[MCCOYBOY]

So I took my new bike out for it's first ride this past weekend and now I'm curious if all $6k DH bikes are assembled this poorly from the factory? My problems started 100 yards into the first ride when I was catapulted over the bars by what felt like way to little rebound damping. So I started adjusting the rebound and found my problem right away. ALL the suspension adjustments front and rear were set full soft! Is this normal for a new bike? I proceeded to ride and tune the suspension and after swapping the fork and shock springs I got it pretty dialed for the wisp at least.

The next issue was the steering head started popping during hard breaking. The bike came with a cheap set of 1.5 degree head angle cups installed that I opted to remove and install the 0 degree cups that Giant supplied instead. I figured the bearings and races just needed to seat completely so I readjusted the head set and the popping went away for a few runs but shortly after it returned again. I've read complaints about this issue somewhere but never found a resolution. I continued to re torque the head tube throughout the day and eventually the popping was minimized to only once or twice when riding the front wheel down the trail.

Then the issue that caused the second crash happened. I was getting ready to do a wheely drop and when I went to pedal off the drop I found I was in the wrong gear. So over the bars I went lol.... I picked myself up and was annoyed because I was sure I was in the right gear but I figured I would try again and found out when I tried to shift that the derailleur cable was no longer secured to the derailleur so it came to rest on the stop screw in the lowest gear. After re torquing the derailleur bolt that holds the cable and adjusting the derailleur I was back to riding.

The final issue came towards the end of the day. I was adjusting the ending rebound stroke adjuster on the Rock Shok R2C2 and was amazed to see shock oil seeping from the adjuster. WTF? It only seeped during adjustments so I let it be until I can contact them today.

So my Sunday night I was tasked with going over all the remaining bolts to assure there proper torque and wandering to myself if every high end DH bike is assembled so poorly. Thoughts?

 

[p-spec]

OUCH


1,not all 6000$ bikes are equipped with sram products,that are very well known for mass production,so more chances of ishues/warrenty claims.

the der cable,is a serious poor job on your bike shop not doing a proper prep on ANY bike either 400$ to 20 000$

suspension set-up,

everyone has a different body build and weight,this is normal on any bike that the suspension out the box may not conform to your pleasure and a bit of fine tuning may be required.

 

[jnooth]

In my opinion you should check over your own bike before riding it. yes the shop should have assembled if correctly but it sounds like all the problems you ran into (except the oil coming out of the fork) could have been prevented by a simple 2 minute check of the bike with some allen keys. It is common for suspension to not come set to ride. That is something that every rider (most of the time with help from the shop) needs to set up before you take the bike out.

 

[Inclag]

In my opinion you should check over your own bike before riding it. yes the shop should have assembled if correctly but it sounds like all the problems you ran into (except the oil coming out of the fork) could have been prevented by a simple 2 minute check of the bike with some allen keys. It is common for suspension to not come set to ride. That is something that every rider (most of the time with help from the shop) needs to set up before you take the bike out.

FYI, most all suspension knobs (including brake levers adjusters) will weep some lubricant or oil upon first use as a result of assembly lubricants applied at the factory. This is fairly common.

 

[kickstand]

1. The shop you bought the bike from did a ****ty job prepping your bike.
2. You spend $6k on a bike you should know better than to ride it without once overing all the parts.
3. You spend 6k on a bike you should be smart enough to know the suspension will take some tuning to fit you're body weight and riding style.

They see me trollin, they hatin.

 

[batts65]

Blame goes to the shop to start, but then on the rider for not double checking. (sounds like you know your way around a bike)

Not sure if the 2012 comes the same way as the 2011, mine was complete in the box except for the handlebars, the box is HUGE! (front wheel on and everything)

I went through my bike completely, checked every bolt and played with the suspension in the parking lot. I actually did not have to do anything to mine, it was pretty tight all the way through. Put the bars on and adjusted the brake levers and adjusted the shifting and went riding.

 

[jonKranked]

ishues?

 

[downhill mike]

Sounds like you got your bike dialed after just one ride. Good job dude!

 

[MCCOYBOY]

Guess I am just use to the dirt bike world where you buy a bike off the showroom floor it comes ready to ride. Hell I've been a motorcycle mechanic by trade for 12 years now and a motorcycle suspension tuner for 6 years. I just got into the bicycle scene and am starting to realize things are way different considering the money spent is nearly the same. I know if a motorcycle left our shop in the condition I received my bike in there would be heads rolling.

As far as the suspension is concerned I of all people didn't expect it to be setup perfectly out of the box but I honestly have never seen any suspension component wether shock or fork with all it's adjusters set to full soft from the factory. In the motorcycle world the suspension adjusters are usually set in the middle of there range and after I revalve a set of forks or shock I will set the adjusters in the center as well until the rider or myself can fine tune them.

I do think I should've went over the bike a little bit more thoroughly and will do so in the future but what do the guys or girls that have no knowledge of the workings of a bicycle do when there new bikes have issues? Also, does anyone know what the shop is responsible for when they sell a new bicycle? I know our setup department has a mandatory list they have to go over and sign off on that involves going over the bike and re torquing most if not all bolts.

 

[jonKranked]

downhill vs moto argument again.


bottom line is that moto industry is several degrees of magnitude larger than the (niche) dh segment of the (niche) mountain biking segment of the cycling industry. a single moto manufacturer probably sells more dirtbikes in a year than all the downhill bikes from all bike companies put together.

 

[MCCOYBOY]

FYI, most all suspension knobs (including brake levers adjusters) will weep some lubricant or oil upon first use as a result of assembly lubricants applied at the factory. This is fairly common.

Really? I don't buy this for a minute because I rebuild and re valve motorcycle suspension for a living and leaks of any kind are bad and not "result of assembly". I figure the o-ring used to seal off the adjuster has either been compromised by a piece of dirt or the bore is to large for the adjuster/o-ring combo. I'll know when I tear it down.

1. The shop you bought the bike from did a ****ty job prepping your bike.
2. You spend $6k on a bike you should know better than to ride it without once overing all the parts.
3. You spend 6k on a bike you should be smart enough to know the suspension will take some tuning to fit you're body weight and riding style.

They see me trollin, they hatin.

Having to setup the suspension for my weight and riding style was not part of my complaint it's the fact that all the adjusters were set full soft ( can't be normal ) . I knew I would have to do some adjusting and spring swaps but I like to break in the suspension first before fine tuning adjusters.

I also went over the bike before hand but this being my first new ride I didn't think about the cable lock on the deraillure. Live and learn.

Blame goes to the shop to start, but then on the rider for not double checking. (sounds like you know your way around a bike)

Not sure if the 2012 comes the same way as the 2011, mine was complete in the box except for the handlebars, the box is HUGE! (front wheel on and everything)

I went through my bike completely, checked every bolt and played with the suspension in the parking lot. I actually did not have to do anything to mine, it was pretty tight all the way through. Put the bars on and adjusted the brake levers and adjusted the shifting and went riding.

The shop said it came assembled in the box.

 

[jonKranked]

Really? I don't buy this for a minute because I rebuild and re valve motorcycle suspension for a living and leaks of any kind are bad and not "result of assembly". I figure the o-ring used to seal off the adjuster has either been compromised by a piece of dirt or the bore is to large for the adjuster/o-ring combo. I'll know when I tear it down.

allow me to reiterate:

dh != moto

 

[MCCOYBOY]

downhill vs moto argument again.


bottom line is that moto industry is several degrees of magnitude larger than the (niche) dh segment of the (niche) mountain biking segment of the cycling industry. a single moto manufacturer probably sells more dirtbikes in a year than all the downhill bikes from all bike companies put together.

So if the bicycle industry is so much smaller shouldn't it be easier to go over them and set them up properly for the consumer? I mean these bikes don't consist of a lot of parts to begin with so.... I also am not trying to start a moto vs bicycle dispute, it's just my area of expertise and what I have to compare against.

 

[frango]

MCCOYBOY, my monkey-friend, unfortunately for you, guys above are right. If you read manual, you'd probably find information about simple, short bolt check before every ride. This is what I do.
However, guys above miss one thing - popping headset.
It's not, that the headset installed on your Glory. It's 150$ retail (complete set, including 3 sets of different cups). SO, not much cheaper than CC angleset. Giant uses OEM version, just +/- 1,5* cups.
However, the problem with, both FSA and CC is that they have to be installed perfectly.
I did it with my FSA Orbit Option angleset already twice. And I am afraid, than I will have to do it again.
Check Pinkbike for an article about it.
Apart from PITA installing, it is good product.
There is one, simpler solution - K9 Industries. But they're product fits certain headtubes heights. CC and FSA fit most.

 

[marshalolson]

on a dh bike, plan on making sure a wrench hits every single nut and bolt at least once a month, including before the first ride, and certainly before every race.

did the shop get the sag and go over the adjustments with you prior to leaving? if not, then yeah... you need to do that.

 

[MCCOYBOY]

allow me to reiterate:

dh != moto

Suspension is suspension man. The oil seeped from around the adjuster and bubbled meaning the air pressure on the reservoir floating piston forced it out which also means the pressure in the reservoir is now decreased and the potential for cavitation is greater as a result. But what do I know.....?

 

[MCCOYBOY]

MCCOYBOY, my monkey-friend, unfortunately for you, guys above are right. If you read manual, you'd probably find information about simple, short bolt check before every ride. This is what I do.
However, guys above miss one thing - popping headset.
It's not, that the headset installed on your Glory. It's 150$ retail (complete set, including 3 sets of different cups). SO, not much cheaper than CC angleset. Giant uses OEM version, just +/- 1,5* cups.
However, the problem with, both FSA and CC is that they have to be installed perfectly.
I did it with my FSA Orbit Option angleset already twice. And I am afraid, than I will have to do it again.
Check Pinkbike for an article about it.
Apart from PITA installing, it is good product.
There is one, simpler solution - K9 Industries. But they're product fits certain headtubes heights. CC and FSA fit most.

Thanks for the info.

on a dh bike, plan on making sure a wrench hits every single nut and bolt at least once a month, including before the first ride, and certainly before every race.

did the shop get the sag and go over the adjustments with you prior to leaving? if not, then yeah... you need to do that.

Will do. It's not like there are a lot of bolts to go over anyways lol... Thanks for the info.

 

[cecil]

A friend just bought the same bike and is struggling with the angle set. Now he has dings and skufs on a bike that he has not ridden yet and an angle set issue

I'm so glad I passed on the glory and bought the demo 8

 

[MCCOYBOY]

A friend just bought the same bike and is struggling with the angle set. Now he has dings and skufs on a bike that he has not ridden yet and an angle set issue

I'm so glad I passed on the glory and bought the demo 8

I think the glory will suit me fine once I workout the bugs. I did ride a demo and they are super sweet also. I'm just a Giant fan I guess lol....

 

[jonKranked]

So if the bicycle industry is so much smaller shouldn't it be easier to go over them and set them up properly for the consumer? I mean these bikes don't consist of a lot of parts to begin with so.... I also am not trying to start a moto vs bicycle dispute, it's just my area of expertise and what I have to compare against.

Suspension is suspension man. The oil seeped from around the adjuster and bubbled meaning the air pressure on the reservoir floating piston forced it out which also means the pressure in the reservoir is now decreased and the potential for cavitation is greater as a result. But what do I know.....?

the products themselves are similar yes, but what you're missing here isn't how the products are similar, its how the manufacturing differs.

moto stuff is manufactured on scales several orders of magnitude higher than downhill bikes. i admit i'm not an expert on exactly how bikes and dirtbikes are made, but I do know a lot about economies of scale. when you're making a million of something vs a thousand of something, it's actually easier to ensure better consistency and fewer defects with the million than the thousand, assuming you understand the processes and how to control them.

not to mention, based on the size (and $) difference in the industries, companies like honda, yamaha, etc can afford to have teams employed just to ensure factory tune levels. When I lived in LA, one of my neighbors did just this for a living - ride anywhere from 30-60 different dirtbikes, each with a unique tune, in order to dial down factory settings (suspension, engine, trans, etc). bike companies can't afford this luxury. dh is a drop in the pond to bike companies (road bikes & accessories are where the $$ is). not to mention when it comes to suspension, there's so much more variability in the ratios of sprung to unsprung mass in bikes than there is in dirtbikes, there's almost no point to trying to determine a factory tune.

let's put it this way, right now, yea, it seems odd that dirtbikes and dh bikes can be bought new for relatively the same amount, despite there being so much more to a dirtbike. but if dirtbikes were produced in the same quantities as downhill bikes, they would cost north of $20,000, easily.

 

[ianjenn]

So if the bicycle industry is so much smaller shouldn't it be easier to go over them and set them up properly for the consumer? I mean these bikes don't consist of a lot of parts to begin with so.... I also am not trying to start a moto vs bicycle dispute, it's just my area of expertise and what I have to compare against.

The bike mechanics range from 16 year olds with 1 month "experience" to people that have been doing it 20 years. There is no UTI to be certified from. Some shops have tests for new hires to pass but most do not. Just check it all as was said. If its a showroom bike all it takes is a customer to open or close all the dials and the suspension is wacked.

 

[was?]

on a dh bike, plan on making sure a wrench hits every single nut and bolt at least once a month, including before the first ride, and certainly before every race.

medium loctite works wonders, no more bolts going rogue mid run. this shouldn't keep you from checking most bolts once a month.

 

[cecil]

I think the glory will suit me fine once I workout the bugs. I did ride a demo and they are super sweet also. I'm just a Giant fan I guess lol....

I have a 2011 reign it rides great I bet the glory is awesome also

 

[jonKranked]

The bike mechanics range from 16 year olds with 1 month "experience" to people that have been doing it 20 years. There is no UTI to be certified from. Some shops have tests for new hires to pass but most do not. Just check it all as was said. If its a showroom bike all it takes is a customer to open or close all the dials and the suspension is wacked.

not to mention even mechanics with a lot of experience might not have the slightest clue as to how to tune suspension.

 

[cecil]

not to mention even mechanics with a lot of experience might not have the slightest clue as to how to tune suspension.

The shop I bought my demo from told me I needed a 950 lb spring for the shock and to add air to the boxxer rc to set sag..... I also watched them open the box and assemble it

 

[MCCOYBOY]

not to mention, based on the size (and $) difference in the industries, companies like honda, yamaha, etc can afford to have teams employed just to ensure factory tune levels. When I lived in LA, one of my neighbors did just this for a living - ride anywhere from 30-60 different dirtbikes, each with a unique tune, in order to dial down factory settings (suspension, engine, trans, etc). bike companies can't afford this luxury. dh is a drop in the pond to bike companies (road bikes & accessories are where the $$ is). not to mention when it comes to suspension, there's so much more variability in the ratios of sprung to unsprung mass in bikes than there is in dirtbikes, there's almost no point to trying to determine a factory tune.

I don't expect the suspension to be tuned perfectly just some effort is all I ask for. Hell after doing some research I found recommendations from Rock Shox on a recommended starting point on there web site. I guess we will just agree to disagree on this point.

The bike mechanics range from 16 year olds with 1 month "experience" to people that have been doing it 20 years. There is no UTI to be certified from. Some shops have tests for new hires to pass but most do not. Just check it all as was said. If its a showroom bike all it takes is a customer to open or close all the dials and the suspension is wacked.

I noticed that most if not all the mechanics looked young but I also assumed the simplicity of a bicycle could be easily mastered with the right mentor. Heck if you spend an hour searching RM and PB you can learn just about anything you want to know about bicycles.

 

[MCCOYBOY]

medium loctite works wonders, no more bolts going rogue mid run. this shouldn't keep you from checking most bolts once a month.

I'm going to be doing just that this week. Some loctite 243 should do the trick.

I have a 2011 reign it rides great I bet the glory is awesome also

It's a great bike and really fits my riding style.

not to mention even mechanics with a lot of experience might not have the slightest clue as to how to tune suspension.

I agree. We have mechanics at my shop who have been wrenching for longer than I've been alive and they still have NO CLUE how to tune a shock or where to even begin.

 

[jonKranked]

I don't expect the suspension to be tuned perfectly just some effort is all I ask for. Hell after doing some research I found recommendations from Rock Shox on a recommended starting point on there web site. I guess we will just agree to disagree on this point.

i'm not disagreeing with you; just highlighting the differences between the two industries and the realities of it. a lot of things that many people take for granted in the moto industry are lacking in the bike industry, plain and simple. I definitely agree there's a lot of room for improvement, i'm just laying it out for how it is. modern dh bikes and their development/sales/service is a far less mature industry than moto.

 

[was?]

the basejumpers i've been talking to were quite satisfied with the evolution of their wingsuits, but that may be a totally different ballgame.

 

[General Lee]

Let me get this straight. You assumed the suspension was set up "in the middle" but didn't check before you went riding and that is somehow not 100% your fault? I don't think it matters where the adjusters were set, I can't understand why you didn't make some assessment of what it actually felt like before hitting the trail.

Seriously, who hops on an 8" travel bike and doesn't at least check what the rebound feels like? Take a little responsibility here.

*and don't be so quick to blame your suspension. Unlike moto you're on a bike that weights 120-150lb less than you do, your weight/body being in the wrong place will often have a lot more to do with getting tossed over the bars than the suspension.

Moral of the story: Set your bike up first. Then ride it.

 

[Wa-Aw]

Hell I've been a motorcycle mechanic by trade for 12 years now and a motorcycle suspension tuner for 6 years.

...and then you get a brand new out of the box DH bike and just ride it down the nearest hill without so much as checking the settings or whether things have been set up properly? No pre-ride check? With all due respect, you are full of sh*t.

Your bike was set up to hell but that's just how things work around here. It's not GIANT's fault, it's your shop's fault for poor assembly and your fault for not checking it out.

 

[General Lee]

Suspension is suspension man. The oil seeped from around the adjuster and bubbled meaning the air pressure on the reservoir floating piston forced it out which also means the pressure in the reservoir is now decreased and the potential for cavitation is greater as a result. But what do I know.....?

Apparently you don't know that the fork does not have a floating piston or a reservior and is not pressurized.


For what it's worth I've had Rockshox front and rear suspension adjusters that have seeped oil when brand new and were not leaky, and others that were. The presence of oil alone isn't indicative. Sometimes on my Vivid the small rebound adjuster on the side of the reservoir seeped a bit of oil if I screwed it way in or way out but it never leaked in 2 years. I had one that leaked from the factory.

 

[Huck Banzai]

I noticed that most if not all the mechanics looked young but I also assumed the simplicity of a bicycle could be easily mastered with the right mentor. Heck if you spend an hour searching RM and PB you can learn just about anything you want to know about bicycles.

Aside from the motor, tranny & electrics, a bicycle is not any simpler than a moto; Ive worked on both, although clueless to rebuilding shim stacks - the wrenching isnt anything tp be described as 'easier' except with regards to being able to work on a bicycle in a lot more places than a Moto. (I live on the 5th floor and have 3 bikes up here and a 'full shop' - Bringing a moto up here isnt an option (and the Landlord would agree)

I would never buy anything and expect it to be set for me like that; you're also comparing a Moto where the bike is more than 1/2 the weight to a bicycle where the rider is 2-7x the weight of the bike itself. That alone makes it a moot point to try to tune a given shock/fork/bike to be ready to go out of the shop. Its not a matter of agreeing, its just a practicality.

 

[daisycutter]

I the 2010 Glory with the saint package and have no issues with the bike. The brakes have been bleed once in a two years and the fork and shock rebuilt this year. Love the bike. That said most of the issues you discribe are related to your and your shop not checking the bike before riding. The Glory is a great bike but its only as good as the shop tuning it.

 

[4gnegative]

You should always check your bike, especially a new one, before you ride it. Any bike with the suspension set up wrong will handle and ride poorly. As far as the fsa angleset. It's not a bad set, like the cane creek they can be prone to popping. I've had good and bad luck with em and would prefer not too run one, but the glory has a steeper head angle for my liking and until a newer one with revised slacker geometry comes out the angleset is the glory's only solution for slacker geo.

 

[Evan55]

Come on man, who buys a $6k bike and doesnt even take an initial ballpark estimate of rebound and compression??? Who cares what its initially set to?

No idea about the head cups but Ive heard the exact same problem typical of this kind of headset. Not Giants fault.

Derailleur cable adjustment is not Giants fault, its the bike shops fault or whoever is in charge of final tuning.

Rockshox products have proven (to me) to be very unreliable. that isnt giant's fault, its rockshox's fault. Both my R2C2 and Boxxer that came on my GT were defective straight out of the box.

anyway, maybe Ill see you at wisp this year

 

[General Lee]

Guess I am just use to the dirt bike world where you buy a bike off the showroom floor it comes ready to ride. . . .

Hmmmmm......"20 Things To Check On Your New KTM"

(#15 is know your clicker settings. Go figure.)

http://www.dirtrider.com/tech/141_1104_things_to_check_on_your_new_ktm/viewall.html

I'm not moto guy, but I'd be skeptical of anything mass produced and remotely high-performance coming from the factory 'ready to ride.' And I equally doubt a shop will have gone over it with more than a cursory get-you-on-the-road(trail)-quickly effort.

 

[Pegboy]

This is the stuff that makes me want to scream. The attitude of some of the people on here is, in my mind, unbelievable.

For arguments sake, lets change the scenario slightly: Let's suppose that this bike was bought by a parent for their 14 yro kid who is enthusiastic about getting into DH but has little experience in regards to wrenching on his own bike. On the FIRST run something comes loose, the kid eats it and ends up in a wheelchair for life. This is gross negligence on the bike shops part, plain and simple. They are the liaison between the buyer and the manufacturer and absolutely should be held responsible...PERIOD! Any lawyer worth his salt would take that shop to the cleaners every time.

The fact that people put the blame on the buyer, in these cases, is exactly why the industry is this way. Sure, it makes sense to go over the bike before riding it and, for the more experienced riders, to set up the suspension but it should not be expected unless it is stated as such buy the dealer, and even then they should be offering to help or instruct you how to do so for a high end product (6k). Rebuild a fork out of the box?! Torque and locktite all the bolts on a brand-new bike?! What type of business ethics are we supporting here?

If that is the way a LBS is going to do business then they deserve to be driven out of business by online shops every time.
-Rant over-

 

[William42]

f'ing up on the der setting is stupid. Its an easy thing, and on a 6K bike it should have been perfect. That was 100% the shop.

It was also 100% the shops fault that your suspension settings were not ballparked prior to leaving the shop. Dialing in your suspension is up to you, and if you futz with the dials and make it feel worse, that's your fault, but every mfg that I know of these days (especially the big brands like trek, giant, and specialized) have very well documented/detailed setup guides on all of their bikes. It typically takes 5-10 minutes for a bike shop to set that up with you there, or if you just give them your weight they should be able to do it without you there. This literally involves going over the dials and making sure they're set to mfg recommendations for your weight/size.

I'll jump on the "make fun of you" bandwagon a little bit on the fact that you didn't notice that your suspension was off until you went over the bars, because usually if your suspension is far enough off that it's going to cause you to wreck, it's also pretty noticeable just by bouncing up and down on it. But that's rider error, and we've all been there

I wouldn't sweat a little bit of oil leakage upon first adjustment. That's pretty typical on most shocks. If it doesn't go away after a ride or two, its not typical, and its time to start getting enraged.

In short, the bike was setup poorly. While giant makes great bikes, the people who assemble at the factory them have little to no idea what they're doing, and they need a little more care in the build up. I'd say it was the shop not doing due diligence and setting it up correctly, coupled with giant having kind of sh1tty builds.

However, once you get it setup correctly, you'll have a blast on it, it's a great bike, really nice components, and its going to ride great. And while it would honestly be nice to make the shop do it, if you have the wherewithal and know how to do it yourself, I'd recommend that route since if a shop can't be trusted to setup a really high end der correctly on a new 6K bike for a customer (particularly one paying full retail, but the same principal still holds for everybody else too) then it will probably screw up again.

 

[William42]

one last thing: it seems to me like the "i've worked moto for a long time, i wrecked because I didn't bother to check my suspension" have got a lot of people blaming him. That may have been stupid, and the fall may have been rider error, but the suspension should have at least been ballparked prior to leaving the shop, and the der should not have had any problems.

Having worked in a giant dealing shop for 5+ years, and having owned a couple high end full suspension giants (glory, trancex), giant makes great bikes, that were assembled by people who had literally know idea what they were doing, but given the correct torque values and a torque wrench.