[amydalayna]

This is just a little vent to the bros with attitude riding out at N* this past Sunday.

A good friend of mine, a really ripping rider, has started taking his 8 year-old son with him out to the star. The kid isn’t setting any speed records, but he can make his way down Livewire, Sinuous, Big Trees… that kind of stuff. This past Sunday at around 4:30 a couple of us were all doing a ride together down Livewire. All was going OK until the brand new, very large, stepup. The little guy couldn’t make it over it and really started to panic at the top. He’s a kid… once it awhile he’s gonna have some issues. And what really freaks him out is when people ride right up on him and he has nowhere to go. Anyways… a couple of bros go hauling into it and then start pulling major attitude. Shouting at him, “This isn’t the place!”
This isn’t the place for what? Having fun? Riding bikes? Sharing your passions with the future generation? What?

I think people need to chill a little bit on the mountain. You are going to get some people who aren’t as fast as you. You don’t need to freak out on every run down the mountain like it is your race run. It’s not.

I think we need to encourage the youngsters to get out there and tear it up instead of shouting out them for being in your way.

End of vent.

 

[sanjuro]

Mr Amy should have had some words in the parking lot with these guys.

 

[J_B]

Sounds like he was at the top?? Maybe that's what they were talking about? I don't know, I wasn't there so I am just going off of what you posted.

Either way, chill homies.

 

[MattP.]

Not being there, it's hard to come to any conclusions.

But you have to look at the other side of the argument. LiveWire is a black diamond run, so you are gonna get riders who are going to ride it and expect that beginners aren't gonna be on the trail, but that's not the case. LiveWire is a trail that you will see every ability of rider on, even though it's a black diamond run, because you can ride LiveWire at any speed, and everything can be rolled. I think that they need to make the qualifier tougher just to keep people in check.

Back to this specific example, he stopped at the top of a step up. If I stop in the middle of LiveWire, anywhere, I can expect people to yell at me, unless I pull all the way off the trail.

Just my thoughts.

 

[chicodude]

Not being there, it's hard to come to any conclusions.

But you have to look at the other side of the argument. LiveWire is a black diamond run, so you are gonna get riders who are going to ride it and expect that beginners aren't gonna be on the trail, but that's not the case. LiveWire is a trail that you will see every ability of rider on, even though it's a black diamond run, because you can ride LiveWire at any speed, and everything can be rolled. I think that they need to make the qualifier tougher just to keep people in check.

Back to this specific example, he stopped at the top of a step up. If I stop in the middle of LiveWire, anywhere, I can expect people to yell at me, unless I pull all the way off the trail.

Just my thoughts.

Well said. Black diamonds are for people who are rippers. Props for the kid but what if someone is bombing down the run and straight blasts the stepup and destroys the kid because they couldn't see him? Seems like a good way to get the kid hurt as well as an unexpecting rider.

 

[Defenestrated]

Despite what everyone has said, wouldn't I be more constructive to be friendly about it and attempt to educate the kid rather than getting all aggro on him?

I dunno, maybe it's just me, I'm a pretty chill guy.

 

[sanjuro]

Lets just say if I was there and someone yelled at an 8 year old, I would be having words in the parking lot.

 

[chicodude]

Lets just say if I was there and someone yelled at an 8 year old, I would be having words in the parking lot.

tough guy. no need to flex your e-nutz here.

 

[MattP.]

Despite what everyone has said, wouldn't I be more constructive to be friendly about it and attempt to educate the kid rather than getting all aggro on him?

I dunno, maybe it's just me, I'm a pretty chill guy.

I totally agree, yelling at a kid, or anyone, is pointless. But we don't the exacts of this specific incident. Was the kid in a position where he could be hurt, or cause others harm? How close were the other riders following him?

Obviously if the kid was off the trail, out of harms way, you would be completely out of line by yelling at him.

On the other hand, if someone (anyone, regardless of age) stops somewhere, on any trail, where he is in harms way, or may cause harm to others, I'm going say something, and most likely, if I riding by, I'm going to yell something.

The way I picture it: Kid is riding a trail over his head, he stops in the middle of a feature, he gets yelled at. Get over it!

 

[sanjuro]

tough guy. no need to flex your e-nutz here.

Then what do you want me to tell you?

Even if the person who yelled at an 8 year old was surfing this thread, I know he wouldn't fess up.

I hate to say this, but the Amys are not confrontational people. I would say something to make sure this kind of behavior is unacceptable.

 

[DUKESofTAH0E]

look at this way yes its a black diamond but if the kid is able to get to there then he's intitled to his shot at the feature. just cuz some ones faster dosnt give them the right to claim the trail as theirs and force slower riders off the trail. lets face it if youre that fast on a bike and get pissed off while riding youre bike over BS like that then you've probly been the slow kid in school slowing everyone else down. so now you know how everyone else feels

 

[amydalayna]

the kid pulled to the side of the stepup when he got shouted out. i understand the frustration of another rider that he has to slow it down a little because he needs to keep an eye out.... but making the kid feel like crap is just poor form.

the experience was a bit eye opening for me because sometimes i'll see a joker out on the trail way over his head and i'll think, 'what is this joker doing?' who am i to judge?
anyone out there on their bikes, having fun has just as much of a right to the mountain as I do.
edit: as long as they are keeping it safe for themselves and those around them.

 

[OGRipper]

I'm inclined to give Amy the benefit of the doubt here and guess that the aggro riders were taking the ride and themselves a bit too seriously. There are some people up there who act like every run is the last, and the world will end if someone messes up their flow. People need to chill, the lifts are running and the next run is about 10 minutes away. It's a sport fueled by adrenalin but still, if you want the trail to yourself, build your own private trail and stay away from Northstar. Don't come to a resort open to all riders and be surprised when there is someone in front of you. And anyway it sounds like the kid was going fine, he just had an issue with a new feature. Hell, I stop and check out new features too sometimes.

Having said that, I agree that the qualifier should be a little tougher and harder to get around. It should also be more clearly posted that if you have a hard time with the qualifier, you should not ride the trail, because lots of people don't seem to get it. Seeing people walk around it all the time makes me cringe at what might happen down the trail.

 

[basixcyclewerx]

Keep your kids off the trails!!!!
I hate being at N star paying 50 bucks to ride,
Then you get to the trail and it is bunched up by GOONS who couldn't read the directions or ignored them and charged a run they have no business on!
Or its closed because some moron wrecked out!


STAY OFF THE TRAILS YOU CANT JUMP OR RIDE!

Live wire is no place for an 8 year old with no skills.

Can you say bad parenting and letting a child get injured do to bad judgment?

How many people get carted out of northstar every year because thy did a double black and wrecked?


Dont yell at the kid??????
Yell at the Kid and his parents for being stupid........


Dont stop on obstacles!!!!
Dont stand on jumps!
Dont go down a trail you can not ride!
Ride within your limits........this is not within the youngsters limits.......



All it takes is a little crash on livewire because the kid wasnt ready and then a lawsuit then no more nstar..........

Keep kids safe by training them on terrain they can handle.
Teach them safe riding by not forcing them into a trail that may hurt them.


With so many good trails I dont see why you have to bring JR down the Dbl Blacks?

 

[amydalayna]

wow.

hold it there spaz. keep your kids off the trails? that's perhaps the silliest thing i've heard.

bad parenting. to me livewire is just a big bmx track with some rocks thrown in. if a kid has been racing bmx for the past 3 years I don't think it's reckless parenting to bring him down that trail.

 

[Total Heckler]

I'm not posting this to pick a fight or anything but I figured I would just comment on it. So please don't take this personally.

Last year I crashed on Livewire and blocked the trail for a few minutes while I caught my breath back and untangled myself from my bike. I slipping a pedal before a lip and launched over the bars.

Every level of rider makes mistakes. Thats pretty much like saying I (an expert level rider) should not ride the trail because I was one of the 'morons' who crashed and blocked the trail. It isn't always people who don't belong there. Everyone pays the $50 to ride the mountain, it seems kind of silly to blame all of your frustrations on young, inexperienced, or any riders that may be in your way.

You don't always get the dream run you want on a public mountain regardless of how frustrating or annoying it might be to you. It just comes with the territory and everyone should know and understand that.

 

[OGRipper]

stuff

I am not a parent (and from the sound of your post, I am guessing that you are not either), but to me, this sounds like GREAT parenting. They could make the kid stay home and not let him do anything dangerous, but instead they take him out to a resort and encourage him to progress at something he seems to really like doing, even though it has more risk. I wish my parents were more like that, and I hope that if someday I do become a parent, I will be able to stifle my own protective instincts and let my kids push themselves.

You are right that people should not intentionally stop in the middle of the trail, and that people should ride within their abilities. But here's a news flash: Livewire is not a very advanced trail, regardless of whether they call it double black. An 8 year old with good skills should be welcome to hit it if they want and their parents are there for support and to help with any trouble. And as I and others have said, if you ride at a resort you are going to have to deal with other people on the trail. That includes slowing down or stopping for slower people, and getting out of the way when someone wants to pass.

I am more worried about Northstar closing because of assholes with bad attitudes than because of a youngster getting hurt.

.

 

[basixcyclewerx]

A good parent would teach the kid limits. Being safe and not going over your capabilities.
Not let them loose on a big hit fast flowing trail.



I pay good money to pin it down that mountain.
Get your kids out of the way.
I have the right to go as fast as I want on that Mtn.
I have plenty of rangers telling me to slow down here.
I dont need to go pay to be told hey slow down......

If you crash thats one thing. But if you crash because the trail is way over your head or you are stopped because of lack of skill for that trail then you are in the wrong.

I am pretty sure the patrol is tired of saving morons who don't read the signs before entering the trail.


No I dont have kids.
Kids suck. Parents are even worse......"BREEDERS"


Broken necks close resorts.
Being an "asshole" and telling kids to stay off trails they dont belong on doesn't.


It goes both ways.......

If your kid wants to roll it fine roll it...... but dont be mad when a rider riding the course gets mad because you ruined the run.


I want the kid to succeed but there is other ways he can improve besides crashing his way down a trail and risking other riders safety.


Josh expert riders dont crash on livewire......... <------ this is a joke....... live a little...

 

[amydalayna]

Josh expert riders dont crash on livewire.........

You're a dumb dumb.

My worst crash has been on the road. and it was my fault. Not because it was out of my skill level, but because every rider makes mistakes. Some of the best riders have had horrific crashes just cranking down a fire road.

and you are not entitled to ride in any manner that you want because you paid $39 for a lift pass. Ever ski? You pay a lot more and there are more jokers on the same expert level runs as you. Those who don't want to deal w/ the jokers take it to the backcountry.

 

[basixcyclewerx]

I know everyone crashes..... I blew my knee out doing a dork wheelie.....
I was poking fun at Josh.... I didn't know you were his mom.

Just so people know....
On an early trip to Northstar this year.
In one day I got 4 runs in.

That was because in that day I came up on 3 people crashed out.
3 times I had to get the phone out and call patrol for them.

I wasted my day and time which I dont have a lot of, saving people on trails.......

This is where my frustration comes from.

Watching people "walk" over the entry jump on that trail infuriates me.
I can not believe the park allows it......The rating system is there for safety.

 

[basixcyclewerx]

On another note.

PLEASE RIDE WITH A BUDDY.
CARRY A PHONE, CARRY AN ID.
WRITE ANY MEDICAL CONDITIONS ON YOUR ID.
BE SAFE OUT THERE.

 

[OGRipper]

more stuff

I was about to make a bunch of thoughtful arguments contrary to what you are saying, but then I read your comment about how expert riders don't crash on livewire and I realized that you are not rational or able to engage in an intelligent debate.

Everybody crashes, and it often happens where you'd least expect it. (Don't take my word, ask Sam Hill!!!) Chances are good you will learn that lesson someday. I hope that it's not too painful for you, and that the people coming up behind your carcass are decent enough that they don't bitch about you "ruining their run."

 

[basixcyclewerx]

I dont mind people crashing.... I crash a **** load.
But I know my riding limits. When I crash and need a minute I get off trail/course.

That is the point.
Most people I come on at N star that crash out. Dont belong on that trail......
80% of them I would say is a newbie on a DBL BLACK.





Anyone from Patrol care to comment in this thread????

 

[Total Heckler]

Josh expert riders dont crash on livewire.........

Haha I will keep that in mind and let others know haha

I will also contact UCI and let them know world cup racers aren't allowed to crash either. Looks like Sam Hill and Gee Atherton are in trouble!

lol

When are we riding again?

 

[amydalayna]

just a note: the kid never crashed. he clears the little qualifier. he's just not that speedy. and when he rides, his dad stays behind him to create a buffer and let him know when he should pull over.
he just had an issue on the one step up. and right at the top he pulled over, but since he's small his dad just wanted the riders behind him to slow it down for a second so he could get his kid off the feature and out of the way.

that is when the dudes took it upon themselves to yell at a kid. that is what makes no sense to me. when i see a kid making it down some techie stuff it really pumps me up. it gives me hope that being a parent isn't going to be totally lame. but i guess from some of the comments, that not everyone feels that way.

 

[basixcyclewerx]

I may be meeting Todd Tonight in SC to ride Watertower............
I love this trail!

 

[Total Heckler]

just a note: the kid never crashed. he clears the little qualifier. he's just not that speedy. and when he rides, his dad stays behind him to create a buffer and let him know when he should pull over.
he just had an issue on the one step up. and right at the top he pulled over, but since he's small his dad just wanted the riders behind him to slow it down for a second so he could get his kid off the feature and out of the way.

that is when the dudes took it upon themselves to yell at a kid. that is what makes no sense to me. when i see a kid making it down some techie stuff it really pumps me up. it gives me hope that being a parent isn't going to be totally lame. but i guess from some of the comments, that not everyone feels that way.

I think you rock as a parent. Hopefully I can have a kid of my own to be proud of someday. =] For now, I will just work on my nephew. haha

Derek, damn. Tonight I think I am setting up my new tv. mmmm 47 inch 1080p HDTV goodness...

 

[basixcyclewerx]

If homey clears the first jump.
He is down for the trail then.
But let him know this is a fast trail and people do take every run seriously.



If he is gonna ride the big boy stuff, he will get treated like a "big boy". Not being right by any means.
This is the way it goes in the hierarchy of the sport. I went through it hard when I was young. But I am lucky I had people to also help me and keep me going instead of getting discouraged.

 

[amydalayna]

I think you rock as a parent. Hopefully I can have a kid of my own to be proud of someday. =] For now, I will just work on my nephew. haha

he's not my kid. just a friends.
but i love riding bikes with him. he makes me feel like being a kid again.
and if the kid ends up as good as he is on skis then in no time he'll be the one on the trail telling people to get out of his way....

 

[basixcyclewerx]

Amy on another note.
I do not like kids.
Some people just don't like kids don't want kids etc.
These guys may be in that group with me.

Hard to find a girl when you hate kids trust me hahahahaha
But my wife hates kids to. Some people are wired that way.

We always joke when we are old we are gonna be the "crazy old people" the kids hate in the neighborhood.


But for the record I dont yell at kids that ride. I actually help a couple local kids around here.

I yell at kids for not wearing pads and helmets on ocassion. Littering is also a no no with me.

 

[amydalayna]

I do not like kids.

that does explain a bit of your comments.

but in general i think people at the * just need to chill out. saturday before race days are the worst. people freaking out on their practice runs. it's ridiculous.

 

[OGRipper]

But let him know this is a fast trail and people do take every run seriously.

I think the whole point here is that you should NOT take every run so seriously that you end up yelling at a kickass little kid instead of encouraging him. But we're beating a dead horse here...

 

[basixcyclewerx]

Racing is very serious to some people amy.
But yes yelling at kids will get our sport no where.
Education and training make it grow.
I was just trying to point out not everyone is out there to lolly gag around and stand on jumps.


Whos right is it to say how someone should take their run?
I am in my right to throw down a race quality/speed run as much as he is to stop and star gaze.

 

[amydalayna]

I think the whole point here is that you should NOT take every run so seriously that you end up yelling at a kickass little kid instead of encouraging him. But we're beating a dead horse here...

see, but you and i are on the same page. we go out and ride bikes to have fun. it's what i like about biking. hanging out w/ my friends and encouraging each other to do cool things.

jimw said this once when we were riding together and i loved it

today we might not be setting any speed records, but maybe we can set some fun records

cheers to having fun on bikes.

 

[jimw]

Did I say that? Damn, that was profound!

A few comments:

On race days, sure, go out and be as serious as you want. Even then you may not have a clear run. Other than race days though, I agree, some people at N* need to chill out. The "bros" with the "gettin' Gnar at the Star (tm)" attitude make it un-fun for a lot of people, and I would dare say unsafe in some cases, because they are constantly riding at the edge of their limit. Save it for the race run. On the other hand, I get quite a bit of satisfaction by surprising these guys and passing them.

You paid for access to the lifts, and to be able to ride professionally maintained trails. That doesn't give you the "right" to ride as fast as you want. I see plenty of expert riders crash on Livewire, and every other trail for that matter. I like to pin it and hit all the jumps just as much as anyone. But if I have to stop for someone else who is slower, or for an accident, so what? I'll get plenty more chances. I figure karma goes/comes around too. I do understand that in the case mentioned, you didn't get your money's worth due to downtime. That sucks, but sometimes that happens. It is the exception though. Kudos to you for helping out with the accidents - karma will pay you back.

BTW, I rode with this kid and his dad part of the way down Livewire (after the incident), and I don't believe this was the unsafe situation it is being made out to be by some. Also, I believe the incident in question happened on the *new* step-up, which was only built last week.

 

[sanjuro]

It doesn't matter what the situation is:

don't yell at a kid.

i run into a lot of families on trails in the bay area, where they have the right to walk wherever.

if they are lacking comment sense or decide i'm a good listener for complaints, i still never yell at kids. i will gladly argue with their parents though.

 

[J_B]

It doesn't matter what the situation is:

don't yell at a kid.

i run into a lot of families on trails in the bay area, where they have the right to walk wherever.

if they are lacking comment sense or decide i'm a good listener for complaints, i never yell at kids. i will gladly argue with their parents though.

Agreed. Do not disrespect kids. No cussing or yelling at them. If you want to charge every run likes it's your race run then have at it Sam Hill fan boys. I race as well and charge the runs but if coming up on riders taking their time and enjoying it, I slow down. It makes no sense in acting like an a-hole when you are supposed to be representing this sport or your sponsors.

 

[kidwoo]

Whos right is it to say how someone should take their run?
I am in my right to throw down a race quality/speed run as much as he is to stop and star gaze.

Yeah you're a real fukkin ripper.

"I'm going to 'jump to expert'"

http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2955196&postcount=17


You goofy little hacks that over run a mediocre trail of connected speed bumps are a joke. It's cute that you feel like a good bike rider just because you can ride down what's essentially a bike path with a few lumps. It's absolutely pathetic that you think this somehow entitles you to treat other people on the mountain in the way you've exhibited here. It doesn't pal. Everyone on that hill has as much right to be there as you.


I look forward to figuring out who you are so that I can show you the proper manners on how to get around slower riders without being a jackass............you little expert you.

It's really not that hard. And you will get another run you tweeker.

 

[basixcyclewerx]

Sweet a free clinic!!!!
Look forward to it buddy!


Kidwoo stfu. Read the thread moron.... where did it say I am the guy yelling at kids?
I merely defended the person that yelled. But if you want some jump in....



If anyone has a problem with me come see me.
I ride a black giant, i wear black gear, i rock a big black helmet......

Im not scared of anyone "talking to me" or "showing me whats up".
I have been a pro BMX racer for over 6 years I can handle my own. Been in plenty of "rider meetings"
Come get a taste

 

[basixcyclewerx]

Since I am now getting threats through email.......


I am not the guy who did the yelling!
I am not a friend of the yellers.
I do not back yelling at kids.

My point was really to many people go down trails at N star that they shouldnt be on.
This kids sounded like a classic case to me.

Read the whole thread morons......

The original post stated he was on the jump standing when riders came through at a high rate of speed. This is classic dangerous beginner stuff that shouldn't happen on that trail. The kid got yelled at just like I would get yelled at for standing on the jump.
I learned at a very young age you do not stop on course you move to the side.

Thats it.

If anyone wants a piece of me come see me.
Flexing over email is so weak..........