[weedkilla]

I'm a veteran racer who can now afford top get pretty much whatever I like to replace my short shocked vp free - and I'm not keen on another short link four bar frame. I just dont think they ever feel the same after the first few months is over. I also didnt tend to get on well with a demo7 I had for a while and decided that I didn't like the short chain stays, so that rules out the yeti 303r.
I've ridden an evil and was blown away, the morewood gives me a woody, the transition is nearly here, but at the Aus nats last weekend I got a quick spin on a 2010 stab and was amazed when I watched closely how well they performed, looking balanced and fast across all parts of the track - no matter who the rider was on board. I was seriously impressed, and by a bike I NEVER thought I would buy.

So the big question is - now that I can afford a porsche, do I want a hyundai? If anyone with some serious riding on a 2010 stab can chime in I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[BMADED]

Get a Nicolai Ion..or is that like a Bugatti?

EDIT: after being on the nico site they have belt drives! How long have people had this?

 

[djjohnr]

II also didnt tend to get on well with a demo7 I had for a while and decided that I didn't like the short chain stays, so that rules out the yeti 303r.

303R has 17.3" chainstays...not exactly long but definitely nowhere near Demo short.

My first DH bike was a 2000 Stab Primo, it was our shop DH bike and it got passed around like a @#$@#. The new ones are much lighter, however the suspension design hasn't changed. The rear end stiffened a lot under braking (which is why they ship them with floating brakes now) and it ran through bearings rather quickly (doesn't look like that's changed - it still uses small bearings).

 

[Iridemtb]

Check out canfield. I got to ride one and was blown away at how well they rode. They have a short chainstay, but also have rearward travel. Also, if your really looking to spend some SERIOUS dough on something unique that supposedly rides very well, look at superco's bike, the silencer. Don't know when they will be out, but those things look pretty rad.

 

[demo 9]

Check out canfield. I got to ride one and was blown away at how well they rode. They have a short chainstay, but also have rearward travel. Also, if your really looking to spend some SERIOUS dough on something unique that supposedly rides very well, look at superco's bike, the silencer. Don't know when they will be out, but those things look pretty rad.

 

[WBC]

In terms of reliability, the new generation of VPP (and prob DW) link bikes have gotten a lot better since they've introduced better seals and angular contact bearings w/ grease zerts.

If you were to buy a top shelf bike that wasn't a short-link 4bar, I think I'd have to be all over that Makulu...or if money really isn't a concern:

 

[weedkilla]

303R has 17.3" chainstays...not exactly long but definitely nowhere near Demo short.

Ooops on my behalf, that may change things......... why is choosing a dh bike like throwing darts at some pictures on the wall and hoping its what you want when you go and point it down some filthy rocky chute?

But my basic premise remains - now that I can afford a porn frame, is it really the best bike?

 

[norbar]

Don't you have a pretty good banshee distributor in Australia? Quite a few guys rode the proto legend out there. Go with the bling, screw hyundai. Superco would be a good idea but from what Jonsey said in the dirt review - you can feel the short cs so you won't probably like it.

 

[thom9719]

If you were blown away by the evil, why not get one of those?

-KT

 

[RMboy]

Get a Nicolai Ion..or is that like a Bugatti?

EDIT: after being on the nico site they have belt drives! How long have people had this?

These have been around for a little while. The newest thing is that you can get a bigger range of sizes now for the rear cassette.

 

[davec113]

If you were blown away by the evil, why not get one of those?

-KT

Not a bad idea, if you buy a bike untested and you don't like it as much as the Evil that would suck.

That said, check out the Trek Session 88 if you can, I'm really happy with mine coming from an Intense Uzzi VPX, which is somewhat similar to a short shocked vpfree. Compared to my VPX, the Session is WAY stiffer, so it corners with a very solid feel...it squats down and rails berms nicely and drifts flat corners predictably. With the Fox 40, it tracks really well too... my VPX went in the general direction I pointed it in comparison. It's more on the lively and poppy side, but the suspension does a good job with big hits and the sus curve is very progressive, but also linear and predictable. The VPX and VPFree had falling rate curves until mid-stroke, then changed directions and ramped up hard to the end, the VPX a bit moreso than the free. The Session feels more natural then the VPX, I just don't notice it working like I did on the VPX. Both frames had dhx5 shocks custom tuned for the bike, the VPX by PUSH, the Session comes with a customized shock standard. The Session is also lighter and pedals way better. If you're not familiar with Trek's sus, it's a single pivot with the pivot on the rear axle for more neutral braking. It's very simple and probably the best implementation of a sp bike yet. Maybe better than Horst link

 

[Horror Business]

Get a Nicolai Ion..or is that like a Bugatti?

EDIT: after being on the nico site they have belt drives! How long have people had this?

I have been dreaming of a belt drive mtn bike for years, this is very exciting!

 

[davec113]

this is very exciting!

no its not

 

[Horror Business]

Are you anti-belt drive?

 

[IH8Rice]

no its not

and why is that?
im sure Woody can give you a few good reasons why he likes them. he's been using it on his Brooklyn for a while now.

 

[weedkilla]

That said, check out the Trek Session 88 if you can, I'm really happy with mine coming from an Intense Uzzi VPX, which is somewhat similar to a short shocked vpfree.

Thanks, I really appreciate that - however giving money to my local trek dealer would make me cry myself to sleep at night!

 

[weedkilla]

If you were blown away by the evil, why not get one of those?

-KT

Because I feel like I am being sucked in by the "coolness factor" like a 14 yr old kid with 800mm bars... Why would I spend significantly more just too have a bike that is "cool" but not nescassarily any better. The evil is undoubtably fantastic - but the tuning thread is already showing it has real world faults (I had a giant DH so I'm not that surprised or worried). I am also a bit of a DW believer and have one of the messiah's xc bikes - just shocked to find a bike at effectively half the price have such similar performance. Has anyone spent enough time on a 2010 stab to make me think I'm wrong?

 

[IH8Rice]

but the tuning thread is already showing it has real world faults

real world faults? what besides a few of us with bad hardware are you talking about?

 

[weedkilla]

That'd be it. No big deal - just enough to remember that its a bike - not the second coming.

 

[cecil]

i have spent 2 seasons on an 08 stab east coast riding, i cant say anything bad it was cheap it goes anywhere i point it with ease. kona does not scrap their design and start from scratch every few years like other bike companys they keep refining what they have. im 220lbs and i beat the crap out of that bike imo if not the stab get the giant i have a friend who loves his

btw i rode a sunday team for 2 seasons, and a judge for one season

 

[davec113]

Are you anti-belt drive?

no, just kidding. I've seen belt drives on single speeds more frequently, but not on fs bikes yet.

 

[FullMonty]

If you were to follow your car analogy, the Kona would be a Porsche, since the boys in Stuttgart have been hammering away at refining the 911 for a zillion years.

I'll be riding a Stab Deluxe when they're available. February some time.

 

[Straya]

no, just kidding. I've seen belt drives on single speeds more frequently, but not on fs bikes yet.

I could swear I've seen a fs gearbox bike with a chain from the cranks to the gearbox and a belt from the box to the rear hub. Can't find a pic for the life of me though.

Edit, not what I was looking for but still, they do exist

 

[supercow]

Be a connoisseur my friend, join the club and get more wood

Does Ground Coffee taste better than Instant?
Does a good old red wine taste better than a cheapo bottle?

You are now a man who likes the better things in life, ride the Porche, don't even glance at the Hyundai!

 

[4130biker]

Anyone else have pics/ info on the stab? I've always been interested in them despite everyone's complaining about how "bad" they are.

 

[Huck Banzai]

Are you anti-belt drive?

Rigid belt drive SS fix 29er's r00l!

 

[IH8Rice]

If you were to follow your car analogy, the Kona would be a Porsche, since the boys in Stuttgart have been hammering away at refining the 911 for a zillion years.

Kona=Porsche 911?
pass that blunt over this way.

 

[norbar]

Kona=Porsche 911?
pass that blunt over this way.

Well a beatle is a beatle

 

[bizutch]

Do like Steve Peat. Get on a basic frame that is lightened like piss and dump all your money into custom tuned fork & shocks. Then enjoy throwing it around like it's a bmx cruiser.

 

[IH8Rice]

Well a beatle is a beatle

touche

 

[stinky6]

Remember man its the rider not the bike. If your bike is setup properly it should rip. With todays DH bikes they are on the good, better, best scale; not the bad, okay, pretty good scale. Try and test ride some stuff first, maybe the Kona will feel the best to you maybe something you haven't even considered will be great.

I ride a Rotec RL-9 and would recomend trying to take a spin on one if you can.

 

[Pebble]

The January issue of AMB gave it a pretty good score, they said somewhere in there it was way above their expectations having ridden quite a few Konas before, so I guess whatever minor changes Kona has made for the year are certainly better.
Yeah yeah I know you can't just go off magazine reviews though, but we all still read them.

If you think it's the bike you want then go for it, besides why would you buy a porche just to take it into the bush and get it scratched up? Hmm but on the other hand LandCruisers which are built for the job don't come cheap either...you sure you're looking at Porches?

Besides if you want bling I'm sure buying the Kona will leave you lots of left over money to get some nice ano parts and colour matching wheels for it, or better forks whatever, maybe even a riding holiday to NZ or something?

Money is not issue so I'm sure you'll end up with whatever bike will make you happy, that could be some hugely expensive one or it could be the Kona, obviously you're the only one who knows which will suit your personality....you know are you the kind of person that just wants to get out and ride and not worry about scratching the $8k paintwork? Or perhaps it wouldn't bother you that the $8k bike will get all scratched up or possibly dinted because it was after all brought to be ridden? Lol but then again it always matters until you get that first scratch!!!

 

[William42]

A couple things. My roommate is about to pick up a 2010 stab delux. I'm looking at the geo right now, the stab supreme and stab delux have different listed geometry, despite similarly specced forks (boxxer race vs boxxer WC), wheels/tires. Is it just down to headset?

Either way: a 63.9HA, 13.1 BB height, and 17.6CS, and 47.6inch WB for the large seem like pretty good numbers to me, its stocked with a pretty damn good spec, its a tapered HT, it has a floating brake for those of you who hate how much squat it has. Looks like it has a well placed pivot too.

I say buy that sh1t, and if you have to spend more money, put some towards some of the thousands of good charities out there. Donate money to earthquake victims, to clean drinking water, theres plenty out there. Hell even if its putting a grand towards local grom rippers for bike upgrades or cheap used bikes to get somebody into the sport.

I'll post up some thoughts once he has his, but it'll probably be a week or two.

 

[davec113]

The charts for the deluxe and supreme have either 888 or Boxxer a-to-c heights. Way low bb height and long wb in the slack setting tho.

It is a good value, for sure. My friend has an '06 and rips on it, the geo of the newer one is different, but the bikes are pretty similar. It's not the last word in sus design or rear end stiffness, but it's a pretty solid bike with a lifetime frame warranty and the pivot is in a good location. Only issue is it's hard to get good sus performace and good pedaling simultaneously.

 

[Kevin]

Just remember that most of the frames today are pretty much top notch.
In the end its all about personal preference so nobody here can give you advise on what bike you should get.
Just try and ride some different bikes and see what fits you best.
Thats the only way to go...

 

[zebrahum]

You're stoked on the Evil so get it. I can understand if you were able to really get a good run in on the Stab, but it seems like your fascination is based on watching the bike handle well, not actually feeling it respond while punishing it down a trail yourself. Those guys at nationals can make any bike look fast, it's all about what you want to ride. If you like the Evil, get it, you've got Porche money! If you hate it or find something you like better, then ditch the Evil and get one of those.

 

[weedkilla]

Thanks everyone who posted having some experience with the kona, seems my fascination with them wont go away so I'll get on one soon. Decided that I will just try it and if I change my mind it'll be evil time!

 

[cecil]

Just remember that most of the frames today are pretty much top notch.
In the end its all about personal preference so nobody here can give you advise on what bike you should get.
Just try and ride some different bikes and see what fits you best.
Thats the only way to go...

i totally agree, i have liked all the bikes i have owned, BUT the price of the stab allowed me to buy a 6" freeride bike also 2 decent bikes for the price of one

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Buy Karpiel!

 

[al-irl]

im sure the kona will rip. The way i see it is that if you get the kona your still gonna want the more bling bike. You'll be in the pits and uplift queues eying up the likes of the evils, morewoods, intenses. So if you can afford one just get one. The likes of the stabs and glorys etc are all sweet bikes and will certainly perform good enough for any of us weekend warriors. I think for most people bikes aren't usually bought with purely wallet related way of thinking. Most of the time you need to have lusted after the bike a bit while flicking through a bike mag or while checkout out builds on internerd forms. So if you can afford it go and treat yourself.