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intense 951 shock problem

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by AzN_devil, Nov 29, 2009.

  1. AzN_devil

    AzN_devil Monkey

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    should i use tune b or tune c?
    i just went for a ride today with a tune b shock and the rear bottomed out quite a few times..i tried faster rebound but didnt really help much

    im 165 lb with gear with a 500lb spring on a rockshox vivid 5.1 tune b shock

    also....how can i make my bike less twitchy as the rear rebounds from absorbing rocks and roots? its pretty noticeable especially when going down reptitive bumps (eg staircases made out of dirt and wood)

    im using a 09 boxxer race with the push valve kit

    thx
     
    #1 -   Nov 29, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009

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  2. eater

    eater Monkey

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    get a elka shock, problem solved and works better with vpp than a fox.
     
  3. AzN_devil

    AzN_devil Monkey

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    sorry forgot to mention i am using a rs vivid 5.1 shock at the moment...
    cant exactly afford a new shock atm ...planning for a trip to whistler next year
     
  4. Salami

    Salami Turbo Monkey

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    So what? He is not on a Fox.
     
  5. freshwire

    freshwire Monkey

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    How much sag are you running? Is it set properly? You can increase the preload on the coil to make it stiffer...I use a Vivid with a 450 on my Sunday and I'm 185+ in gear...and I never bottom that thing out...you could have a problem with that shock?

    To make the bike less twitchy, slow down the rebound...big time...I'm running my rebound slower than ever and it really helps with everything...IMHO...even pops off of lips better...

    That's a 9" travel bike, right? They take more dialing in...I rode a 650 on my V10 and still bottomed out sometimes...
     
  6. P.T.W

    P.T.W Monkey

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    Yeah go plonk down some major coin on a new shock rather than twiddle some (compression?)dials for free:think: or possibly a new(stiffer) spring
     
  7. Kntr

    Kntr Turbo Monkey

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    Id say something is wrong with the shock. I run a 400 on my 951 with a Roco and Im 185ish.
     
  8. Eastern States Cup

    Eastern States Cup Turbo Monkey

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    toss the vivid
     
  9. vince2667

    vince2667 Chimp

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    I hope this helps, it sounds like the sag is not set correctly. I'm 165# + gear and I run a 400# spring. I had the the rear spring too soft and bottomed out also and had little rear breaking. Check the rear sag. You are looking for 30%-35% of your shock stroke and take that # and subtract it from the eye to eye measurement. 30% of 3" is 1" Eye to eye is 9.5" so you are looking for 8.5" eye to eye in full sag "standing on pedals in attack position" w/gear.

    More rebound dampening may help the rear end also. I have the dropouts set @ G3.
     
    #9 -   Nov 29, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  10. AzN_devil

    AzN_devil Monkey

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    thx..i tried slowing down the rebound already but the bike is still twitchy AND the shock bottomed out even more...

    im currently at 28-32% sag...dropouts are at the slackest setting

    the intense 951 is at 8.5" travel and using a i2i 9.5 inch shock
     
  11. ekripper

    ekripper Chimp

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    Go to the 8" setting and give it a try. It seems to ramp up a bit more in the 8" setting and not wallow around in the mid stroke as bad. At least give it a try and see. Something about that 8.5" setting is just funky. Almost feels like the rate falls at the end. For me the bike just felt much better when I made this change. I'm 170 with a 400# spring and not bottoming at all...using an RC4 by the way.
     
  12. DirtyMike

    DirtyMike Turbo Fluffer

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    Try backing off the rebound just a touch........ if you have too much rebound dampening, your wheel is loading up while going through the rough, basically its not returning fully fir the next hit.

    Stop playing with the rebound for bottomout.... you need to play with the compression for bottom out.

    And I agree with others, double check your spring rate before going too much further. Doesnt sound like its the shock, but more so the settings.
     
  13. dagmz6s

    dagmz6s Monkey

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    I would switch to the 8" setting like others have said. if things dont work with that spring rate at the 8" setting I would think you have a bad shock. everything I have read over on MTBR about spring rates on the 951 have a 500lb spring being more than enough for your weight.
     
  14. Kntr

    Kntr Turbo Monkey

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    Yes, switch to the 8" setting. The 8.5" setting is wack.
     
  15. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    What? How would turning down the rebound help?

    Where/when does it bottom? Does it bottom off of slow-shaft-velocity stuff (jumps and drops) or high velocity (hitting a rock at high speed, little or no jump involved). If it's low-velocity, increase low-speed compression. If it's high-velocity, increase high-speed compression.
     
  16. AzN_devil

    AzN_devil Monkey

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    which hole gives the 8" setting?
    is this documented somewhere?
    all i know is...i have two holes for the shock to go into and three holes for the dropout to go into...

    thx
     
  17. AzN_devil

    AzN_devil Monkey

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    turning down the rebound might help with the front end twitching i assume?

    it bottoms out on both unfortunately and theres no high speed compression adjustment
     
  18. Joe W.Cup

    Joe W.Cup Chimp

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    The W. stands for World. Actually it's Willard.
    The bottom hole is the 8" setting.
     
  19. bdamschen

    bdamschen Turbo Monkey

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    Turning down the rebound COULD help if the shock is packing up over rough stuff because it's not rebounding quickly enough. If it's just on a single hit though, messing with the rebound wouldn't do much.

    Also just to help with a point of reference- I'm ~200lbs depending on how much beer I drank that day and running a 500lb shock in the 8" setting. For a while I was running a 450lb spring and was sitting way too deep into the travel, but still had a hard time bottoming out unless there's hard hits.
     
  20. leprechaun

    leprechaun Turbo Monkey

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    If you are unable to get the shock working to you liking PUSH is revalving Vivids now, and they say that the revalve/piston change creates a very good working shock. Apparently, like most shocks, regardless of the valving the piston is restrictive and kills off performance. It's less than 1/2 the price of a new shock. I would ride any brand of shock as long as Push revalves them.

    The 8" setting is on the end of the link, closest to the ground, farthest away from the pivot.
     
  21. AzN_devil

    AzN_devil Monkey

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    ok guys so if i am right i can have the 8" setting just by attaching the shock to the lower hole?
     
  22. jvnixon

    jvnixon Turbo Monkey

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    8" mode.

     
  23. dagmz6s

    dagmz6s Monkey

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    Dont take this wrong way but did you research this frame at all before buying it? the 951 is one of my top choices for next year and I know more about it than I should without owning one. the forums are your friends :)
     
  24. AzN_devil

    AzN_devil Monkey

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    thank you

    well not really..i only bought it because i dont have much to choose from thats within my budget...

    and i liked the few vpp bikes i have tried

    and...all i see are reviews of the 951 after a forum search...
     
  25. AzN_devil

    AzN_devil Monkey

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    ok i just got home and realized im on the 8" setting already

    guess i should wait till my tune c shim stack comes and see what happens next..
     
  26. MarkDH

    MarkDH Monkey

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    Just a couple of things: Have you actually phoned Intense to ask what tune they recommend? If they have half a clue about what they're building and aren't just welding together bikes that look pretty, they should be able to tell you if the B or C tune would be best. Also, it probably won't be a fantastic solution but have you swapped the bottom out bumper to the firmest rated one? Could help you in the meantime.
     
  27. TomBo

    TomBo Monkey

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    how hard are you bottoming it out?

    what are you doing when it bottoms out?

    some people seem to get very hung up on the whole bottom out = garbage setup. if it is mildly bottoming while taking large single hits, but tracking well the rest of the time. then it may just be something you may be able to deal with. not being personal here just making a point. at some point the rider has to deal with the energy involed in bigger impacts. either find better lines, be light on the bike or suck it up.
     
  28. dagmz6s

    dagmz6s Monkey

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    he shouldnt be bottoming in the 8" setting with that heavy of a spring. My guess is that the C-tune itself wont change that but a rebuild might.
     
  29. bdamschen

    bdamschen Turbo Monkey

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    yep. I'm 200lbs, occasionally cause huge and had the 450lb spring on for a while in the 8" setting and only bottomed out 1 or 2 times riding hard at northstar.

    Unless he's hucking off his garage repeatedly and calling it going for a ride, he shouldn't bottom out.

    I don't know about everyone else's opinion, but I love the way my RC4 feels on it, especially now that I finally got the right spring rate.
     
  30. WBC

    WBC Monkey

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    I'm 250lbs with an RC4 and I'm on a 450lbs spring, and have yet to bottom out hard in either mode, and most of my riding is steep, rock, tech with big hucks to flat. The only reason why I know I've bottomed is that I've set my seat to buzz exactly at full compression - it's been too soft to notice.

    I know the Vivid will require a higher spring-rate than the RC4, but if I'm 250 with a 450, you should be able to run a 400 at 200lbs with the vivid. It's the same leverage ratio as a lot of other bikes, so run the spring you would normally run and then up the LSC if you don't like how progressive the suspension design is.

    In reference to which tune - I'm really not sure, I am just saying don't give up on the shock or the frame, because there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to get it to work right with a reasonable spring rate. It seems like those guys at Push really know their stuff - so I'd send it there.
     
  31. AzN_devil

    AzN_devil Monkey

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    phone intense...will consider it..i need to find a landline that can make long distance..i aint from the US..and im using the firmest bottom out bumper already

    im not bottoming out very hard..the shock just keeps on barely touching the bottom out bumper...truth is..i just find it pretty weird for the shock to be working in mid to 3/4 stroke all the time ...my lines arent great but at least i made it through on my old transition blindside

    i will have to rebuild the shock when i put in the tune c shim stack anyways...so its just a long wait i guess
     
  32. skatetokil

    skatetokil Turbo Monkey

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    You're not bottoming out when you touch the bottom out bumper. You're bottoming out when the thing is squished down to a mm thick between the two halves of the shock. If you're even noticing the bottom out bumper maybe go to the softer one. I can't even tell when I get to it on the roco or the swingers i've had.

    You want to have it set soft enough that you use all your travel at least once a run. else why not buy a 7 inch bike? it's made to go squish.
     
  33. P.T.W

    P.T.W Monkey

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    When you said "i tried faster rebound" was that begining or end stroke rebound??? If your running waaaaay slow ending stroke rebound this will cause your bike to ride deep into its travel as you describe, an it will pack down on repeated hits. Is it bottoming on single hits or towards the end of a series of repeated hits?
    Oh an yeah just kissing your bumper is not really bottoming, the bumper(esp on a vivid) is there to be used an your losing about %20 travel by not using it.
    Have a gander at this http://www.sram.com/_media/pdf/tuning_guides/vivid_pocketguid_en.pdf
     
  34. DirtyMike

    DirtyMike Turbo Fluffer

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    What he said. Sounds like you need to put the softer bumper on it. If its nto flattened, it snot bottomed.

    Really does sound more like you jsut need to get your shock adjusted properly and life will be good.

    Seriously at this point, I would highly suggest doing some research on how the shock works, takinjg some time and getting it tuned properly.
     
  35. P.T.W

    P.T.W Monkey

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    Thats why ive pointed him towards the RockShox pocket tuning guide for the Vivid...its basic but its a start..heres the link again :thumb: http://www.sram.com/_media/pdf/tuning_guides/vivid_pocketguid_en.pdf
     
  36. AzN_devil

    AzN_devil Monkey

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    i do know how the shock works...or else i wont know how to rebuild it...but i never expected the shock to be going into the plastic bumper area...

    the only reason why i asked this is because i want to know if somethings wrong with my shock (tune/setting/whatever), or if its the frame itself
     
  37. P.T.W

    P.T.W Monkey

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    Dude don't mean to be rude but do you actually want people on here to try an help you? Or just someone to tell you that somethings wrong????
    Numerous people have given advice/ideas on how you might be able to fix your problem...or to even ring ring Intense themselves(email would work to), as they would be able to tell you for sure what tune Vivid is compatible with your frame(if it came on your frame OEM I'm sure its the right one).

    An the "plastic bumper" is meant to be used to cushion the last %20 of stroke in your shock..which you would have learnt if you had bothered to read the link i posted(or even done some research your self).
    Just to show that there's no hard feelings ill copy an paste the Drop Stop(ie that plasticity rubbery bumper thingy)section for your easy reading.........


    DropStop – a system of user
    changeable bottom out pads.
    Without disassembling the shock,
    the user can change the hardness
    of the bottom out bumper, either
    increasing or decreasing the amount
    of force required to get through the
    last 20% of the shock’s travel.
    To decrease the force required,
    change your DropStop pad to the one
    marked "SOFT". This will make it
    easier to get through the last 20% of
    the shock's travel.
    To increase the force required, change
    your DropStop pad to the one marked
    “HARD” on the bottom of the pad. This
    will make it harder to get through the
    last 20% of the shock’s travel.
    Keep in mind that your VIVID is
    designed to handle bottom out forces.
    So go ahead, use all of its travel
     
    #37 -   Dec 2, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  38. AzN_devil

    AzN_devil Monkey

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    i posted on here hoping for advice/ideas....and i did email Intense before i actually got the frame...

    the shock didnt come with the frame...

    and i did read the link you posted..in fact i left it open so i can check it again when i get home

    like i said in the last post....i never expected the shock to be going into the plastic bumper area...

    thank you all for your replies though i do appreciate you guys trying to help me out
     
  39. P.T.W

    P.T.W Monkey

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    Cool dude:thumb: sorry to get a lil antsy on ya.

    It does sound to me like you have your rebound waaaaaay to slow an the shocks packing down... for example

    i tried slowing down the rebound already but the bike is still twitchy AND the shock bottomed out even more...
    ie it got worse when you slowed down your rebound even more.

    ..i tried faster rebound but didn't really help much ie it did help but not enough.Try faster again


    im currently at 28-32% sag sounds good but then you say i just find it pretty weird for the shock to be working in mid to 3/4 stroke all the time .. this sounds to me like your static sag is ok but your dynamic sag is waaay to much an the bike is riding to far into its travel which is usually too slow on the rebound maybe coupled with too light compression damping.

    From the other posters with the same bike it doesn't sound like your spring is too soft an your static sag seems ok so i doubt its that(your using minimal preload right?)
    Just don't forget that the vivid has two rebound adjustments an to take the one you adjust into consideration when fiddling. you could also try firming up the compression damping but i think it will have minimal effect as its mainly a low speed adjustment on the Vivd.Also Dirtymike could be onto something with trying a softer bumper, if you learn to accept the fact that the bumpers meant to get abused going to a softer one will make it less noticeable when the shock initially contacts it

    Don't forget to come back an let us know how you got on:thumb:
     
    #39 -   Dec 2, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  40. MarkDH

    MarkDH Monkey

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    Just one thing about that Vivid pocket guide, I found the settings themselves to be a good starting point for my Sunday, but the guide makes it look like turning the ending stroke rebound dial clockwise will make it rebound faster. If you look at your shock, turning clockwise actually slows the rebound down. It was something that was confusing me at the time until I looked at the shock itself, just something to bear in mind.

    EDIT: Also, just in my limited experience, the ending stroke rebound has the influence you'd expect from a 'traditional' rebound setting on a more basic shock: it will stop the bucking feeling over big hits, jumps etc. Beginning stroke rebound seems to have an influence on this in the car park, but on the trail it seems to have more effect on grip than anything else. I'd set it a bit faster than the end stroke. As has been mentioned above, it sounds like your end stroke rebound might be too slow, so if it was me I'd speed that up first.
     
    #40 -   Dec 2, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009