Gaza pull out

Transcend · Aug 17, 2005

Well Israel took the land in 1967 during a war, it wasnt worth it to try and protect it and it REALLY pisses off the neighbors. Friggin' give it back already.

The land holds zero utility besides putting residents on and pissing off the palestinians.

Transcend · Aug 17, 2005

TheMontashu said:
Israel did try and give gaza to egypt after the 6 day war but they did not want it because its simply a **** hole

exactly..so don't try and settle it when it just pisses everyone off.

Changleen · Aug 17, 2005

I watched quite a bit of live feed last night. It was really interesting. I'm not impressed by the 'tards who are spouting **** about god's will, but on the whole it was carried out very professionally and in a civilised way. They shouldn't have been there in the first place though. Actually I think Israel itself is a pretty bad idea. The really fundamentalist Jews don't even believe in Israel as their holy land as they were not lead there by god. :rolleyes:

DirtyDog · Aug 17, 2005

We all learned in High School that pull out doesn't work.

.:Jeenyus:. · Aug 17, 2005

BeerDemon said:
We all learned in High School that pull out doesn't work.

Changleen · Aug 17, 2005

TheMontashu said:
Jews need a home land, jews need a place to go when being opressed it is happend many time and without israel jews will be SOL.

What about New York?

Silver · Aug 17, 2005

Changleen said:
What about New York?

Channeling Jesse Jackson? :angry:

Transcend · Aug 17, 2005

TheMontashu said:
Jews need a home land, jews need a place to go when being opressed it is happend many time and without israel jews will be SOL.

Your home land is where you are from. You don't earn one, deserve one or in any way need one. So i am english, living in quebec. Do i deserve a home land to?

I think i will annex part of hawaii, i hear it's nice this time of year. Stupidest argument yet.

ohio · Aug 17, 2005

Transcend said:
Your home land is where you are from. You don't earn one, deserve one or in any way need one. So i am english, living in quebec. Do i deserve a home land to?

To be fair, when your homeland decides to very efficiently eradicate you, it's probably a good idea to start looking for a new one.

Unfortuately, where else to start looking but in the place your God told you belongs to you? Half of them took that option, the other half came to the US, where they were also pretty unwelcome.

It's great to be so "chosen" that everywhere you go people choose to kill you.

Silver · Aug 18, 2005

We should have turned Arizona into the Jewish state. It's right next to a de facto religious state, and the Israeli army with the bulldozers could solve the problem of Mexicans coming over the border.

Hey, if you could have gone back 50 years ago and explained to all the racists in the US that it was going to be Mexicans or Jews, who do you think they would have picked? Neat thought experiment...

ohio · Aug 18, 2005

TheMontashu said:
Actual originaly israel was not the only option, argentina could have become the jewish state

Yeah, but all the Nazi war-criminals were busy fleeing to Argentina. Given the choice between living next to WASPs, Arabs, and Nazis, I think it makes sense which countries the Jews fled to in which propotrions.

ohio · Aug 18, 2005

TheMontashu said:
I wouldent compare the 2

Huh? Which two?

Silver · Aug 18, 2005

He's still smarter than N8...

valve bouncer · Aug 18, 2005

Silver said:
He's still smarter than N8...

So is my goldfish.

NickZ · Aug 18, 2005

It's common knowledge that they pulled out of Gaza to keep more of the illegal settlements in the West Bank. Quite simply, West Bank and Gaza should be for the Palestinians only. They left crying like they owned the land, instead of accepting they were illegal settlements and their time had come . It is sad, but it's been sad for both sides in all fairness.

enkidu · Aug 18, 2005

NickZ said:
It's common knowledge that they pulled out of Gaza to keep more of the illegal settlements in the West Bank. Quite simply, West Bank and Gaza should be for the Palestinians only. They left crying like they owned the land, instead of accepting they were illegal settlements and their time had come . It is sad, but it's been sad for both sides in all fairness.

When all of the illegal settlements in Gaza and West Bank are returned to the Palestinians, then it is really possible for the Israelis and Palestinians both to thrive in prosperity. Just think of the eager pilgrims flocking to the place from all over the world. I bet the majority of Jewish, Christian and Islamic faithfuls are just hungering for the place to cool down, so that they can visit and pay homage to the holy historical sites.

Andyman_1970 · Aug 18, 2005

Changleen said:
The really fundamentalist Jews don't even believe in Israel as their holy land as they were not lead there by god.

Exqueeze me baking powder.............where did you see that???

Andyman_1970 · Aug 18, 2005

enkidu said:
I bet the majority of Jewish, Christian and Islamic faithfuls are just hungering for the place to cool down, so that they can visit and pay homage to the holy historical sites.

Yeah I would love for that place to chill out so I could go visit...........

kidwoo · Aug 18, 2005

ohio said:
It's great to be so "chosen" that everywhere you go people choose to kill you.

Jealous?

It's so nice to think about all the not killing that would have occured if the "gawd told me so" mentality never existed.

Being an infidel provides a lovely degree of personal freedom. It's nice to know I never have to strap explosives to myself or dress up in a tie and knock on the front doors of suburbanites when I turn 18, or move to a desert cuz that's my homeland.........where people hate me.

Andyman_1970 · Aug 18, 2005

kidwoo said:
.................or dress up in a tie and knock on the front doors of suburbanites when I turn 18,........

I had some Mormon's come by the house a couple of weeks ago. They showed up while I was on a road ride, but my wife (knowing how much I love talking to them) stalled them until I got home.............it was so much fun chatting with those guys................... :cool:

kidwoo · Aug 18, 2005

Andyman_1970 said:
I had some Mormon's come by the house a couple of weeks ago. They showed up while I was on a road ride, but my wife (knowing how much I love talking to them) stalled them until I got home.............it was so much fun chatting with those guys...................

I totally beleive you.

I have a serious problem doing that anymore. I spent my entire youth in parochial schools and I think I reached my fill line years ago.

Andyman_1970 · Aug 18, 2005

kidwoo said:
I have a serious problem doing that anymore. I spent my entire youth in parochial schools and I think I reached my fill line years ago.

I have problems presenting Jesus in a way that one could replace the word "vacuum" with Jesus and the rest of the message would not change, to me that cheapens the Gospel. The Gospel (contrary to what many Christians think, evangelicals that is) it not all about getting into Heaven. Jesus actually speaks every little on the afterlife, when He does mention eternal life, it's the term olam haba, which is a present reality lived in harmony with God, right here right now, not just when one dies and goes to Heaven. The Gospel is however about God restoring His creation to how He orginally intended it to be, right now, not just when all the "good people" get to Heaven.

Anyway.............................

Ciaran · Aug 18, 2005

OK, I don't know much about the situation between the Palestinians and the Israelis so I am going to ask what is probably a stupid question. Please forgive my stupidity but I am just not educated in this arena...

OK... so Judaism is a religion, right? And people of the Jewish faith are Jews. OK, I get that... not, my question is: When did being Jewish go from being a religion to being a race of people? I am a catholic raised christian, but my race is not catholic. How and why are Jews a race of people or a nation of people when Judaism is a religion?

Sorry for the pedestrian question.

Andyman_1970 · Aug 18, 2005

It's kind of a both and.............sort of. You can be Jewish in race and not be an obervant Jew (that is observant to Torah). Now you can be a Gentile and convert to Judaism, where you become a Jew religiously but you are still (by race) a Gentile. One can also be a Jew (by race) and convert to say Christianity, you then become a Christian Jew. The early church was made up of Christian Jews and Christian Gentiles.

It is a bit confusing....................I hope that helped.

Slugman · Aug 18, 2005

Ciaran said:
When did being Jewish go from being a religion to being a race of people? I am a catholic raised christian, but my race is not catholic. How and why are Jews a race of people or a nation of people when Judaism is a religion?

When some smart religous leader realized that by calling jews their own race it would make them feel like they had a bond stronger than one based on a belief...

IMO

Ciaran · Aug 18, 2005

Andyman_1970 said:
It's kind of a both and.............sort of. You can be Jewish in race and not be an obervant Jew (that is observant to Torah). Now you can be a Gentile and convert to Judaism, where you become a Jew religiously but you are still (by race) a Gentile. One can also be a Jew (by race) and convert to say Christianity, you then become a Christian Jew. The early church was made up of Christian Jews and Christian Gentiles.

It is a bit confusing....................I hope that helped.

That's the answer all the jewish people I have asked this question give me.

But the thing I don't understand is at what point did it become a race? Or was it always a race? If the Jews came from the middle east somewhere wouldn't they be middle eastern of some sort? Where did they come from originally? (I should read my Bible more).

I am having trouble wrapping my brain around this one. My apologies for that.

Also, the more I hear about the Palestinians and Israelis the more they sound like a couple of spoiled brats on a playground fighting over who gets to play in the sandbox... and a crappy sandbox at that.

I know there's much more to it, but to my ig'nant, uneducated mind that's what it sounds like.

Changleen · Aug 18, 2005

When you espouse marrying only other Jews and breeding within strict boundries set by your religion, after a few centuries, the Jewish 'race' becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Set yourselves appart from other groups, inbreed for a extended perod of time - viola - a deviation on the tree of humanity. Another branch or 'race' (despite that all humans are 99.9999999% genetically identical :rolleyes:

)

ohio · Aug 18, 2005

Ciaran said:
That's the answer all the jewish people I have asked this question give me.

But the thing I don't understand is at what point did it become a race? Or was it always a race? If the Jews came from the middle east somewhere wouldn't they be middle eastern of some sort? Where did they come from originally? (I should read my Bible more).

I am having trouble wrapping my brain around this one. My apologies for that.

Also, the more I hear about the Palestinians and Israelis the more they sound like a couple of spoiled brats on a playground fighting over who gets to play in the sandbox... and a crappy sandbox at that.

I know there's much more to it, but to my ig'nant, uneducated mind that's what it sounds like.

I don't like the term race. Ethnic group is probably more appropriate. Any group that can trace its lineage back 5000 years, will be somewhat unique and distinct culturally (and arguably physically as well). Hence the term "tribe of Israel." Obviously, over time the group has absorbed cultures and genetics from other groups (and has divided itself a few times... Ashkenazi vs. Sephardic Jews), but not nearly to the extent that Christianity has.

Much of this has to due with the fact that it is not a proseltyzing religion; Jews don't seek to convert and absorb ("save") others, though you certainly can of your own volition.

Transcend · Aug 19, 2005

TheMontashu said:
This was descused at the 1st and 2nd zionist councels the 2nd councel was befor even world war one.

slavery and the holucost

holy crap, you need to learn to spell man. Your posts are painful to read.

Transcend · Aug 19, 2005

Either way they all just need to give each other back what is theirs, and just start reaping the benefits of being one of the ultimate religious tourist destinations on the planet. Hawaii doesn't have anything on these guys.

If only they could act their ages and not their shoe sizes, they would have nothing to complain about. Idiots blowing themselves up on one side, and idiots firing missiles and buldozing houses on the other.

Dear lord, i should run the UN and bring some common sense to the world.

DRB · Aug 19, 2005

Transcend said:
Either way they all just need to give each other back what is theirs, and just start reaping the benefits of being one of the ultimate religious tourist destinations on the planet. Hawaii doesn't have anything on these guys.

If only they could act their ages and not their shoe sizes, they would have nothing to complain about. Idiots blowing themselves up on one side, and idiots firing missiles and buldozing houses on the other.

Dear lord, i should run the UN and bring some common sense to the world.

What's theirs? As defined by who?

You should stick to bitc... I mean fixing NORBA before you take on the UN.

Andyman_1970 · Aug 19, 2005

Ciaran said:
But the thing I don't understand is at what point did it become a race?

With Abraham and his decendants.

Ciaran said:
Or was it always a race?

Yes and no, it started with Abraham who was a Semetic Nomad, but (I'll have to recheck) there were other Semetic peoples at that time.

Ciaran said:
If the Jews came from the middle east somewhere wouldn't they be middle eastern of some sort?

Yes

Ciaran said:
Where did they come from originally? (I should read my Bible more).

A Semetic Nomad named Abraham.

Gaza pull out

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