[Brian HCM#1]

I agree with Brain. Not because I give a flyin-fuk about Karpiel, but because *I* don't have any experience with them and thus cannot judge them.

Almost all the 'horror' stories we hear about Karpiel stem from what looks like only a few unsatisfied customers. And from that, everyone spreads the negative experiences around vicariously.

Brian had a good experience with Karpiel, and his experience should be just as valid as the bad experiences we hear about on the board. It's too bad that people like to remember the bad experiences than to share the good ones.

-B

Thank you thats the point I was trying to make.

 

[binary visions]

This whole, "don't speak unless you've had direct personal experience" bit is completely absurd.

You can't possibly speak with everyone who's had direct experience with everything. Not even in a userbase as broad as the one we've got here. That's why people read and retain knowledge and relay it to others, even if they haven't actually touched the product they're discussing.

Don't be such a hypocrite. Hi, pot, this is kettle calling... Are you going to tell me that you've never spoken about anything that you haven't had direct, first hand experience with?

Reputations exist for a reason. If you can keep one guy from spending a few grand on a frame that breaks on his very first run, and he has to eat the cost of because Jan "I'm a fvckup" Karpiel has already spent his money, then you've done a good service.

Brian's experience is as valid. His insistance that nobody talk about Karpiel, without personally being serviced by Jan, is not valid.

 

[Low_b]

It did take him over a year, but he did get a second frame out of it too.

My arrangement was for 2 frames.
I did not get a second frame for my wait time.
Each frame took 9-10 months to receive from the time I completed the order form.

Getting the second frame was a fiasco...As much as I like Jan as a person, I will never do business or ride a Karpiel after these frames.

And to Luc, chill with your remarks about the bikes being turds..They are not.
But you knock every bike accept the one you own..Oh yea you don't own a bike!!

 

[Curb Hucker]

Ok, jan was 2.5 months behind his delivery date when we agreed on our subcontractor contracts. We delivered on time, and of higher quality than expected. After a month and a half i began to get the run around, i threatened it tell the BBB, and FTC and i'd sue him if i didnt get my frame that week. 2 days later the frame was on my doorstep, except it didnt belong to me, it was Low B's. Low B also waited a year for his 2nd frame and was never payed for 2 of 3 years of work. and Brian, you pay full retail on your frames, i bet your opinions might be different if you didnt

 

[Jeremy R]

First off, running late on frames as a small frame builder is common.
It happens to them all, and mostly because things happen that out of their control. Being lied to about it really sucks though.
Next, not being able to pay your vendors sucks as well, but that could be part of the whole going out to business deal. If you don't have the cash, you don't have the cash.
However, is it not a known fact that that skinflute shipped out frames that were not heat treated to paying customers?!? Knowing good and well, the first time they are ridden hard, that are gonna snap, and could cause serious injury. Insane. I mean somebody correct me if I am wrong about this, but I thought it was a well known fact.
You don't pull that stuff around here, cause your door bell would be ringing,
followed by alot of slow singing and flower bringing.

 

[Acadian]

Brian, you pay full retail on your frames, i bet your opinions might be different if you didnt

I think you got that one backwards?

 

[Low_b]

However, is it not a known fact that that skinflute shipped out frames that were not heat treated to paying customers?!?

I know one of those frames went to a friend of his who paid cash and used to work in his shop.. :eviltongu

 

[Acadian]

But you knock every bike accept the one you own..

I have to...it's in my e-contract.

 

[OGRipper]

Brian's experience is as valid. His insistance that nobody talk about Karpiel, without personally being serviced by Jan, is not valid.

Yeah, true dat.

And if Brian has been personally serviced by Yawn, it's no wonder he's such a fan.

 

[-BB-]

So he lacked a lot of business skills. I'm aware he didn't pay or took a very long time to pay his subcontractors. My point is unless you've had a bad experiance with a person they shouldn't talk negative like they have. Thats all.

I agree, but since they are right, and you are defending him, it makes you come off as a Jan supporter, or like someone who can't admit that he (jan) did wrong.

 

[binary visions]

And if Brian has been personally serviced by Yawn, it's no wonder he's such a fan.

Thank you! I'm really glad that I wasn't the only one that had my mind in the gutter as I typed that.

 

[OGRipper]

No problem BV, it's gutter Friday as far as I know...

 

[-BB-]

My arrangement was for 2 frames.
I did not get a second frame for my wait time.
Each frame took 9-10 months to receive from the time I completed the order form.

Getting the second frame was a fiasco...As much as I like Jan as a person, I will never do business or ride a Karpiel after these frames.

And to Luc, chill with your remarks about the bikes being turds..They are not.
But you knock every bike accept the one you own..Oh yea you don't own a bike!!

Ouch....

Um... Why are we all letting Some dude named Jan (who may or may not be a crook) get us all to the point where guys who are friends (Brian, Low_B, Acadian) are ripping on each other.
Is Jan really worth all that?

Brian, You support Jan b/c you haven't had bad dealings with him. Cool.
Low_B You have had bad dealings...
Luc, You haven't had any dealings...
Why don't we all just let what happens to Jan Happen and lets stop giving a Sheit. Is it really worth it?

 

[dhtahoe]

the newest story to keep people from taking his design and building. Some people on this forum have been talking about it...... now BAM it has pending copyrights and patents. His web guy watches this board all the time and I think he changed it to prevent other from producing bikes.

 

[James | Go-Ride]

That was VV. Jan was 2 in a half weeks late on his promised delivery date. I've seen Foes, Intense and SC take even longer, so its just the nature of the beast.

So most of you who've been familiar with us are probably aware that we (up until about a year ago anyway, when we stopped checking) are the largest Karpiel dealer in the world, bar none. So I feel fairly justified in mentioning a few things here.

Every bike company will have delays. However, with the exception of the M3 from Intense, I have NEVER seen a company take so long to get their frames out. And at least the M3 had a bit of an excuse; it's a new frame, and Intense didn't want to produce something that wasn't going to cut it. Karpiels have always taken a long time to get, and in the finals months before this finger-chopping debacle we had a few customers who waited 7 - 8 months for their frames. That is unacceptable for most customers, and it puts the retailer in a bad spot because the customer doesn't know if Jan is actually going slow or if the shop just took the customer's money and never ordered the frame. So in that light, Jan is bad news for the industry in general.

However, Jan's redeeming value is that fact that while he is utterly lacking in any sort of business administration skills, he is a good frame builder (albeit not the best frame welder but that's another story) with good ideas and he actually understands how bicycle suspension should work in terms of wheelpath and progression. He also rides downhill, which IMO gives him at least more street credit or whatever you want to call it than many other top frame company owners. If somebody buys the rights to Karpiel and allows Jan to just do design or consultation work, the brand could come back to the top of the pack.

Brian I know it's hard to throw somebody who's treated you well to the wolves of the eDH community, but in this case I think most of these people are right. You have customers and vendors, as well of friends of customers and friends of vendors, that are pissed at the guy for good reason. Maybe you've never been burned by him but that doesn't exclude him from being a bit of a failure to the rest of the community.

My $0.02.

 

[Ridemonkey]

I just think its wrong for someone to say, don't deal with him he's a crook, when they have never dealt with him personally. People are going by what they've heard instead of what has actually happend to them. Thats the point I'm trying to make.

How is this any different that the bad traders we have hung out to dry on RM?

 

[dhtahoe]

Last weeks story was that he was moving back to Poland and his father was going to back his company. Now there is a whole new story.

 

[Kornphlake]

Well you know they say that even bad press is good press right. I predict Jan and Janet Jackson will have a love child (named Jan of course) and both will end up at the top of thier carrear.

 

[dhtahoe]

No it's at powdercoat

No it's at heat treat

No it's at the welders

No I cut my fingers off

No I'm moving

No wait now I'm coming back with huge money and patents

OMG please make it stop.

 

[seismic]

This descussion is getting f..... up, - even for a Karpiel owner

Well, like the frame, but the man seems odd. It is just too complicated

 

[dhtahoe]

there are a few members of the board who got burned by Jan. It's not friend of a friend of his uncle. You've got to figure that if 2-3 people on a small mtb message board got burned, how many others?

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

He "fooled" everyone once by taking peoples money and not shipping bikes. If people consider him for business again, they are risking him again. It's only fair to warn people.

Example: Brian has a great reputation as a standup guy here on RM. If some one started harping that he was bad to deal with, people would shut the harper down. However, if this happened continually, with more people who've had first had problems, his reputation would be tarnished and people would be less likely to work with him again and probably warn others from working with him

This is what Jan has done. First, he promises dates, never ships. he sends out bikes months late with no compensation to the buyer for the time delay. (btw, it's illegal to accept payment before delivery in most states beyond a deposit. a deposit is not 100% of the cost). This tarnished his rep a bit, then, he sends out frames without heat treating them. Reputation even worse. Then he closes doors no warning, does not return customers money. That alone is 3 strikes. I"m sorry, but you lose.
This little example doesn't even include his distributors, sub-contractors, employees, and riders. He's lost all his credbility. Those associated with him still are just setting up to go down in flames with him.

 

[dropthebreak]

the bikes are great. All thats needed is a partner with more of the business sense to come in and support them properly. maybe im mistaken but i got the sense of this from the Karpiel website.

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

regardless of anyones opinion, the reality is that the riders who own Karpiels are riding a time bomb. If it breaks, it's over. Time for a new ride. "kinda" like i was with the super 8. It is a sinking feeling, especially with such a kick ass frame. you get up after a crash and really look the bike over praying not to find anything broken. It sucks that you buy something and later find yourself unsupported.

maybe risse can start making replacement parts for the ARMY and DISCO.
might be kinda cool.

http://risseracing.com/Products/Bikes/rear.html

 

[4fingeredmonkey]

Here is what the website of Karpiel is supposed to say.

________________________________________________________________________
Dear Friends, Fans, and Foes.
Karpiel has some drawings of what we consider 'cool sh1t' on paper. We've never actually built some of these new models up, BUT, if you own a machine shop, and have some welders in your employ, we will gladly license our patents to you, so you can make us some bikes. Yes, you read that right, we won't come anywhere near the production facility. You just pay us to stay out of the way.
We would do manufacturing ourselves, but nobody will give us credit to get tubing and other supplies, so we'll push it off to you.

Oh yes, don't forget, as part of the licensing agreement, you will have to accept responsibilty for repair and tech support of our current models. We obviously cannot do this either for the same reasons.

If you are willing to throw away cash in this manner, please contact us at 1-800-4DIGITS.

P.S.-Act soon. Our patent attorney who is filing our patents hasn't been paid in 3 years. If we can't get him some cash soon, the patents will be lost, and you will have to watch people who want to ride Karpiels forced to ride bikes from other, lesser manufacturers like: Santa Cruz, Turner, Foes, Intense, Giant, IronHorse, Cannondale, Trek, Fisher, and a whole BUTT-TON of other companies who can pay their bills on time, unlike us.

Thanks for Visiting!!!

 

[trailhacker]

ok let me rephrase.

dont stick your hand on the stove, it is very, very hot! I just saw someone burn themselves.

Don't give your account #'s to the son of the king of some North African kingdom in exile, I've heard this to be a scam. Oh wait, I shouldn't talk negatively because I've never given this guy my account #'s and been ripped of

 

[DLo]

I just want a fuxing bike to ride. I've given up on the rest, including dealing with Jan

It's a shame the man wouldn't let somebody else handle the business side of things. Seems like there are enough people who like their bikes to make it a decent sized company.

 

[OGRipper]

Don't give your account #'s to the son of the king of some North African kingdom in exile, I've heard this to be a scam. Oh wait, I shouldn't talk negatively because I've never given this guy my account #'s and been ripped of

Yeah, saying "don't rely on the things you hear from other people" doesn't help a lot.

The good and bad comments are all coming secondhand, how else can you get a sense of whether you want to deal with someone? Some people defend Jan, some people vilify him, and those with no personal experience can take those comments and form their own opinion.

Plus saying we can't rely on others opinions undermines the value of RM as a resource (as well as the value of the opinion of the person saying it!) Few of us will ever be have first-hand experience with every company in the industry, so we come here to tap the noggins of those with experience with a particular company or product. And before anyone says "don't believe everything you read," give the average Monkey a little credit - we know that not everything here is fact and should be taken with a grain of salt.

In this case, I don't have any personal experience with Jan, and I've only ridden his bikes a couple of times. Based on what I've read, I wouldn't drop a dime on one of his products - there are lots of alternatives without the question marks.

 

[Espen]

Good, straight forward businnessmen and manufacturers dont get this kind of reputation. It's pretty damn simple.

Waiting is ok, lies is not ok.

Non heat treated frames, is this true????

E

 

[biggins]

whos finger got chopped off and how? i ve heard this stuff before but i never heard that

 

[dhtahoe]

Oh man biggins.... I'll give you the short end. This guy uses every excuse in the book to keep people off his back. This time it was the FACT that he did lose some fingers in an accident. He had ALOT of people pissed off, and was going under waaaaaaaay before that. Now he has the wounded duck syndrome(help me help me someone pissed on my broken wing) to get people to think that for some reason it's not his fault. We all know more than he gives us credit for. Right now I'm THE ONLY ONE who has dealt with ANY of his unhappy customers because everybody knows that I was working for him at one time(which he denies,but people know better) so now I get e-mails and PM's EVERY DAY from people asking for my help. I now ride for a new company and really see no reason to help people out(yet I STILL do). I can't do it much longer because of my loyalty to my current sponsor. I WAS just as loyal to Karpiel for SIX YEARS, but then he used me as an excuse waaaaaay too many times. Then would tell he same group of people that I don't work, ride, or represent his company. One week I'm the excuss of the week, then he's has no idea who I am the next. People would be like "WTF last week you said it was my fault something went wrong, and now you don't know who I'm talking about. At one point I had him telling this kid Ian that I had his bike for months. His parents threatened legal action against ME not Yan so I finally had them come to my house and see for themselves that I had no frame. Then he was pissed at me because I would not cover HIS a$$. He just finds new people to fell sorry for him, and now he has a whole new bunch of people feeling sorry for him. They to will get burned for sure. These same people are TRYING to keep me quite with threats because I know too much. The man is a coward and will do and say anything (thru other people) to make sure the money keeps coming in. More than likely so he can skip the country. For once I would like for him to stand up for himself and quite hiding from the people he owes.

Yes that's the short version!!!

 

[Espen]

Nice guy!

E

 

[OGRipper]

Man, it just gets worse every time I hear the stories. Yeah, they're second-hand stories and all, but come on.

In light of all that it's incredible that he's looking for investors. That dude seems destined to sleep with the fishes - at the bottom of Lake Tahoe.

 

[Curb Hucker]

because I know too much.

i think i do too

 

[Rip]

Bad business practices are not acceptable period. The reason why I went for the bike I did was because of the horror stories I have heard here. I took that money I was going to use to buy a Karpiel frame and built one hell of a nice hardtail, needed more than one horror story before I made my decision. I have to deal with a company before who makes or made custom windsheilds for Fords made in the 1930's it took about a year and a threat to file a lawsuit to get the windsheild to come in, it was well packed but came in with a crack down the center of it. The case was marked fragile and the person hauling it was really careful with it. The owner of the place claimed that the crack was due to mishandling during shipping, to say the least I found another company and had the new windsheild and had it installed in a week. I know what it is like to get burned, I just did not want to get burned again.

 

[Orvan]

So can I still order Armageddons?

 

[Jm_]

So can I still order Armageddons?

that depends on how Xtreme you are.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

So who do I contact to order one now?

 

[Acadian]

So who do I contact to order one now?

Contact info HERE :devil:

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Contact info HERE :devil:

ahahaha touchè

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Contact info HERE :devil:

You can be such a bastard :mumble: