Do you have any samples pictures or examples?
Frame design
- Thread starter Ted Wojcik
- Start date
I will be posting pictures as I build the fork, this week.
Not sure if I overlooked it, but I don't recall much discussion of head angle/rake. Seems there was talk of a fox fork, and now it's getting a rigid. Same 44 rake as the fox?
What are your thoughts for balancing both steep ups AND downs? Traditional east-coast specials were pretty steep all around, but rider tastes are trending toward slacker and safer. I'm pretty happy on my 73ha/38 rake bike (24tt/42wlbs) but if it were any rockier here, I'd want that front wheel out in front just a bit for the steep downs.
And I vote for full housing.
I'd like to hear your thoughts and get this thread moving again.
What are your thoughts for balancing both steep ups AND downs? Traditional east-coast specials were pretty steep all around, but rider tastes are trending toward slacker and safer. I'm pretty happy on my 73ha/38 rake bike (24tt/42wlbs) but if it were any rockier here, I'd want that front wheel out in front just a bit for the steep downs.
And I vote for full housing.
I'd like to hear your thoughts and get this thread moving again.
The thread drifted on to the rigid fork issue as there will be a rigid fork to go along with a suspension fork for this particular project.
Ted correct me if I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure Ted is working around a Fox fork up front though.
If you were building the rigid fork to be a complement to a suspension fork would you build it with sag factored in or not?
I have included some photos of the rigid fork parts and assembly process. The rigid fork length will be set considering sag. This is in addition to the Fox fork I intend to use. I'm building this frame for the more experienced rider. I never really embraced the Genesis geometry. Head angle on the drawing will disappear. I like to use a trail number based on a ratio of wheel mass/diameter and fork offset. This will be measured on my jig as I set front center. I will post what the head angle comes out to after I weld the frame. It will be a little more than 72 degrees, but I won't be able to give you an exact number until the frame is laid out in the jig. View attachment 93491
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That fork is gonna look nice methinks.
Here's a crazy idea to throw out there - what about an adjustable head tube to change the head tube angle - sorta like what Commencal and Corsair bikes are doing with some of their models? Is this a conceivable possibility for this "test frame?" For example one setting could provide the rider with a steeper Cross Country-ish head tube angle and the other setting could slacken things out for more of a trail bike feel?
Dumb idea or something work exploring?
Here's a crazy idea to throw out there - what about an adjustable head tube to change the head tube angle - sorta like what Commencal and Corsair bikes are doing with some of their models? Is this a conceivable possibility for this "test frame?" For example one setting could provide the rider with a steeper Cross Country-ish head tube angle and the other setting could slacken things out for more of a trail bike feel?
Dumb idea or something work exploring?
I think it is a great idea. Does anybody have any pictures on how it's done? Also, the cable stops are going to be removable. So when you want it as a single speed, you won't have unused warts on the frame.
Some use 1.5 headtudes with sleeves that are held in place with pinch bolts:
They generally give 2-3 different angle choices. Here's a thread:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-149598.html
They generally give 2-3 different angle choices. Here's a thread:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-149598.html
It looks like Corsair Bikes is also using some type of pinch bolt adjustable head tube on their frames - hard to see from the photos though. But I htought there was mention of it on their site at one time. www.corsairbikes.com
More detail on it right here: http://www.corsairbikes.com/fly.aspx?layout=konig
Visit that link and then hold your mouse over the headtube to read more about how things work.
It looks like they offer 3 degrees of adjustment with their set up.
More detail on it right here: http://www.corsairbikes.com/fly.aspx?layout=konig
Visit that link and then hold your mouse over the headtube to read more about how things work.
It looks like they offer 3 degrees of adjustment with their set up.
Will you be setting the rake of the rigid fork to be 44mm like the Fox or something else? What is the trail figure that you are shooting for?
Do to some time and resource constraints, I'm going to pass on the adjustable head angle on this frame. I'm going to try it on another frame in my line up that I will be talking about later. It is a dual suspension frame that can use 26", 27.5", or 29" wheels and a lot of other adjustments that should allow any user to dial in the geometry to their liking. It is a Freeride/long travel cross country frame that I have been working on for years. I'll unveil it here on Ride Monkey.
The rigid fork is built with taper gauge 1.0mm to .9mm tapered blades. They are 32mm diameter at the top and taper to 22mm at the dropouts.
The rigid fork is built with taper gauge 1.0mm to .9mm tapered blades. They are 32mm diameter at the top and taper to 22mm at the dropouts.
Here are the final dimensions of the Monkey Butt. I will be cutting and welding the frame this week and photos will be posted. Questions and comments welcome.View attachment 93557
The 2.25 inches of bottom bracket drop - what will that equate to approximately when you factor in the Exiwolf tires you used to get to that rear chainstay length etc?
Height at center of BB should be just about 12.29"
Here is the Monkey Butt being cut and in the Jig. I will weld it tomorrow.View attachment 93562
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Very cool! Keep those photos coming. This is fun.
That's a good question.
Oh and can you tell us what tubing you are going with as well. Is it one brand or a mix of different stuff?
No posting tonight. Off to a political rally. Photos and dialog tomorrow.
Any Updates Ted? How's the welding going?
I'm was going to build this with a sample tube set, but I have some issues some of the tube's dimensions (wall thickness at the ends are not as claimed). I won't have replacement tubing until Wednesday. Also, I have decided to make the frame a 17", center to top of seat tube to make it usable for a greater variety of riders. I'll be back Wednesday with some more photos.
MERRY CHRISTMAS.
MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Happy Holidays Ted!!! Thanks for keeping us updated!
I will post some photos over the weekend. Holidays, customer work, and being stranded in Ct. by a broken fuel pump on my van have put the Monkey Butt on the back burner. It will be ready for paint Monday. I'm doing an interesting feature, removable cable stops for the dérailleurs. If you want a single speed, no ugly unused warts. Knees hurt, put your gears back on. I have made the seat tube a bit shorter to accommodate a larger cross section of rider sizes during the test period. Happy New Year.
Will the shorter Seat Tube have any impact on the TT length on that frame? What was the end result on TT length btw?
Ted - didn't realize you were heading back to CT over the holidays. Whenever you head back this way - please do give me a shout, and we could try and meet up for coffee or beers somewhere.
Happy New Year to you.
Mark
Here are some photos before the frame goes for paint. The effective top tube length is 24". The shorter seat tube had no effect on this dimension. We were on a short leash with the trip over the holidays. We will be going back down in a few weeks and I will give you a call.
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Is that an Exi Wolf in there? Is the tire clearance as tight as it looks with the sliders in the middle?
It's really cool for bike geeks like me to watch this take shape.
It's really cool for bike geeks like me to watch this take shape.
lookin good! What paint scheme will the Monkey Butt receive?
Traditional Ted Wojcik signature white and red with a little black?
Traditional Ted Wojcik signature white and red with a little black?
The Monkey Butt is going to be black with a purplish red rear end. Details include removable cable stops for the dérailleurs so if you want to run as a single speed you don't need ugly warts on your bike. Slider dropouts allow chain adjustment for single speeders and chainstay adjustment to be as short as possible for tire clearance and front dérailleur clearance when using gears. There was a question on the board about the tubing, so some talk about the materials. There are a lot of things to influence a builder's tube selection. Strength, weight, ride quality, ease of joining, and cost. Also a builder is influenced by how straight the tubing is and is the i.d. and o.d. concentric? As I started this frame, I was using a sample tube set from a well known supplier and as the build went on, I found serious issues with uniform wall thickness in the butted areas of the tubing. Tubing suppliers are just embracing the special needs of 29er frames. The first thing is the down tube is very long and chainstays need a different shape for adequate tire clearance. Some of the tube vendors need to work on their manufacturing procedures to produce quality tubing in the different configurations required for 29er frames. The tubing I ended up with is supplied by Nova Cycle Supply. The top tube is 1.25" in diameter with a profile of .8X.5X.8 mm and the down tube is 1.5" with a profile of .8X.5X.8 mm The seat tube is 1.125" .8X.
.6X1.2mm with an external butt on the top. Seatstays are 16mm with a .6mm wall. Chainstays are .8 mm wall. If anyone would like to know more about the profiles such as butt length, transition length, or mechanical strength of the tubing, let me know and we can talk about that. It is an Exi Wolf tire. I'll be gathering up components for the build, most are new, but some will be stuff from other demo bikes in the shop. We will see what kind of changes need to be made and I will incorporate them in Monkey Butt frames for order
.6X1.2mm with an external butt on the top. Seatstays are 16mm with a .6mm wall. Chainstays are .8 mm wall. If anyone would like to know more about the profiles such as butt length, transition length, or mechanical strength of the tubing, let me know and we can talk about that. It is an Exi Wolf tire. I'll be gathering up components for the build, most are new, but some will be stuff from other demo bikes in the shop. We will see what kind of changes need to be made and I will incorporate them in Monkey Butt frames for order
what was the decision on bottom bracket? just curious.
i'm pretty much sold on BB30 and SI cranks these days, for any custom frame i might have coming up. while i enjoy my Middleburns, finding a mid-level bb is pretty much impossible now. it's either $30 Shimano or $145 Phil Wood. yes, Phil is nice, but even I have a hard time spending that much.
i'm pretty much sold on BB30 and SI cranks these days, for any custom frame i might have coming up. while i enjoy my Middleburns, finding a mid-level bb is pretty much impossible now. it's either $30 Shimano or $145 Phil Wood. yes, Phil is nice, but even I have a hard time spending that much.
The frame has a 73mm English threaded shell. I will use a 2008 Shimano LX crank because that is what I have.
Is the Tubing Nova brand? If so - what would it equate to in terms of the more known brands like True Temper, Columbus, Reynolds?
I believe Columbus is drawing the 29er tubing for Nova. It has the same mechanicals as Columbus Zona tubing.
Maybe it's the angle, but looks like the tire will contact the seat tube with sliders all the way forward??????
During the initial layout I had a different tire on the wheel. There is plenty of adjustment to allow tire/seat tube/front dérailleur clearance to test the design.
Ted,
Any sense of how short the chainstay would be if the sliders were all the way forward?
Would it actually be shorter than what you've listed previously?