Interesting article in Bicycle Retailer about Manitou

J5ive · May 31, 2006

Read- 'Our 05 stance line was a piece of ****- so no one was dumb enough to buy the same crap in 06'.

dhbuilder · May 31, 2006

J5ive said:
Read- 'Our 05 stance line was a piece of ****- so no one was dumb enough to buy the same crap in 06'.

bingo !!
hey, howabout those dorado forks ?
and what about the six to seven weeks you had to wait last year when your swinger blew up, just for them to send you a replcement ?

jonKranked · May 31, 2006

they are going to change their motto to "Manitou: making horrific pieces of s*** for way too long"

as soon as i find the link, i'll post the picture of my friends stance gold (which actually is a nice fork for street and park - this is the first nice thing i've ever said about manitou for the record), the axle clamps snapped the first time he put the wheel on.

stiksandstones · May 31, 2006

Does it mention in that article how the new parent company doctored the books to make it look like they were making more money than they were-while they were out shopping the brand around???

Sounds like a schwinn/gt/questor mess brewing.

Jose and Joel are gone as well, the 2 shining stars at that company.

urbaindk · May 31, 2006

I've been really pleased with my '05 Flick. I'm so glad I spent a little extra and didn't get a stance....

oly · May 31, 2006

Here is the website for Bicycle Retailer...

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/index.jsp

Couldnt find the Manitou story though....

jonKranked · May 31, 2006

sanjuro said:
I am sure they tried their best...

not trying to sound like an ass or excessively sarcastic, but it doesn't show in some of their products.

Zutroy · May 31, 2006

jonKranked said:
not trying to sound like an ass or excessively sarcastic, but it doesn't show in some of their products.

Well i hate to be the one that tells ya, but what the company puts out the doors isn't just one persons decision. Everyone gets there finger into it, sales and marketing.the bean counters.etc, by the time it gets out the door, it can be a radically different product than what the product development people come up with. A lot of bad product has nothing to do with the people that designed them.

jonKranked · May 31, 2006

Zutroy said:
Well i hate to be the one that tells ya, but what the company puts out the doors isn't just one persons decision. Everyone gets there finger into it, sales and marketing.the bean counters.etc, by the time it gets out the door, it can be a radically different product than what the product development people come up with. A lot of bad product has nothing to do with the people that designed them.

really? ya don't say? see, i always thought that prototypes were always perfect right off the bat and always go straight into production too! :rolleyes:

Zutroy · May 31, 2006

jonKranked said:
really? ya don't say? see, i always thought that prototypes were always perfect right off the bat and always go straight into production too!

No, but you can get to a prototype that's exactly what the designers want is just the ticket, but it's be a peice of crap after going into production.

dump · May 31, 2006

Had great results from the 3 manitou forks I've owned... would like them to stay around.

jonKranked · May 31, 2006

Zutroy said:
No, but you can get to a prototype that's exactly what the designers want is just the ticket, but it's be a peice of crap after going into production.

trust me, i understand how these things work. i work at a major pharma company, and other than the engineers/chemists, marketing has the most say in changes. as well as regulatory (b/c of all the FDA regulations we have to follow). an idea can be beautiful and flawless as a prototype, but many times (read "always") ends up modified and/or dumbed down b/c production cost would be astronomical.

Zutroy · May 31, 2006

jonKranked said:
trust me, i understand how these things work. i work at a major pharma company, and other than the engineers/chemists, marketing has the most say in changes. as well as regulatory (b/c of all the FDA regulations we have to follow). an idea can be beautiful and flawless as a prototype, but many times (read "always") ends up modified and/or dumbed down b/c production cost would be astronomical.

Pharma is alittle different....i spent many years slaving away for the Pharma man. The major difference is when you build something mechanical/electronic, you start getting bean counter in going...well why are you using this part....couldn't you use something less expensive...then you start getting cheap parts that explode....etc....let me tell ya alot of "I told ya so" gets said after the fact....at least around here.

jonKranked · May 31, 2006

even if they use the cheaper part, i wouldn't be surprised if a company charged the same amount as they would if they used the more expensive part. for many companies its all about trying to maximize profits.

Zutroy · May 31, 2006

jonKranked said:
even if they use the cheaper part, i wouldn't be surprised if a company charged the same amount as they would if they used the more expensive part. for many companies its all about trying to maximize profits.

Bingo...that's what happens here.

blue · May 31, 2006

Interesting...I'd like to get my hands on the full article. Myself and a friend were discussing this a few weeks ago (Manitou/Answer's craptacularness in the past 2 years).

jonKranked · May 31, 2006

yea dude they've really jumped the shark.

James · May 31, 2006

It all goes in cycles. Remember a couple of years ago everyone was bagging on how bad Rock Shox was? Worst forks, worst company, etc. Before that it was Answer again.
Granted, the issues with the company are a bigger matter. I'm sure they're not going anywhere, it'll be a hard time for them, but they'll be back with some cool new stuff, and everyone will be around to bag on RS for their crappy forks.

bjanga · May 31, 2006

Seems to me like Manitou got too caught up in technology (RA, 1.5, SPV) when, in my opinion, suspension just needed small changes and refinements.

bballe336 · May 31, 2006

I have to say I am more than pleased with my suspensions stuff from Manitou. Their CS has been great. And they have gotten forks back to me in under a week from the time that I shipped it. I will be buying more manitou products in 2007 for sure.

TheMontashu · May 31, 2006

Just James said:
It all goes in cycles. Remember a couple of years ago everyone was bagging on how bad Rock Shox was? Worst forks, worst company, etc. Before that it was Answer again.
Granted, the issues with the company are a bigger matter. I'm sure they're not going anywhere, it'll be a hard time for them, but they'll be back with some cool new stuff, and everyone will be around to bag on RS for their crappy forks.

Rock shox still sucks, nothing has changes there. Sids are noodles and boxxers blow up. zokes are still heavy but bombproof and foxs still ride good and a re pretty light

bballe336 · May 31, 2006

TheMontashu said:
Rock shox still sucks, nothing has changes there. Sids are noodles and boxxers blow up. zokes are still heavy but bombproof and foxs still ride good and a re pretty light

Apparently you live under a rock.

The boxxers don't blow up. Sids are still pretty much the best XC forks. And zokes really aren't heavy anymore. And the 40 is nothing special.

You can go back under your rock now.

Jm_ · May 31, 2006

bjanga said:
Seems to me like Manitou got too caught up in technology (RA, 1.5, SPV) when, in my opinion, suspension just needed small changes and refinements.

I'd agree with that 100%.

Take the TPC+ forks. Good damping, good action, just refine the chassis, make them more durable, and you'd have some serious competition suspension-wise.

Instead of doing that, manitou got caught up in SPV and then trying to "fix" SPV for 3+ years straight. And there's no mystery as to why they've had to do this, because the SPV stuff can't compete performance wise to what the other companies have. They can make them dive less and resist bobbing, but the bottom line is that the performance goes down, and so they've had to "fix" the damping system, and the sad thing was that TPC+ was a pretty darn good damping system.

Jm_ · May 31, 2006

TheMontashu said:
Rock shox still sucks, nothing has changes there. Sids are noodles and boxxers blow up. zokes are still heavy but bombproof and foxs still ride good and a re pretty light

Well, RS has made some huge improvements, but SIDs are still a joke!

TheMontashu · May 31, 2006

bballe336 said:
Apparently you live under a rock.

The boxxers don't blow up. Sids are still pretty much the best XC forks. And zokes really aren't heavy anymore. And the 40 is nothing special.

You can go back under your rock now.

Boxxers do explode I have a friend who has one that has blown 4 times and his dads has blown 3. DHtahoe (he dont come on here any more) litrealy had to push his seels back in the fork after every run on more than one ocasion. Sids are noodles pure and simple, there light so people run them but they are noodles. Zokes arent THAT heavy but compared to fox, manitou, and rock shox they are the heavyest.

And the 40s are sick, there super plush and hace some of the best small bump sensitivity I have ever felt, while still not bottoming hard on the big stuff and they are super tunable.

Rock shox is on there way up though.

TheMontashu · May 31, 2006

sanjuro said:
And these are all 05 or newer Boxxers?

The one town had was and the one my friends dad has is

jonKranked · May 31, 2006

the new boxxers are ill. 40's are good, but for the money, you're better off with a BWC. haven't ridden the new travis yet, but haven't heard much about it either. 888's are still the best bang for the buck, and its a close call b/w that and the new boxxers. if rumors are true and there will be an air 888 next year we will have a new king of forks.

edit: the new boxxers do take a lot of maintenance, ie monthly rebuilds. compared to 888's which need little maintenance. but the bcw is also under 6lbs. pros and cons to each.

bballe336 · May 31, 2006

TheMontashu said:
Boxxers do explode I have a friend who has one that has blown 4 times and his dads has blown 3. DHtahoe (he dont come on here any more) litrealy had to push his seels back in the fork after every run on more than one ocasion. Sids are noodles pure and simple, there light so people run them but they are noodles. Zokes arent THAT heavy but compared to fox, manitou, and rock shox they are the heavyest.

And the 40s are sick, there super plush and hace some of the best small bump sensitivity I have ever felt, while still not bottoming hard on the big stuff and they are super tunable.

Rock shox is on there way up though.

05 and up boxxers are very reliable. And all pure XC race forks are noodly. Also the 40 doesn't offer anything that sets it apart from the 888, boxxer, or travis. And it is ungodly expensive.

TheMontashu · May 31, 2006

bballe336 said:
05 and up boxxers are very reliable. And all pure XC race forks are noodly. Also the 40 doesn't offer anything that sets it apart from the 888, boxxer, or travis. And it is ungodly expensive.

The foxs and zokes are pretty stiff for XC forks. And the 40 is pretty much mantenence free. The travis has NOTHING to offer, I belive that this thread is all about how manitous suck dick. The WC is an air fork, the 40 is better in that its a coil (in my opinion) and you dosnt have to work on them after every ride. The 40 is also plusher and lighter than the 888

bjanga · May 31, 2006

bballe336 said:
And all pure XC race forks are noodly

Fox, Marzocchi? Or do those not count because of weight?

bballe336 · May 31, 2006

TheMontashu said:
The foxs and zokes are pretty stiff for XC forks. And the 40 is pretty much mantenence free. The travis has NOTHING to offer, I belive that this thread is all about how manitous suck dick. The WC is an air fork, the 40 is better in that its a coil (in my opinion) and you dosnt have to work on them after every ride. The 40 is also plusher and lighter than the 888

You make little to no sense. How does having an air spring make it require maintenance after every ride? Half of the XC fork market and almost the whole XC and trail bike rear shock market consists of air shocks. Most of them are low maintenance. Also the 40 requires a complete tear down every season and this requires the fork to be sent away to fox. At least you can rebuild a boxxer yourself.

bballe336 · May 31, 2006

bjanga said:
Fox, Marzocchi? Or do those not count because of weight?

XC race forks are designed to be under 3 lbs. What under 3 pound fork isn't a noodle?

ghettogt76 · May 31, 2006

TheMontashu said:
The foxs and zokes are pretty stiff for XC forks. And the 40 is pretty much mantenence free. The travis has NOTHING to offer, I belive that this thread is all about how manitous suck dick. The WC is an air fork, the 40 is better in that its a coil (in my opinion) and you dosnt have to work on them after every ride. The 40 is also plusher and lighter than the 888

You are retarded. How bout we make a thread on how you suck dick?

Anyway, just since you own a 40 doesn't make it the best. Sorry.

bballe336 · May 31, 2006

ghettogt76 said:
You are retarded. How bout we make a thread on how you suck dick?

Anyway, just since you own a 40 doesn't make it the best. Sorry.

I wanted to say exactly that. But couldn't do it over the internet. I didn't want to deal with the massive flame war. Although I do agree with your post.

ghettogt76 · May 31, 2006

bballe336 said:
I wanted to say exactly that. But couldn't do it over the internet. I didn't want to deal with the massive flame war. Although I do agree with your post.

I can ride to his house in about 30 seconds, so if he starts anything I can go there and kick his ass :rofl:

TheMontashu · May 31, 2006

bballe336 said:
You make little to no sense. How does having an air spring make it require maintenance after every ride? Half of the XC fork market and almost the whole XC and trail bike rear shock market consists of air shocks. Most of them are low maintenance. Also the 40 requires a complete tear down every season and this requires the fork to be sent away to fox. At least you can rebuild a boxxer yourself.

You don't need to send your fox back, jest go to a race hand the tech your fork and fox will fix it free of charge. Doing that once a year sounds way better than a rebuild once a month done by me.

Interesting article in Bicycle Retailer about Manitou

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