[jwick]

Pulled from the Transition website today....


REAR TRAVEL: 130mm (5") / 150mm (6") Adjustable Rear Wheel Travel
REAR SHOCK: 7.875" x 2.25" (Forward Pin 22.2mm x 8mm, Rear Pin 22.2mm x 8mm)
FRAME MATERIAL: 6061 Heat Treated Aluminum
SIZES: Small, Medium, Large
COLORS: Black, Red
FRAME WEIGHT: 7.4 (without rear shock)
COMPLETE WEIGHT: 30-40 lbs (Depends on Build)
WARRANTY: 1 year defect warranty, lifetime crash replacement.
SEATPOST/CLAMP: 31.6mm Seatpost/34.9mm Clamp
HEADTUBE: Tapered 1.5" / 1-1/8" (1.5" Lower Cup 49.6mm ID / 1-1/8" Flush Top Cup 44mm ID)
BOTTOM BRACKET: 73mm shell x 51mm chainline
REAR DROPOUT: 135mm x 10mm
FRONT DERAILLEUR: High Direct Mount (HDM) Top Pull (SRAM)
CHAINGUIDE: ISCG 05

Looks like the BR's getting an update based on the new travel/headtube/iscg specs!

Anyone else have any fresh info?

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

That headtube sucks.

Edit: looks like they moved away from the IS upper on the headtube. That's better, but I'm still a fan of full 1.5.

 

[Sandwich]

yeah, what's the advantage to the tapered steerer? Why not a full 1.5, especially with the adjustability you gain? genuinely curious...

 

[Adamski]

yeah, what's the advantage to the tapered steerer? Why not a full 1.5, especially with the adjustability you gain? genuinely curious...

You can whack an Angleset into a tapered steerer tube, which leaves you with a bunch of options. Yes you could do that with a 1.5 but seem Transition wants all their bikes tapered.

 

[William42]

Anglesets work with e2 style taper. so 1.5 lower, 44mm upper. There are also regular style tapers that aren't set up for flush top cups, which are like 40mm or something. You have all the same "adjustability" of an angleset with the correctly tapered headtubes. You're not losing any adjustability here (or much, really). The only place you lose out is the ability to run a tapered steertube fork with an angleset, since as far as I know, you need full 1.5 for that.

 

[in the trees]

And is the top cup integrated like other TR. frames? If that is the case, the Angleset will not work.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

And is the top cup integrated like other TR. frames? If that is the case, the Angleset will not work.

It appears newer frames are moving away from the IS design.

 

[HAB]

It appears newer frames are moving away from the IS design.

Yeah, I've confirmed with Transition that they're moving to a ZS top cup, starting with the TR250, and the next production run of the TR450, which should drop in January.

 

[thad]

I don't think those will be coming in until summer.

 

[dropmachine]

yeah, what's the advantage to the tapered steerer? Why not a full 1.5, especially with the adjustability you gain? genuinely curious...

The advantages are slight weight savings. Thats it. See, the problem is that bike consumers are inherently idiots, and fall for whatever marketing horse**** is the flavour of the week. While a full 1.5 steerer comes with a slew of advantages, it does come with a slight weight penalty, up to 1/2 lb I think. (thats off by memory, but please forum nerds, correct at your leisure.)

See, it seems that media (not me, its not my fault) have convinced riders that even a slight weight gain is as bad as using almost dead babies as shinguards, and that any slight weight gain, no matter how advantageous it is in REAL ****ING LIFE, will cause you to fail on every climb, slide out in every corner, and give you super herpes. Its a fact.

I love Transition, I really do. They are a ****ing STELLAR company. But putting a tapered headtube on a Bottlerocket is like tying a helium balloon to Kirstie Alleys ass (with the idea that Kirstie Alley would in fact be hot, fun to ride, and would actually be able to jump.)

Let the bike be what the bike is meant to be.


EDIT: This late night gibberish rant is about tapered HEADTUBES, not steertubes. And yes, the Kirstie Alley thing sucked.

 

[ROTFLMAO]

The advantages are slight weight savings. Thats it. See, the problem is that bike consumers are inherently idiots, and fall for whatever marketing horse**** is the flavour of the week. While a full 1.5 steerer comes with a slew of advantages, it does come with a slight weight penalty, up to 1/2 lb I think. (thats off by memory, but please forum nerds, correct at your leisure.)

See, it seems that media (not me, its not my fault) have convinced riders that even a slight weight gain is as bad as using almost dead babies as shinguards, and that any slight weight gain, no matter how advantageous it is in REAL ****ING LIFE, will cause you to fail on every climb, slide out in every corner, and give you super herpes. Its a fact.

I love Transition, I really do. They are a ****ing STELLAR company. But putting a tapered steertube on a Bottlerocket is like tying a helium balloon to Kirstie Alleys ass (with the idea that Kirstie Alley would in fact be hot, fun to ride, and would actually be able to jump.)

Let the bike be what the bike is meant to be.

HALLELUJAH! Could not have said it better myself.

 

[freeridefool]

I love Transition, I really do. They are a ****ing STELLAR company. But putting a tapered steertube on a Bottlerocket is like tying a helium balloon to Kirstie Alleys ass (with the idea that Kirstie Alley would in fact be hot, fun to ride, and would actually be able to jump.)

Let the bike be what the bike is meant to be.

I agree with everything you said in the post... But the Kirstie Alley analogy was terrible.

 

[thad]

The new ZS tapered HT can take an angleset. 1.5" steerers are going away. Tapered steerers has the strength of 1.5 at the crown where it counts, and is lighter fork, as well as using lighter stem and upper cup. It can do 1 1/8" flush lower, raised lower, or angleset, so you have all the flexibility of a 1.5 HT. The tapered headtube matches up better to fatter dt and thinner tt for better welding area. Plus, it looks sexy. So I'm not sure what's not to like, unless you have a 1.5" fork you are attached to.

 

[4130biker]

I see no drawback to the trend. If you can run an angleset, who cares? Plus, the 1-1/8 stems are so much more common (and look better than 1.5 IMHO)

 

[4130biker]

the reason I came here is because I want to see that new BR!

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

The new ZS tapered HT can take an angleset. 1.5" steerers are going away. Tapered steerers has the strength of 1.5 at the crown where it counts, and is lighter fork, as well as using lighter stem and upper cup. It can do 1 1/8" flush lower, raised lower, or angleset, so you have all the flexibility of a 1.5 HT. The tapered headtube matches up better to fatter dt and thinner tt for better welding area. Plus, it looks sexy. So I'm not sure what's not to like, unless you have a 1.5" fork you are attached to.

I see no drawback to the trend. If you can run an angleset, who cares? Plus, the 1-1/8 stems are so much more common (and look better than 1.5 IMHO)

Without seeing the tapered models, they're sure to have more stack height on the upper cup to facilitate the increased angle adjust. If you're running a larger frame with a triple clamp, it's possible to run out of space unless the headtube's really short.

But I'm speculating... We'll see when they're available. I'm of the opinion that 1.5 is ideal and besides aesthetics, is the best option.

 

[sethimus]

Without seeing the tapered models, they're sure to have more stack height on the upper cup to facilitate the increased angle adjust. If you're running a larger frame with a triple clamp, it's possible to run out of space unless the headtube's really short.

But I'm speculating... We'll see when they're available. I'm of the opinion that 1.5 is ideal and besides aesthetics, is the best option.

who runs a br with a triple clamp fork?

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

who runs a br with a triple clamp fork?

I thought we were talking about headtoobz...

 

[syadasti]

I see no drawback to the trend. If you can run an angleset, who cares? Plus, the 1-1/8 stems are so much more common (and look better than 1.5 IMHO)

People are having a fit but the strength gain from going from taper to 1.5 is only 5%. This isn't a huge loss but the weight, stem selection gains from tapered are actually significant. Boohoo, you can't pose with a full 1.5 setup as if 99.997% of riders would even notice or need that 5%

 

[quickneonrt]

I personally think a full 1.5 looks better then the cone head tapered headtube. On the flip side how many people actually run a 1.5 fork and stem? I also think it is funny everyone being up in arms at the idea they may not be able to run an angleset, um what did we do till this year??? When will people stop playing into the media hype.....you need this or you need that!!! Didn't need one on my 07 SXT and don't need one on my 09 Reign X. No one needed one on the BR before so why get your panties in a bunch now? The BR is not a DH race machine.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

I personally think a full 1.5 looks better then the cone head tapered headtube. On the flip side how many people actually run a 1.5 fork and stem? I also think it is funny everyone being up in arms at the idea they may not be able to run an angleset, um what did we do till this year??? When will people stop playing into the media hype.....you need this or you need that!!! Didn't need one on my 07 SXT and don't need one on my 09 Reign X. No one needed one on the BR before so why get your panties in a bunch now? The BR is not a DH race machine.

I couldnt agree more...the HT angle is dialed on the BR...I had one of the first off the line back in 05' ish and absolutely loved that bike. Only sold it to get a blindside, and now a TR250. I ride a covert for AM and the new design is very refined and the taper makes sense due to the numbers...I think we will see 1.5" slowly go away, it's innovation.

With the expansion of the transition line people shouldnt need to be adjusting head angles, they have a bike for any niche you can think of...

 

[William42]

I couldn't really care one way or another, since I tend to buy bikes with the geo that I want in the first place, rather then buying a frame that isn't really dialed, and I understand that some people do a lot of traveling and ride a pretty wide array of trails and want the angle adjustability, but wtf is with this OMFG IT MUST HAVE ANGLEADJUSTZ ABILITYYYY!!!

I'd say most of the bikes on the market that I can think of have pretty fuggin dialed geo. No real need for angle adjust on most, and I'm pretty sure people have been doing a good job winning without adjusting their HA every second - and I'm pretty sure I've been doing a good job having fun with my bike that doesn't have an angleset. Why is an angleset suddenly THE most crucial and important element of a new bike? Its a great bike if it can take one, its a terrible bike if it can't? And the consensus over whether or not this is a good bike is that its aight, but the fact that it can only take an angleset 90% of the time, and not a full 100% means it will probably suck?

The internet is a pretty tough place for bikes.

 

[Sandwich]

I don't think it's so much angleset this, angleset that, so much as why the hell wouldn't they go full 1.5, which is arguably stronger, though slightly heavier, and gives you the full option of running any damned thing you want (1.5" steerer, tapered steerer, 1.125 steerer, slacker cups, etc)? It's a bit like the 2010 glory business...people could easily quitchebitchen if they had a 1.5" HT to work with. I still think the 1.5" steerer is dumb, but I love that some frames have the big headtube for it. That way you can adjust the geo without messing up angles.

Think about it this way...things change, why not build in as much redundancy as possible? My Sunday's geo was pretty dialed in 2006...but now people are going more and more slack....I'd like to give it a shot, since I'm rebuilding my frame, and see if I'm more comfortable on it. Thanks to the CC anglesled, I can do that...if I go 63.5, and it's too slack, I can change it. In the future, we may see fat steerers again...or really short ones...or something else entirely...but it doesn't make sense to me to limit technology to carry on in your own tracks, unless you're apple and idiots will follow you no matter what you crap out. Plus, you can fix a bad frame, like the Sette vexx (66* HA) and give it semi-competitive geometry...

Anyways...I know the BR isn't necessarily a race bike or even a DH bike, but I just feel like added adjustability is rarely a bad thing.

 

[dropmachine]

There is no reason to not have a full 1.5 headtube OTHER than catering to the zombie idiot masses that swear they can feel the weight difference. Its marketing, end of story.

Now, in regards to the CC Angleset...

Its ridiculous that anyone would argue against that thing. If you think the ability to adjust your head angle is superfluous and over rated, why do you have adjusters on your shock? Why do you have adjustable compression and rebound on your fork? To TUNE it. This is no different.

As well, saying that you "trust the manufacturer" or "I just buy bikes with geo that I like" is ridiculous. If the geo was so rotten that the bike needed massive changes, I could see your point. But thats not the case. The Angleset will simply let you tune the bike a little more towards what you want. I am a perfect candidate for the angleset. I love slack head angles, and while I can find them on DH bikes, I can't find them on trail bikes. A Blur LT with an Angleset fixes that, without any penalty whatsoever. Its a genius solution.

 

[William42]

added adjustability isn't a bad thing. Ever mountain bike I've ever owned has been either full 1.5 or e2 tapered (which will take an angleset). 1.5 steers wont work with angleset at all, so 1.5 steers are F'd in the A and going away anyway. I'm sure it will still be a good bicycle. When you turn the cranks it will go forward, it'll be well built and be backed by good service, and the suspension will move up and down.

edit: you folks are missing the point. Adjustability isn't really a bad thing, but at the same time, its not really that big of a deal either. It shouldn't make or break a bike. It could still be a great bike if it had a 1.125, its not the end of the world, and further, you will still be able to use an angle adjust that you so desperately think every bike MUST BE ABLE TO USE.

 

[Sandwich]

edit: you folks are missing the point. Adjustability isn't really a bad thing, but at the same time, its not really that big of a deal either. It shouldn't make or break a bike.

No, it's not that big of a deal, but why a manufacturer would choose tapered over straight is a bit perplexing when it's designed from the ground up. The bike will rip, no doubt, but if I were designing new bikes, I'd want to take advantage of all proven current technology, to allow the bike to have a long and healthy run. It's a bit like designing a bike around a specific shock that, when it becomes obsolete, puts the bike into dinosaur land...a bit like foes or the earliest Sundays...

just my opinion though...and again, this isn't necessarily directed at the BR, just a question.

 

[dropmachine]

1.5 steers wont work with angleset at all, so 1.5 steers are F'd in the A and going away anyway.

Clearly its time we pioneer the 2" headtube.

 

[captainspauldin]

So 7.4lbs w/o shock, what does the old BR come in? Does this mean it can be built to a all-mountain bike weight? (yeah i know, go from HA nerdfest right to weight)

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

OMFG IT MUST HAVE ANGLEADJUSTZ ABILITYYYY!!!

ok dude this made me laugh pretty hard

I agree, the industry has really matured and is giving many of us the numbers we want

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

No, it's not that big of a deal, but why a manufacturer would choose tapered over straight is a bit perplexing when it's designed from the ground up. The bike will rip, no doubt, but if I were designing new bikes, I'd want to take advantage of all proven current technology, to allow the bike to have a long and healthy run. It's a bit like designing a bike around a specific shock that, when it becomes obsolete, puts the bike into dinosaur land...a bit like foes or the earliest Sundays...

just my opinion though...and again, this isn't necessarily directed at the BR, just a question.

almost every bike in transitions line runs the same head tube so it makes absolute sense from a tooling perspective...if there was a bike they would be looking for angle nerd adjustments it wouldnt be a slope bike, it would be the TR450 dont you think?

the BR (IMO) is not aimed at this kind of crowd chopping numbers...it's aimed at a dude that wants to go out and nail jumps and parks that actually rides.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

There is no reason to not have a full 1.5 headtube OTHER than catering to the zombie idiot masses that swear they can feel the weight difference. Its marketing, end of story.

Of course nobody can feel the weight (even though RM thinks so), but at the end of the day the taper system is a smarter system...What are the advantages of a 1.5 over a taper OTHER than the HT adjustability...?

The taper has all the advantages of 1.5 with less weight and more stem choices...seems like a no brainer to me.

Again most ppl buying a bottlerocket don't care about .05 degrees of HT adjustment...

 

[Sandwich]

almost every bike in transitions line runs the same head tube so it makes absolute sense from a tooling perspective...if there was a bike they would be looking for angle nerd adjustments it wouldnt be a slope bike, it would be the TR450 dont you think?

ahh, there it is. Using one head tube across the line makes perfect sense.

 

[Dogboy]

ahh, there it is. Using one head tube across the line makes perfect sense.

Except...this is the only frame in their line-up using the 44/49 configuration. That said. It's nice to see them going to that setup because it seems like the best choice for tapered IMHO.

 

[dropmachine]

Of course nobody can feel the weight (even though RM thinks so), but at the end of the day the taper system is a smarter system...What are the advantages of a 1.5 over a taper OTHER than the HT adjustability...?

The taper has all the advantages of 1.5 with less weight and more stem choices...seems like a no brainer to me.

Again most ppl buying a bottlerocket don't care about .05 degrees of HT adjustment...

Read what I wrote, then comment.

Originally Posted by dropmachine.com
There is no reason to not have a full 1.5 headtube.

I didn't say anything about steerers. If you wanna run a tapered steerer, then bombs away. Just make the headtubes full 1.5, and give customers the choice.

 

[quickneonrt]

ahh, there it is. Using one head tube across the line makes perfect sense.

Well a same ht across the board does make sense but what about the TR250 and TR450? Don't they have 1.5 ht? So why not on the new BR?

 

[quickneonrt]

Read what I wrote, then comment.

Originally Posted by dropmachine.com
There is no reason to not have a full 1.5 headtube.

I didn't say anything about steerers. If you wanna run a tapered steerer, then bombs away. Just make the headtubes full 1.5, and give customers the choice.

Agreed

 

[Dogboy]

Well a same ht across the board does make sense but what about the TR250 and TR450? Don't they have 1.5 ht? So why not on the new BR?

The current Bottlerocket is the only bike in their line with a 1.5 headtube.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

ahh, there it is. Using one head tube across the line makes perfect sense.

explain to me why you wouldn't want to? If a system was accepted that embraced the best parts of all designs thus far?

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

not going to turn this into a ht debate...i think this will be generally appreciated...makes sense.

 

[P.T.W]

Why are so many people saying you lose the ability to use a angleset on tapered headtubes? If you look on CaneCreeks website http://canecreek.com/AngleSet
You will see that there are two models of angleset for tapered headtubes that retain the full range of adjustability, the only differance is that its the bottom cup where the adjustment happens.