is...

I can´t see a soultion that would not incorporate bending both arms of the guide, and quite frankly, I haven´t spend this much money on a chainguide just to manhandle it in this way to make it fit.

I hope that you can provide me with a solution, so that I do not have to be stuck with a guide that don´t fit. I am pretty sure I can´t return the guide, as it has been mounted already.

Regards, Emil

HI Emil,

The LG1 will work with a 48.5 or higher chainline, which is narrower than what many other guides on the market are capable of, so the guide is probably not the issue. I have set up quite a few LG1s for pro riders on Race Face cranks, and they are a snap to intsall, super quick and easy. I would deduct from that the following:

The issue has to be that your cranks and chainring combination are giving you a less than 48.5 chainline. These are X-type cranks, correct?

Things to check:

1) Do you have the correct spacers on the BB spindle?
2) If your bike has a 68mm shell, are you using the included 2.5mm BB spacer on the drive side? (# 1 issue that we see with riders assembling drivelines)
3) If you have X-type cranks, then your BB will have 2 2.5mm BB spacers on the drive side for 68mm shell, or 1 2.5mm BB spacer on the drive side for a 73mm shell. If you are using the included ISCG/ISCG 05 mount, then it will replace the outermost spacer.
4) Does your chainring have some ridiculously wide step on it? If so, can you flip it over to get the teeth closer to your mounting spider? That could be throwing your chainline off so that it is narrower than 48.5. Ideally, you want your chainline around 52.5 for a single ring, so you want to do what you can to get it more outboard.

I am sure the guys in the office will have more to say, but here's a start.

Hope this helps.

Dave

 

[dw]

having fitted a DMR saturn ring to a mates SRS the other day, i can tell thee the ring is pretty darn wide and far from ideal

That makes sense then

chainring step affects chainline.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

That makes sense then

chainring step affects chainline.

pffffft this guy thinks he knows everything...



neaky:

 

[WonderBoy]

HI Emil,

The LG1 will work with a 48.5 or higher chainline, which is narrower than what many other guides on the market are capable of, so the guide is probably not the issue. I have set up quite a few LG1s for pro riders on Race Face cranks, and they are a snap to intsall, super quick and easy. I would deduct from that the following:

The issue has to be that your cranks and chainring combination are giving you a less than 48.5 chainline. These are X-type cranks, correct?

Things to check:

1) Do you have the correct spacers on the BB spindle?
2) If your bike has a 68mm shell, are you using the included 2.5mm BB spacer on the drive side? (# 1 issue that we see with riders assembling drivelines)
3) If you have X-type cranks, then your BB will have 2 2.5mm BB spacers on the drive side for 68mm shell, or 1 2.5mm BB spacer on the drive side for a 73mm shell. If you are using the included ISCG/ISCG 05 mount, then it will replace the outermost spacer.
4) Does your chainring have some ridiculously wide step on it? If so, can you flip it over to get the teeth closer to your mounting spider? That could be throwing your chainline off so that it is narrower than 48.5. Ideally, you want your chainline around 52.5 for a single ring, so you want to do what you can to get it more outboard.

I am sure the guys in the office will have more to say, but here's a start.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Hi Dave

sadly all thing are mountet the correct way:
73mm BB, iscg 05 mountingplate fittet the right way round and replacing spacer on BB.
Both 1mm spacers on the spindle is on the driveside.
The chainring is NOT the problem. The outside of the teeth are FLUSH with the outside of the chainring giving me a wider chainline than a regular rhainring where the teeth are centered.

Basically: The chainguide cannot be moved inward, and the chainring cannot be moved outward (without placing it on the outside of the spider wich is not an option without spacing the guides out from the backplate with washers...)

Regards, Emil

 

[heikkihall]

If you could snap a few pictures I might be able to help you. I recently set up several bikes with Atlas Cranks and an LG guide and everything went together no problem. I will admit that I do not have any experience with the Nomad frame but that should not be a problem as long as I know what size BB shell it has.

 

[WonderBoy]

Hi Hekkihall
I´ll try and post some pictures a little later.

 

[dw]

Hi Hekkihall
I´ll try and post some pictures a little later.

Just send them over to support@e13components.com. The guide definitely fits your bike and your cranks, so I am confident that Derek or Jonas can get you set up right. I am sure that it is something very very simple. There is not much to installing the guide.

dAve

 

[WonderBoy]

Hi Dave

I sent some pictures over to Derek earlier today. I am able to fit the guide, but it is not the best fit ever, and I can´t see any way to improve it...
I also measured my chainline, and it is 50mm, so should be OK, but somehow isn´t.

Regards, Emil

 

[WonderBoy]

As shown in the pictures, the chainguide can be mounted, but even with a chainline of 50mm (measured yesterday, and stated by RaceFace) there is only 0.5mm clearence on the inside of the chain/upper guide.

Also notice that the teeth on the chainguide is flush with the outside surface giving me a wider chainline than with a "normal" chainring where the teeht are centered. There are NO WAY that this guide in combination with these cranks could run with a 48,5 chainline...

The last problem is that even without the bottom guide, I am not able to get enough foreward rotation to the upper guide for it to run as quiet as possible.

The solution I am leaning towards, are to make a new backplate myself...not really what you want from a new product...

Regards, Emil

 

[wysiwyg]

that rings wider than my wrist!

 

[dw]

Hi Emil,

I can tell you that ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT, THE LG1 WILL RUN WITH A T 48.5MM CHAINLINE AS YOU HAVE IT SET UP.

I put this in bold letters because it is a guarantee. Every e.thirteen guide, SRS, or LG1 has been able to fit a 48.5 chainline since the very very first SRS guides we made in 2002. The dimensions have never changed, the back plate thickness has never changed, the composite slider thicknesses have never changed. We also do random checks on all metal parts, not to say its impossible that there is a defect, but highly, highly unlikely.

I would bet anything that you need to add more spacers that come with your cranks on the spindle.

Basically you are running a chainline narrower than 48.5mm. We have set this combination of cranks and guide up many times on 68mm and 73mm shells. It can be done easily. You just need to space your craks to the right chainline. No other guide that I know of can set up narrower than an e,thirteen, so the problem you have would be worse with any other product on the market.

Perhaps your cranks are defective?

On your top slider, rotate it so that the cross brace under the chain is about 3mm from your chainring.

I am confident that if you send this information to Derek at e.thirteen, he can walk you through setting up the cranks to be a 48.5mm or wider chainline. support@e13components.com We want to get this sorted for you, ther is a simple solution or reason for this, and its almost definitely crank chainline related.

Hope this helps

Dave

 

[WonderBoy]

Hi Dave,

I have set the crankset up with the two supplied shims on the driveside of the spindle. It is not possible to get the driveside further outboard. This gives me a chainline of 50mm. As I wrote, I measured it yesterday, and the RF manual states this also. The distance from the backside of the chainring mounting tabs to the outside of the backplate is 8.5mm.

I am very puzzled myself, I have to admit...

Regards, Emil

 

[dw]

OK, I took a monment to look up the istructions for the Atlas cranks I have here. You can set them up for a 48, 49, or 50mm chainline.

Here's a link to the PDF

http://www.raceface.com/tech/inst/EvolveXC-AtlasCrankset.pdf

For the 50mm chainline, you need to use the following:

(from step 3 in the instructions)

BB spacers:

Non-drive side: 0X BB spacers

Drive side: 1X ISCG 05 mount form e.thirteen only

Chainline setup:

(from step 4 in the RF instructions)

Non drive side:
0X spacer seal (only preload elastomer)

Drive Side:
2X spacer seal (black)

I hope that this helps to clear things up for you, but if not, contact Derek directly at 978 537 9E13, or support@e13components.com.

Off to the US Open!

Dave

 

[dw]

Hi Dave,

I have set the crankset up with the two supplied shims on the driveside of the spindle. It is not possible to get the driveside further outboard. This gives me a chainline of 50mm. As I wrote, I measured it yesterday, and the RF manual states this also. The distance from the backside of the chainring mounting tabs to the outside of the backplate is 8.5mm.

I am very puzzled myself, I have to admit...

Regards, Emil

Hi Emil,

The distance from the back plate to the chainring mounting tabs should be EXACTLY 9.5mm for your setup.

You are missing 1mm there in your chainline!

Here's some more support for that.

The BB shell is 73mm wide. 73/2=36.5mm

50mm chainline- 36.5mm BB shell half-width = 13.5mm.

Back plate is 4mm thick, so 13.5mm - 4mm = 9.5mm.

Now, I see a step on that chainring, so if your tabs are currently set at 49mm (which I think we can agree that they are based on your measurements), and you have a step in the ring, then its entirely possible that you are below 48.5mm, assuming that step is more than 0.5mm.

Simple solution, check to make sure you have 2 black spacers on the drive side of your spindle and not one on each side.

We are getting closer....

Dave

 

[WonderBoy]

Hi Dave

I have mountet it all the right way. I am SURE of it, and that is what bothers me. The two small spacers are on the driveside, supposedly giving a 50mm chainline.

As I have stated before, the teeth on the chainring is flush with the outside of the ring (also visible in picture 3). I have mountet it back-side out just to be able to run the chain. The step is on the backside (visible in picture 2), and does therefore not effect chainline.

It seems that the problem is in the cranks not quite achiving the stated 50mm chainline. Actually they are off by 1mm!

I guess that RaceFace should be prepared for a mail!

Emil

 

[WonderBoy]

:mumble:

update:

The problem is not the chainguide, but the cranks. All thet can be done in order to get a wider chaineline is done, but I still miss 1mm form the claimed chainline of 50mm that RF states the atlas cranks have...

I have written to RF, but they just have this to say: ... "if your guide exceeds our 2.5mm maximimum then the chainline mentioned could never be reached. Check the thickness of your guide plate-then check back"
I wrote to them saying that the guide is 2,5mm thick, and never heard another word.

So, this problem is still unsolved. I have reached the point where I either bend the backplate, buy a new crankset, or just run a fixed front derailleur for a chainguide. I dont seem to get anywhere with RF customerservice, and the guys at e-13, although they have been very helpfull, can´t really help, as the problem is not on thier part.

Regards, Emil

 

[J5ive]

Why not grind the 1mm off the back of the plastics? I'm thinking belt sander. Plastics are cheap if it doesn't work out.

 

[WonderBoy]

indeed, why not...

It is a good solution, but I think I might instead just make a new backplate and just have it with a 1mm stepdown where the plastic parts attach.

 

[ILikeFood]

Hi There

Having been noting but impressed with the level of performance from my SRS guide I have just bought a LG1 guide to go on my new Nomad. I have a set of RaceFace Atlas cranks and a 36 tooth DMR

I checked both e-13´s online guidepicker and their 2006 fitchart before buying the guide by mailorder.

When I mount everything up, quite a few problems accured:

Although I have put both spacers on the BB axel on the driveside (=50mm chainline) and have used no spacers at all on the guide, the teeth on the chainring is not centered in the two guides. They sit too far inward. I can´t move the chainguide further inward, and the driveside crank is spaced out as far as possible! I might add that I have used the mounting plate because the Nomad isn´t born with ISCG-05 tabs. And yes; the mounting plate is the right way on.

Has anyone else had problems with this setup? I have mailed E-13 about it, but they haven´t come up with a solution as of yet other than asking if everything was mountet correctly wich it is...

I can´t see a soultion that would not incorporate bending both arms of the guide, and quite frankly, I haven´t spend this much money on a chainguide just to manhandle it in this way to make it fit.

I hope that you can provide me with a solution, so that I do not have to be stuck with a guide that don´t fit. I am pretty sure I can´t return the guide, as it has been mounted already.

Regards, Emil

I had the exact same problem a couple of weeks ago installing an E13 DRS with Atlas cranks on my 73mm BB shell, and here is how I fixed it:

Switch out the 3.5mm elastomer for the 2.5mm one. Add in another 1mm spacer on the drive side. This fixed my spacing issue, and did not seem to overly tighten or drag on the bearings. I've been meaning to ask E13 about this solution, but I haven't found the time to email them.

I've been running mine this way for about 20-30 hours of riding with no problems, but I'd imagine I'm side-loading the bearings a bit much.

Oh, I assume you took out one of the drive side BB spacers (so you have none on 73mm and one on each for 68mm)...

-f00d

 

[J5ive]

Just make the backplate 3mm thick then?

I still think something is wrong. Have you measured you BB shell? Is it indeed 73mm? Perhaps its been overfaced?

Shimano makes a 0.75mm spacer for 10speed cassettes. Could you add this between the bb cup and ISCG adapter, might get it over just enough without effecting BB bearings.

 

[J5ive]

Umm, thinking more... throwing things up.

Could this chainring be made for 8 speed stuff? 8 and 9 speed rings are compatible with both chains but the 8 speed is thicker right?

 

[WonderBoy]

let me say this once and for all: There is NOTHING wrong with the way I have mountes anything. The guys at e-13 asked this more than a few times, the guys at RF did also, and just about everybody in the forums I have posted in...

In my initial post I have quite clearly described how I have mounted everything, and it is not wrong.

J5ive, I´m not shouting at you for asking me this, but I am just very tired of telling everybody that nothing about the way things are set up are wrong. It is as if nobody trust what I write, and automatically rule out the possibility that there might actually be a problem with the product, and not my mechanical skills...

regards, Emil

 

[WonderBoy]

As I have stated before, the teeth on the chainring is flush with the outside of the ring (also visible in picture 3). I have mountet it back-side out just to be able to run the chain. The step is on the backside (visible in picture 2), and does therefore not effect chainline.

Emil

Just to quote myselv

So, no, the chainring is not the problem.

 

[J5ive]

Mate, not knocking your mechanical skills at all. Don't take it that way. Just trying to help out. Have you checked you BB shell width? If its 72 or 74mm, this could stuff things up. I've installed ****loads of guides and I'm definatly better at 'doing' than trying to think it through, but often you need to step outside the square and 'make it work'.

 

[WonderBoy]

bb is 73mm on the dot! (faced and all)

And I appreciate you trying to help me out, but I think the solution to this particular problem is called "what part to modify?"

 

[J5ive]

But have you tried another ring? Just for ****s and giggles.

Today I found out that theres two size 24x1&3/8th BMX race tyres/- 520 and 540. A good mechanic trys new stuff and learns as they go- they make the best of the products on offer. By all means the product could be faulty, it might have been a friday arve job. Their maths might just be off.

I'd be modding it to make it work. Easy, sorted.

 

[Castle]

I vote dump the race face cranks...... They may seem more adjustable with there multiple chainline spacers and so on but I had nothing but headaches out of mine. (plus multiple sets on customers bikes) I know that's not really gonna help you much but that's probably what I'd do in this situation.

There shouldn't be any reason why you shouldn't be able to set that guide up on that bike with those cranks...... however **** happens

I've set that guide up on that frame 4 times; twice with howitzer set up and twice with shimano outboard cranks (hone/xt).....

 

[SylentK]

You know, after reading this thread and after taking the Nomad on several DH shuttle runs, I don't think I really need a chainguide. Just with the stock Atlas cranks, I have yet to throw a chain. This is even after hauling mail down a fast, rough "dh" trail....several, several times keeping up (just barely) with the teammates on their full-blown race sleds. I bought a DRS, but I think I'll save it for later. Although replacing the big ring for the bash guard may be in order...

Now watch...after I post this, I'll throw a chain just hopping off a curb! Hahahaha

 

[jvnixon]

you could put the spacers flush on the bb/frame. That would move your chain guide.

 

[WonderBoy]

you could put the spacers flush on the bb/frame. That would move your chain guide.

ahhh..you lost me just after "you"...

 

[-dustin]

i say go purchase a 1mm bb spacer and slap that onto the driveside.

 

[jvnixon]

ahhh..you lost me just after "you"...

See attached image. Put the spacers touching the frame as i note on the 2nd picture.

 

[Cave Dweller]

I'll have a crack at this.

I am 99% sure your chain ring is on back the front. The step should be on the outside and the flush part should be on the inside.

This will make the ring rub worse which is maybe why you have it that way.

I think with the DMR ring you have you may need to mount it on the outside cranks tabs and space out the LG-1 from the ISGC mount around 1-2mm to get it set up right.

Good luck

 

[WonderBoy]

See attached image. Put the spacers touching the frame as i note on the 2nd picture.

hmm.. putting spacers there would make the chainguide move further outboard. I need the opposite....And the spacing between the two bearing cups would also become too wide. This is outboard bearings.

I'll have a crack at this.

I am 99% sure your chain ring is on back the front. The step should be on the outside and the flush part should be on the inside.

This will make the ring rub worse which is maybe why you have it that way.

I think with the DMR ring you have you may need to mount it on the outside cranks tabs and space out the LG-1 from the ISGC mount around 1-2mm to get it set up right.

Good luck

Yes the chainring is mounted the "wrong" way to give addede clearence. If I mount the chainring on the outside of the tabs, I get a chainline I think would be too wide for proper shifting. I have thought about it, but decided not to try it. Thanks for the advice though ;-) My real problem is that I would NOT be able to run the guide with a "regular" chainring that has a step on both sides.