[Jeremy R]

Its really just not even close.
And I am not just talking about Whistler here, Its all ski resorts.
I went snowboarding at Snowshoe this past winter on a really crappy weekend where it rained and stayed foggy. I would see more people in a single run than I do while there for a entire Norba National Race weekend.
These numbers will never be close.

 

[offtheedge]

Some revenue in the summer beats the hell out of no revenue.
Ask the folks who have business's in and around Big Bear.

 

[trailhacker]

...and I could argue that Whistler, the ski mountain, is less famous the Whistler, the mountain bike park; and the prestige from DH carries over to the winter.

Whistler had a strangle-hold on best destination resort in North America for like 4-6 years in a row not so long ago. It was a pretty big deal.
Outside of us, the biking community, I would venture a guess that winter people have no idea about Whistler and bikes in the summer?

 

[blue]

You're out of your mind.

Hard visitor numbers for 2004 bike and ski season @ Whistler-Blackcomb:

Bike Park: 72,831.
Ski: 2.03 million.

Source:
http://www.whistler.ca/files/PDF/Planning/Information/03-04_RMOW_Monitoring_Report_Final_Edition_W.pdf

 

[downhill mike]

Another number to consider is: for example @ Whiteface we as a private business charge $30.00 a day for biking. In the winter Whiteface charges more than double that for the skiing/snowboarding.
So not only are the crowds bigger in the winter they spend much more.
Long live the private businesses that operate downhill parks at ski areas.
Diablo, Whiteface and I'm sure there are many more.

Downhill Mike
www.whiteface.com
Size does matter!

 

[davep]

Do you guys ski?

Ski? No.
Snowboard? Yes.

I have been in the wholesale and retail sides of the snowboard business for the past 12+ years.

The ski biz is in the ****ter and has been there realistically since the 80's. There have been a few exceptions like the influx of the snowboard, and a small increase due to 'shaped skiis' but sales have been declining for years. My sources? V.P of salomon, Pres of Rossignol, V.P. of K2 etc.

Allong with the above trend in retail goods, ticket sales have been on a similar downward trend. I not going to argue that some little mountain in the mid atlantic might have had a good year, or that the Tahoe are is not attracting skiiers, but ticket sales are down all over the U.S. especially in the last 4 -5 years and in the west. Again sources?? Same as listed above as well as marketing dept from many large ski areas including Whistler, mt hood, as well as many conversations with national sales managers from all the major ski and snowboard companies.

As to my specific Whistler comments. yo are correct, no hard #'s but I have had the converation with many whistler retailers as well as mountain representives (marketing) and ski industry business owners in whistler over the past four years. This year specifically, I talked to a couple of business owners in the village that said that "summer biz is better that winter, and crankworks week was buiser than ever in the village". Keep in mind that many (most) retail business in whistler village is owned by interwest (the mountain).

On a completely unrelated topic, believe it or not, but the earth is getting warmer for whatever reason. Snow packs are down, snow fall is down all over the world.........no snow = no winter biz!

 

[Red Bull]

something to consider is how many lifts they run in the winter opposed to how many they run in the summer. Im under the impression that that only one or two lifts are run for mountain bikers, correct? how many are there in the winter? 15? 20?

i know mtb revenue doesent come close to what they make for skiing, but that does help.

 

[kidwoo]

Ski? No.
Snowboard? Yes.

I have been in the wholesale and retail sides of the snowboard business for the past 12+ years.

The ski biz is in the ****ter and has been there realistically since the 80's. There have been a few exceptions like the influx of the snowboard, and a small increase due to 'shaped skiis' but sales have been declining for years. My sources? V.P of salomon, Pres of Rossignol, V.P. of K2 etc.

Allong with the above trend in retail goods, ticket sales have been on a similar downward trend. I not going to argue that some little mountain in the mid atlantic might have had a good year, or that the Tahoe are is not attracting skiiers, but ticket sales are down all over the U.S. especially in the last 4 -5 years and in the west. Again sources?? Same as listed above as well as marketing dept from many large ski areas including Whistler, mt hood, as well as many conversations with national sales managers from all the major ski and snowboard companies.

As to my specific Whistler comments. yo are correct, no hard #'s but I have had the converation with many whistler retailers as well as mountain representives (marketing) and ski industry business owners in whistler over the past four years. This year specifically, I talked to a couple of business owners in the village that said that "summer biz is better that winter, and crankworks week was buiser than ever in the village". Keep in mind that many (most) retail business in whistler village is owned by interwest (the mountain).

On a completely unrelated topic, believe it or not, but the earth is getting warmer for whatever reason. Snow packs are down, snow fall is down all over the world.........no snow = no winter biz!

If skiing is in such a decline why did K2 buy volkl, Line and karhu and not get back into making mountain bikes? Salomon? Think armada, line etc....... And hooray for rossi losing........they should be ashamed of themselves for the crap they sell as skis. It's kind of like watching karpiel complain about revenue and thinking that says something about downhilling as a whole.

I'm not here to argue the future of skiing but what you hear resorts and manufacturers whine about is not true decline. It's a decline in the rate of growth. I live in one of the densest areas for this genre and I hear the same thing over and over and it's BS. It's not decline......it's tapering of growth. A good friend of mine is an active member of the resort association through squaw. Nothing is down. It's just not up the same percentage compared to the previous year as a few years ago. Why would northstar/heavenly/squaw be building more lifts and an expanded village? Why did mammoth (mountain not village) just sell to an investor? The rate of growth has slowed.......that's IT. Don't believe the hype.

REGARDLESS...............bikes don't hold a candle to winter business which was my point. I'm not arguing this because I like the idea, I'm arguing it because I ski 100+ days a year and I know what brings in da bizness as I see it with my own eyes.

You live in seattle........tell me what whistler/b.comb looks like on a 3 day weekend. Are you honestly going to tell me that one week in summer totals all those holiday weekends in winter and even surpasses them?

 

[davep]

I agree with you Woo that generally the ski biz dwarfs the bike biz.

The winter weather in the northwest has sucked for several years now and this combined with exchange rates, and 9/11, and a general lull in the biz, has caused whister to have two of the worst winters for ticket sales these past years. Their summer biz just keeps growing though, seemingly unaffected. Whister is an anomally no doubt, but i can say that the village was buisier this crankworks that the last Telus fest that i went to a year and a half ago. You certainly do not see De La playing Telus.

I will agree that some of the smaller ski co's are trying to breathe some life into things but you need to remember that you live in a ski town in the middle of the largest destination ski area in the U.S. ...and you live in cali.

By that I mean two things: california has lots and lots of people (lots of sales) and in general, people in california are very trend concious. They are much more likely to go out and buy the 'newest and coolest' ski or snowboard or whatever. There have been many small snowboard brands born in cali over the past ten years and most are sucessful with in the state, but once they try to push their products nation wide, they fail. In my experience, most consumers (outside of california) are more aprehensive of new brands and product, and will wait for a brand or trend to prove itself before purchace.

Just because you see lots of twin tipped skiis @ Tahoe, don't make the mistake of thinking that they are in the same concentration every where else. I have been to Tahoe to board many times as well as washington, oregon, nevada, utah, wyoming, alaska, colorado, BC, alberta...coached at the largest summer snowboard camp. Nowhere are kids more into the newest coolest trends that cali.

As for the K2 thing, two reasons. The k2 brand itself is shot. Their skiis dont sell (even in their home city). their snowboards dont sell. They bought volkl to have a brand that had some respect, just like what they did with Ride showboards, and dana designs packs (among others). Second, they needed a binding. The majority of skiis now are a system of ski and binding, and k2 was the only major player that did not have a binding brand somewhere in the company. By buying Volkl, they got a binding company that was teetering on the brink) as well (and a well respected clothing brand to boot as the k2 clothing always sucked). Problem solved.

K2, for the last ten years has been in the biz of buying companies with financial probs but generally good reputations and gutting the co and making a profit by selling cheap overseas versions of the original brand (ride, 5150, dana designs, planet earth, adio, mormot, ex officio, rawlings, shakespear, stearns, volkl, marker, pro-flex). K2 did not buy marker/volkl because the ski biz is great, they bought the brands to attempt to stay in the ski biz.

edit..
karhu and line: Karhu owned line and could never get it off the ground. They tried for years to sell a ski with a mount for a specific binding that WAS NOT MADE. WTF? Again, a co with a great 'cool' potential that was suffering and k2 swallowed them up to have a 'cool' twin tipped brand. Why did karhu sell?? Well karhu has been making a majority of the Burton snowboards since the beginings of Burton. The ex-owner kept the factoy and the rights to mfg those boards. So they sold all of the headaches of two struggling brands and keep the mfg facility where all the $$ is.

 

[kidwoo]

You haven't been to summit county in a while. I admit I live in a hotbed now but the sheer volume of skier visits happens just as much at the cottonwoods/park city, summit county, jackson, hood meadows et al. I've only lived here 6 years but used to pay lots of money to go everywhere else in the country when I lived back east.........it's the same in those places. Even beech mountain, NC and snowshoe are slammed on weekends.

on K2.....dood.......if there wasn't money to be made in skiing why would they keep expanding ski lines......the make ROLLERBLADES!! They could be killing it. . They stay in the ski business because they know there's money to be made there. And yeah they bought volkl to have a "good" ski line (Unfortunately they killed the volkl rep in the process) but the point is there's still money changing hands. If it wasn't worth it, it wouldn't be happening. K2 by themselves are as popular as ever without other names on the skis. The sport isn't going anywhere.

Tangent aside.........lift serviced biking doesn't hold a candle to skiing. That's all I ever wanted to say. Anyone who skis regularly can see this.

Only someone who doesn't would ever make the claim otherwise and believe it.

 

[blue]

Tangent aside.........lift serviced biking doesn't hold a candle to skiing. That's all I ever wanted to say. Anyone who skis regularly can see this.

Yep.

Skiing here has been as awesome since 2002 that it's ever been...

 

[particle bored]

Ski? No.
Snowboard? Yes.

I have been in the wholesale and retail sides of the snowboard business for the past 12+ years.

The ski biz is in the ****ter and has been there realistically since the 80's.

You have a funny definition of "business."

I guess you have seriously overlooked the radical improvements in skis, boots and bindings that have occurred during that 20-year period of the business being in the $hitter.

The "word on the street" of skiing being "in the $hitter" has to do with the first SERIOUS upswing in skiing gear sales and lift tix sales in the mid-to-late 70s. When that upswing reversed and things went back to the way they were before the upswing, some naysayers said that it was "in the $hitter."

If you were a speculator-type of investor and were seeking massive gains of the sort that happened in the 2d half of the 70s, of course you would find it was "in the $hitter" because you missed the big growth period that made a few people rich on their skiing-related investments.

Seen historically and sensibly, without looking at skiing as a get-rich-with-no-effort-and-minimal-investment style of "business," there is nothing at all wrong with where skiing stands right now.

I have been a serious skier for 30 years, and worked at a very reputable and respectable ski shop from '79 through '86... Ski Center in Washington DC, if you know that area. I have been familiar with ski gear since that time.

There is absolutely no question that ski equipment is vastly superior now. And most of that superiority arose during the period when you say the business was "in the $hitter." It's laughable to say that such improvements and advancements can occur when the business is "in the $hitter," because such advancements and improvements prove that the business was a good long way away from the toilet.

 

[particle bored]

Tangent aside.........lift serviced biking doesn't hold a candle to skiing. That's all I ever wanted to say. Anyone who skis regularly can see this.

Only someone who doesn't would ever make the claim otherwise and believe it.

Thasss a fack Jack.

 

[particle bored]

The k2 brand itself is shot. Their skiis dont sell (even in their home city). their snowboards dont sell. They bought volkl to have a brand that had some respect, just like what they did with Ride showboards, and dana designs packs (among others).

Dude, as I read your thoughts it seems you define "business" as a get-rich-quick vehicle sort of like Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken defined "business." Remember what happened to them in the 80s, at about the time you say skiing was going "in the $hitter"?

There's a good reason I point this out. Your perspective on skiing as a "business" resembles Boesky's and Milken's view on "business."

K2 is not "shot." I know lots of people who love K2 skis and will keep buying them as long as they are made.

Lacking a "system binding" is boolshyte. K2 and Marker have had a long relationship and K2 doesn't need to make its own bindings. The companies that are consolidating are making foolish, short-term business decisions that will yield Boesky-like results. I agree that they made those decisions THNKING that they needed to have "system" stuff, but the industry as a whole is the one who tried to sell people on "systems" as a way to try to recreate the late-70s growth spurt. I don't know any serious, committed skier who hankers longingly for a "system" and is sad when he/she cannot get a "system." Bindings are equivalent in the present market. A Look is as good as a Tyrolia is as good as a Salomon. The radical differences that existed before the mid-80s no longer are there.

K2 bought Volkl for a different reason than you say. K2 had lost its experience designing non-race-stock (read, BIG production volume) skis for aggressive, high-speed skiing. The last time K2 was making wood torsion box skis was the late 70s and it abandoned that system when the late-70s growth spurt reversed. Volkl has traditionally focused on box construction woodcore skis for aggressive, high speed skiers. K2 adds Volkl and voila!, now K2 can gain some new insights on how to cater to those people who like the feel of Volkl skis. Ski differences in the present market are about feel and durability. If you don't know this, you're not as savvy as you pretend.

The general "problem" with the ski biz, if there is any problem at all, is that they are reaching for a late-70s growth spurt and are getting disappointed when their gimmicks -- like "systems" -- don't produce that growth spurt.

If you can't see this, you're not as wise on the ski business as you pretend. In fact, I'd observe that you are pretty danged ignorant despite your claim of working in the ski industry.

 

[gemini2k]

there's seems to be a lot of iggnorance in general about business here. Just because revenue is going up, or companies are buying or not buying each other, does not mean business is "good" or "bad". Unless any of u have seen income or cash flow statements this discussion is pretty worthless.

 

[kidwoo]

there's seems to be a lot of iggnorance in general about business here. Just because revenue is going up, or companies are buying or not buying each other, does not mean business is "good" or "bad". Unless any of u have seen income or cash flow statements this discussion is pretty worthless.

Whoa dude.......like what is...........like the meaning of "good" you know? I mean with like moral implications......or just like numbers or what?

and stuff


This discussion is not worthless because anyone with a clue knows dh biking is a speck compared to skiing and snowboarding. Pick up a transworld snowboarding mag sometime and measure its thickness. I don't need to see numbers.

 

[jbogner]

Luckily, skiing and biking aren't really competing since they're pretty much seasonally exclusive.

I think another factor in this buyout is the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver. The new owners have to be looking at huge revenue boosts when the Olympics come to town, and that's a great PR boost for an IPO... although 3 1/2 years would be a long time for these hedge funders to hold on to the company...

 

[Tootrikky]

I agree with you Woo that generally the ski biz dwarfs the bike biz.

The winter weather in the northwest has sucked for several years now and this combined with exchange rates, and 9/11, and a general lull in the biz, has caused whister to have two of the worst winters for ticket sales these past years. Their summer biz just keeps growing though, seemingly unaffected. Whister is an anomally no doubt, but i can say that the village was buisier this crankworks that the last Telus fest that i went to a year and a half ago. You certainly do not see De La playing Telus.

I will agree that some of the smaller ski co's are trying to breathe some life into things but you need to remember that you live in a ski town in the middle of the largest destination ski area in the U.S. ...and you live in cali.

By that I mean two things: california has lots and lots of people (lots of sales) and in general, people in california are very trend concious. They are much more likely to go out and buy the 'newest and coolest' ski or snowboard or whatever. There have been many small snowboard brands born in cali over the past ten years and most are sucessful with in the state, but once they try to push their products nation wide, they fail. In my experience, most consumers (outside of california) are more aprehensive of new brands and product, and will wait for a brand or trend to prove itself before purchace.

Just because you see lots of twin tipped skiis @ Tahoe, don't make the mistake of thinking that they are in the same concentration every where else. I have been to Tahoe to board many times as well as washington, oregon, nevada, utah, wyoming, alaska, colorado, BC, alberta...coached at the largest summer snowboard camp. Nowhere are kids more into the newest coolest trends that cali.

As for the K2 thing, two reasons. The k2 brand itself is shot. Their skiis dont sell (even in their home city). their snowboards dont sell. They bought volkl to have a brand that had some respect, just like what they did with Ride showboards, and dana designs packs (among others). Second, they needed a binding. The majority of skiis now are a system of ski and binding, and k2 was the only major player that did not have a binding brand somewhere in the company. By buying Volkl, they got a binding company that was teetering on the brink) as well (and a well respected clothing brand to boot as the k2 clothing always sucked). Problem solved.

K2, for the last ten years has been in the biz of buying companies with financial probs but generally good reputations and gutting the co and making a profit by selling cheap overseas versions of the original brand (ride, 5150, dana designs, planet earth, adio, mormot, ex officio, rawlings, shakespear, stearns, volkl, marker, pro-flex). K2 did not buy marker/volkl because the ski biz is great, they bought the brands to attempt to stay in the ski biz.

edit..
karhu and line: Karhu owned line and could never get it off the ground. They tried for years to sell a ski with a mount for a specific binding that WAS NOT MADE. WTF? Again, a co with a great 'cool' potential that was suffering and k2 swallowed them up to have a 'cool' twin tipped brand. Why did karhu sell?? Well karhu has been making a majority of the Burton snowboards since the beginings of Burton. The ex-owner kept the factoy and the rights to mfg those boards. So they sold all of the headaches of two struggling brands and keep the mfg facility where all the $$ is.

DaveP I used to work at K2 my roomate still does. I know you know me so be nice.


Almost everything you post in this thread is DEAD Wrong I don't even where to start.


Here a re few things I will clarify, I could go on and on. Seriously don't believe everything you hear kids..... especially if it's an industry rep that comes into your shop spraying BS like mad.

K2 skis are #1 in the WORLD right now. Theyt are the hottest ski in the market and the factory cannot make them fast enough.

Ride is #2 in North America and K2 Snow is #3





Cheap overseas brand? I know first hand that K2's manufacturing facilities are rivaled by none other in the industry. They have over 72000 square feet dedicated to R&D. State of the art testing and manufacturing equipment many of which no one else has. I could go on and on, but the simple fact is K2 can put a lot (usually double) more features into there boards and skis with the very BEST quality for the same price of any of their competitors. There is simply know one even close right now.

Line begged K2 to buy them mainly due to the fact that the engineers their knew that K2 has overseas manufacturing dialed and is producing that best quality products in the industry currently. They were struggling mightily with their manufactuiring. They never made Burton's boards, don't know here you got that info from?


I personally think K2's biggest hurdle to overcome is all the hate thrown at them from Reps and shop kids gossiping like little school girls. This thread is a prime example of how why to believe everything you hear.

Oh yeah last year was great snow wise in the NW!

 

[kidwoo]

Hey tootricky: how come you guys can't make skis that keep the topsheets attached?

Is that what the metal studs on my maiden aks are for?

 

[Transcend]

For the record, most Burton stuff is still made in Vermont, by Burton. Karhu does make some of their lower end stuff up here in Quebec however.

 

[Msisle Dad]

Hard visitor numbers for 2004 bike and ski season @ Whistler-Blackcomb:

Bike Park: 72,831.
Ski: 2.03 million.

Source:
http://www.whistler.ca/files/PDF/Planning/Information/03-04_RMOW_Monitoring_Report_Final_Edition_W.pdf

These #'s tell the story. Either they will continue to attempt to grow the MTB business to diversify their business and hedge against a poor winter or I predict they close it at all but the most successful venues.

 

[gemini2k]

^^^ good work. although I wonder if MTBer's spend more. That would be interesting to find out. Probably not thought, since I imagine skiing probably appeals to all the yuppie rich people way more the Dh-ing.

 

[vitox]

Do you guys ski?

ha you got it thats the main issue.
if it even was about number of riders vs skiers, then on top of that you would have to add the average spending for a mtn biker vs skier, i bet the skier spends from 1 to 5 times more per day on average than a mtn biker.

having said that, i think for ski resorts, having a mtn bike program can make a lot of sense in order to lower risks and to take advantage of infrastructure that will depreciate almost just as fast and expensively with or without bikes. its just that the market is tiny in comparison to ski

 

[Zutroy]

These #'s tell the story. Either they will continue to attempt to grow the MTB business to diversify their business and hedge against a poor winter or I predict they close it at all but the most successful venues.

You can't just look at the numbers. Interwest is not just a resort operator, they are a developer, the ski resorts ad value to the properties they sell. MTB will always be in the picture cause it ads even more value. It's easier to sell a condo at a 4 seasons resort than just a winter one.

 

[Msisle Dad]

You can't just look at the numbers. Interwest is not just a resort operator, they are a developer, the ski resorts ad value to the properties they sell. MTB will always be in the picture cause it ads even more value. It's easier to sell a condo at a 4 seasons resort than just a winter one.

Good point, but i believe they are both developer and operator.

 

[jbogner]

These #'s tell the story.

No they don't.

To tell the story, you'd also have to see the historical numbers that track the tremendous growth in the summer mountain biking program from its inception. Serious, big-digits growth. Compared to skiing, which has all but peaked for most big resorts, and now is at the whim of the snow gods as to whether they have a profitable season or not, summer mountain biking is all grow-grow-grow. Capitalism loves growth. Businesspeople LOVE properties that are on a solid upswing. Especially when the overhead is relatively low and your net per rider visit is high.

For the record, Whistler's skier visits over the past 5 years have fluctuated significantly, dipping as low as 1.7 million a year, and hitting as high as 2.2 million a year. All depends on the snow. But these visits are the highest of any resort in North America, so comparing mountain bike visits at the bike park to skier visits at Whistler is just senseless. Just because they make more money at skiing doesn't mean they aren't making plenty of money off biking. They pull in more skiers than any other resort in North America, so OF COURSE they make money at skiing.

The bike park's visits for '05 were nearly 100,000- a 30-something-percent year-over year gain from 2004, and 2006 is on track to top that by a good margin as well. For reference, their visits in their first year of operation (1999) was 10,000. In 6 years they saw a 1000% increase in their mountain biking business. That's incredible. There are many entire resorts (Sundance is one) that survive just fine on well under 100k skier visits a year.

All this is just to say that the worriers need not worry. This is not just a public service that Whistler is running, it's a very profitable business, and one that they're certainly not going to turn their backs on. No need for the doom and gloom...

 

[blue]

There are many entire resorts (Sundance is one) that survive just fine on well under 100k skier visits a year.

Sundance runs on a hell of a lot more than skiing...have you ever been there?

I can think of a number of resorts around here that function on under 100k skiers a year, but they're all tiny local crapholes (Beaver, Powder, Wolf/Nordic...)

 

[sanjuro]

Whistler had a strangle-hold on best destination resort in North America for like 4-6 years in a row not so long ago. It was a pretty big deal.
Outside of us, the biking community, I would venture a guess that winter people have no idea about Whistler and bikes in the summer?

Unless someone had marketing numbers, it is just speculation on my part. I just think that while Whistler is an excellent place to snowboard/ski, there are a lot of mountains in the world. But Whistler is the #1 mountain bike park, and while that might not attract the families, it has to count for something...

 

[Transcend]

The bike park's visits for '05 were nearly 100,000- a 30-something-percent year-over year gain from 2004, and 2006 is on track to top that by a good margin as well. For reference, their visits in their first year of operation (1999) was 10,000. In 6 years they saw a 100% increase in their mountain biking business. That's incredible.

That's also not a 100% increase. 100% of 10 000, is another 10 000, not another 90 000.

 

[jbogner]

That's also not a 100% increase. 100% of 10 000, is another 10 000, not another 90 000.

Forgot the last zero. Fixed. 1000% increase.

Sundance runs on a hell of a lot more than skiing...

And Whistler doesn't? 54% of total visitors to Whistler visit during the summer. Their convention and conference business is gigantic. Over $50 mil in lodging revenue during their summer season.

100,000 rider visits from running three lifts and spending reasonable amounts on trail construction and maintenance is a good, profitable and sustainable business. No company would give that up, especially with those growth rates...

 

[BillT]

100,000 rider visits from running three lifts and spending reasonable amounts on trail construction and maintenance is a good, profitable and sustainable business. No company would give that up, especially with those growth rates...

That's really pure speculation unless you have an intimate knowledge of Whistler's books...hell, even then, one could come up with a perfectly legitimate/acceptable cost accounting methodology to show whatever you wanted to show.

 

[bizutch]

**** it all...I'm headed to the store right now to buy wholesale rafts, floaties, Bullfrog and flippers. Gonna start my Arctic rafting company. It's gonna blow up huge once all this hot air you guys are spouting hits the atmosphere...

 

[Echo]

If I were youze guys, I'd be more worried about the effect of the Olympics on our beloved bike park. Last week the only trail I found that wasn't either closed or re-routed due to Olympic construction was Schleyer. And it's still 4 years until the Olympics.

 

[kidwoo]

If I were youze guys, I'd be more worried about the effect of the Olympics on our beloved bike park. Last week the only trail I found that wasn't either closed or re-routed due to Olympic construction was Schleyer. And it's still 4 years until the Olympics.

Are you sure you're not confusing that with trail maintenance?

Bike Park Report
The hot, dry weather finally broke this week. In fact, the Park has been refreshed by quite a bit of moisture lately. While this temporarily turned the trails from dry and dusty to wet and muddy it is exactly what the Park needed. This week the trail crew focus has been on MAINTENANCE. A-Line has been buffed top to bottom, Upper Freight Train has received some much needed love and the crew is working on restoring Dirt Merchant to mint condition. The forecast for this weekend and early next week is bluebird which should result in some of the best riding conditions of the summer.

Full Report

 

[Echo]

Are you sure you're not confusing that with trail maintenance?

If "trail maintenance" means "bulldozing huge tracts of property" and "routing trails next to the roads being created to get to these new huge tracts" then I guess you're right on

Don't get me wrong, it was still awesome riding, but do you really think they are going to advertize on their website how the quality of the bike park is being compromised by the Olympic construction?

Go see it first hand and tell me what you think...

 

[Transcend]

They were laying snowmaking pipe everywhere the last few weeks. I wouldn't worry TOO much about it.

 

[kidwoo]

If "trail maintenance" means "bulldozing huge tracts of property" and "routing trails next to the roads being created to get to these new huge tracts" then I guess you're right on

Don't get me wrong, it was still awesome riding, but do you really think they are going to advertize on their website how the quality of the bike park is being compromised by the Olympic construction?

Go see it first hand and tell me what you think...

Leaving friday.

 

[Echo]

Leaving friday.

Kick ass.

 

[bockner]

These guys are buying the corp first and foremost as a real estate investment....Running a ski mountain is unbelievable exp and not very profitable with TONS of liability. But selling condos to 7 figure earners out of the Northeast, Seattle and San Fran while money is still historically cheap is a fine way to make $$$$$.

All of you who have been to Whistler this year and can comp it to last year know that land values there are through the roof and everywhere you turn new condos are being built. Private equity guys buy undervalued assets and break them up and sell them off....think of stealing a car and selling it for its parts (not that any of us do that)...An even better example is look what has been done to Stratton Mtn. in Vermont in terms of development.

If any activity will make the resort more of a year round destination I would count on keeping it, especially in a place like Whistler where closing the bike park (arguably where freeriding was born) could cause backlash.

Further more, no one is going to do anything to bring bad publicity to a place 3 years before the olympics...no one is that stupid.