[narlus]

looking to build up a "trail" bike (new addition to the lexicon, not xc and not freeride; i suppose a couple of years ago this would be freeride). by that i mean ~5" rear travel, and a 5" fork. ideally i'd like it to weigh under 30# w/o having to go crazy w/ parts spec. i'd like something which can tackle the typical new england trails, and i won't be dropping on it (i've got other bikes for that). ideally it would have a head angle of about 69-70 (i prefer a bit slacker than the std 71), and adjustable rear travel. air shocks don't frighten me as much as they used to (Risse Genesis, anyone?). the rear of the bike should be able to squeeze in a decent sized tire and still have mud clearance (~2.2" tire on a non-racing rim).

the cheaper alternatives which immediately come to mind are the Giant VT, Specialized Enduro, and Iron Horse Hollowpoint.

does anyone have direct comparison experience between these 3 frames? have i missed any obvious ones? i don't want a single pivot (eg, no heckler) because i've done that already, and nothing from the trek family.

ideally i'd like to get a frame and fork, and build it from there...14+ years of biking has formed certain parts preferences.

while i'm on the subject, i've not rejected the boutique spectrum of things either, and am considering the turner 5 spot, foes fxr, yeti 575, and possibly the ventana x-5. problem w/ these are finding a bike to demo is nearly impossible, and they leave a large hole in the wallet (as well as potentially waiting for a frame). i guess the titus quasi-moto could be thrown into this ring as well.

 

[MMcG]

The Hollowpoint is just a shade under 5" of travel - but that shouldn't matter much at all. I bet it'll still be hard to even find one of those to test ride as well - at least there aren't many shops that I'm aware of in CT that carry the true IH mountain bikes.

perhaps things are different in MA though.

Some of the boutique frames you mentioned in your list are still basicaly single pivots btw (Foes, Yeti (basically), Even the X-5 in a sense)

IAB has a Quasi-Moto lite where he can get either 4.5 or almost 6 inches of travel and I think that bike is killer.

 

[Trond]

My Saber weights 31.5 lbs (14.3kg), but that's with fairly heavy pedals/BB/Cassette, and a spring based shock. I am sure I could shave 2lbs without problems if needed. It rides very, very light and at the same time feels extremely stable.

Edit: I also ride 7" Hope M4 brakes, could easily save 300gr on brakes. Truvativ Style SL Cranks would save 150gr over the prodigy ones.

 

[jncarpenter]

.......my vote goes to...(FYI....just under 30 lbs)

 

[Skookum]

i was riding a Giant VT

Great trail ride bike but it is way slacked out. It's a way better descender and begs to be abused. But it really doesn't climb well and it's a little on the piggish side. Plus i had bearing and bushing issues a little too quick for my liking.

i'm really diggin my new Enduro Expert.

The adjustible travel on the Float RLC works great. Along with the talas you can dial in the bike to do anything. On concrete lock out, platform lock out so it actually works, doesn't pogo you like old ones that merely maxxed the rebound. Singletrack climbing shorten the travel with a click in the back and about 5 or 6 clicks up front (around 90+mm), and mt. goat up any climb, then just dial it back to normal for any mostly flat or downhill run.

I've jumped with it on some small ones and it does ok, i always thought the old FSR's felt long and flexy, i don't get that with this bike. The pivot points have new cap deals to keep them from getting scrogged. Minimal brake jack from the good ole fashuned horst linkage, and again it pedals really really REALLY nice now with a platform shock.

i had fun on my VT but realized i didn't need the help on the descents like i do on my climbs.

oh and one last thing, the only thing i can really say is a negative on the enduro is the low bb heighth, i've been spoiled with the Bullit and VT now i gotta pay attention to avoid pedal skip again.

 

[narlus]

skookum, thanks for the post! excellent content.

anyone have iron horse HP stories to share? stosh? -bb- ? i know you people are out there somewhere...

btw IAB, how do you have yr quasi configured? coil shock? how's it climb?

 

[FlipSide]

A friend of mine just got his Intense 5.5. It's a very nice bike. If you have the $$$, it may very well be one of the best bike available for what you're looking for.

If I was in the market for a new trailbike and if I had the cash...I'd have a hard time not getting a 5.5

 

[MMcG]

Originally posted by narlus
skookum, thanks for the post! excellent content.

anyone have iron horse HP stories to share? stosh? -bb- ? i know you people are out there somewhere...

btw IAB, how do you have yr quasi configured? coil shock? how's it climb?

Narlus - I just sent you an email about future plans for a certain east coast bike company that I think will interest you.

Also, go to MTBR forums and under the IH forum there is a post by a guy by the name of FAenatic or something like that where he posts detailed photos of the improvements IH made to the Hollowpoint from 2003 to 2004.

 

[JRogers]

Just a note that the VT is a linkage activated single pivot, which you said you didn't want (the linkage may qualify it, though).

After a while of shopping around, I ended up getting a VT because I got the frame for like 600 bucks. Also, I've always had a "thing" for that frame and just liked the looks. However, there's a good chance I would've gotten an Enduro if I didn't get that price on the Giant. I've ridden old Hecklers, Trek Liquids, Jekylls, Superlights, Blurs and maybe a few others so that's what I am comparing to. On a side note, the Jekyll might also be a good option. Some people don't like them but I've found them to ride really nicely and be durable, plush and all around good. The Lefty is actually a pretty decent fork and the Max TPC+ version is really nice. I love the feel and quality of that fork.

Hmmm...I heard the VT was slack but I honestly don't get that feeling while I'm on the bike. Could be that I am using a fairly short fork, a TALAS RLC. I also feel like the bike climbs really well for its travel and weight. I check the shock visually while climbing and it doesn't move at all unless I really force it to. However, I have not ridden it on long, sustained climbs (more than 30 minutes of climbing at once). Of course, consider that the only MTB I had for the 2 years before this was a Bullit (heavier, more travel, softer setup, shorter cockpit and stem) and I now also ride a Tomac 204. The VT handles really well and is a good, stable descender and an at least average climber. I feel like I can really motor along fast flats with the bike- just put it in the big ring and crank away. I also feel that with a shorter stem and lower seat I could race the bike in a more tame MTX or DS or a non-tech DH. I might actually do that next season. It might just be the shock (or the fact I have not set it up well) or my main basis for comparison but it feels like it has less travel than it actually does. The 2 settings are 5.7" and 5". Haven't really used the 5" much but the 5.7" doesn't feel like almost 6 inches. Not that this is an entirely bad thing- gives the bike a racier feel to me and is what I was looking for: a trail bike that contrasts with my DH bike. Also, the geometry is stable. The suspension can't take everything but the angles and lengths make for a stable and surprise free ride that is a capable descender.

I made sure I picked parts that were light so I could get a good weight. The frame is a bit heavier than some of its counterparts but its by no means bad. My total bike weight is probably somewhere in the 20s with SRAM X.9/X.0, XT, Mavic XM819, Hope M4s, Hadley, Protapers and a TALAS. Certainly does not feel heavy. Easy to throw around in the air.

Overall, I really like the bike, especially the fit. On lots of bikes I feel like I am too far over the front and it handles funky as a result. Not here. I did not have any issues on the build up and the only problem I had was kind of a fluke: a linkage bolt popped out of one side and I rode with it for a bit, bending links and bolts all over. Well, it only cost me 20 bones to fix so it wasn't too bad, just a little aggrivating to walk home. I hear Giant warranty and CS is top notch but my shop had some spare parts so I just bummed them off of 'em.

 

[Instigator]

Just a hair over 26 lbs. And it is my favorite trail bike of all time! I am bias because I own it Most frames nowdays are well built and will do what you want, so what ever you decide on will still be a quality ride.

 

[kissthepink]

Specialized Enduro.
I've got an S-works, it weighs 26 lbs.
5" front and rear. Claws it's way up climbs in or out of the saddle.
Suspension always works, brakes on or off. No flex in the back.
We have been riding the snot out of 4 of them since last spring.
Moab, Fruita, New England, shuttle/ski lift assisted runs, XC, light Freeride, 40 mile road rides with slicks, Personal best lap times at 24 hours of Moab last year for one of my guides. The bike can truly do anything you can. Super plush, goes where you want it to.
Oh yeah, its also Adjustable.
You want 80/100mm front and rear? OK.
You want 125/130mm front and rear? OK.
You want a hard tail? OK.
You want fully rigid? OK.
Head angle 70.5 or 69.5
Great bike.

 

[MMcG]

Originally posted by kissthepink
Specialized Enduro.
I've got an S-works, it weighs 26 lbs.
5" front and rear. Claws it's way up climbs in or out of the saddle.
Suspension always works, brakes on or off. No flex in the back.
We have been riding the snot out of 4 of them since last spring.
Moab, Fruita, New England, shuttle/ski lift assisted runs, XC, light Freeride, 40 mile road rides with slicks, Personal best lap times at 24 hours of Moab last year for one of my guides. The bike can truly do anything you can. Super plush, goes where you want it to.
Oh yeah, its also Adjustable.
You want 80/100mm front and rear? OK.
You want 125/130mm front and rear? OK.
You want a hard tail? OK.
You want fully rigid? OK.
Head angle 70.5 or 69.5
Great bike.

That's one stealthy lookin machine - me likey.

What wheelset/spokes are on your bike? They look unique.

 

[jacksonpt]

Originally posted by MMcG
What wheelset/spokes are on your bike? They look unique.

It's a spinergy wheelset, probably the Xyclone. Fiber spokes. Same/similar to what Instigator is running on his 575. Strong and light.

 

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by narlus

btw IAB, how do you have yr quasi configured? coil shock? how's it climb?

I have it set at the 5.9" travel (I can make one more adjustment if I decide to DH with it). Vanilla w/Propedal shock and Vanilla 125 RLC up front. It climbs great! I am still getting used to the new fork. Sometimes my front tire comes off the ground on steep climbs, but that's a technique issue, not a bike issue. You said you won't be dropping on it, but mine handles the 5-6 footers just fine if you decide to try one on a ride. Mine weighs 31lbs, but could save a few pounds with air suspension. For a do-it-all bike, I could not be happier.

 

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by Instigator
Just a hair over 26 lbs. And it is my favorite trail bike of all time! I am bias because I own it Most frames nowdays are well built and will do what you want, so what ever you decide on will still be a quality ride.

Damn that's sexy.

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by Skookum
i was riding a Giant VT

Great trail ride bike but it is way slacked out. It's a way better descender and begs to be abused. But it really doesn't climb well and it's a little on the piggish side. Plus i had bearing and bushing issues a little too quick for my liking.

i'm really diggin my new Enduro Expert.

The adjustible travel on the Float RLC works great. Along with the talas you can dial in the bike to do anything. On concrete lock out, platform lock out so it actually works, doesn't pogo you like old ones that merely maxxed the rebound. Singletrack climbing shorten the travel with a click in the back and about 5 or 6 clicks up front (around 90+mm), and mt. goat up any climb, then just dial it back to normal for any mostly flat or downhill run.

I've jumped with it on some small ones and it does ok, i always thought the old FSR's felt long and flexy, i don't get that with this bike. The pivot points have new cap deals to keep them from getting scrogged. Minimal brake jack from the good ole fashuned horst linkage, and again it pedals really really REALLY nice now with a platform shock.

i had fun on my VT but realized i didn't need the help on the descents like i do on my climbs.

oh and one last thing, the only thing i can really say is a negative on the enduro is the low bb heighth, i've been spoiled with the Bullit and VT now i gotta pay attention to avoid pedal skip again.

Skookum beat me to it.

The VT is a KILLER descender. It feels like a very light version of the Giant DH bikes. Not all that hot in the climbing dept. though.

The more I ride my enduro the more I love it. Reach down and click the lockout and it will eat up a non-tech fire road climb in no time. Put the shock in its 3.5" setting and it will handle more tech climbs with aplomb. Click it into long travel and descend like nobodys business. The fame is plenty tough. The group of people I ride with have done stuff on them that they have no business doing and they just keep on rockin.

I'd like a slightly shorter stem on mine, and a fox fork as the Psylo is not up to my standards (spoiled by the Z-1 QR-20 I had on my Joker). It looks like next years S-Works Enduro will be available with a special version of the "Brain" shock which is tuned SPV/open vs. the Epic's Lockout/open tuning or with a Pro-pedal version of this years shock. Should be sick.

IMO the Enduro is the best Trail-Bike bike Ive had.
(RM Element, Giant NRS, JOKER)

 

[MMcG]

Originally posted by Damn True
Skookum beat me to it.

The VT is a KILLER descender. It feels like a very light version of the Giant DH bikes. Not all that hot in the climbing dept. though.

The more I ride my enduro the more I love it. Reach down and click the lockout and it will eat up a non-tech fire road climb in no time. Put the shock in its 3.5" setting and it will handle more tech climbs with aplomb. Click it into long travel and descend like nobodys business. The fame is plenty tough. The group of people I ride with have done stuff on them that they have no business doing and they just keep on rockin.

I'd like a slightly shorter stem on mine, and a fox fork as the Psylo is not up to my standards (spoiled by the Z-1 QR-20 I had on my Joker). It looks like next years S-Works Enduro will be available with a special version of the "Brain" shock which is tuned SPV/open vs. the Epic's Lockout/open tuning or with a Pro-pedal version of this years shock. Should be sick.

IMO the Enduro is the best Trail-Bike bike Ive had.
(RM Element, Giant NRS, JOKER)

That S works enduro is already available - I saw one over the weekend completely decked out bling bling styleee -----super sweet looking - also super expensive.

 

[Damn True]

....and it's shiny.

....add a Heim 3-Guide and you are ready to rock.

 

[Skookum]

bling blang sha-POW!!!!

 

[MMcG]

Originally posted by Damn True
....and it's shiny.

....add a Heim 3-Guide and you are ready to rock.

Nice bike and nice shrubbery!

 

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by Skookum
bling blang sha-POW!!!!

Hey, what happened to your shock condom?

 

[narlus]

Evil DRS all the way baby! no big ring action out in new england.

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by narlus
Evil DRS all the way baby! no big ring action out in new england.

Id rethink that. The Enduro is such a Swiss Army Knife of a bike that you will be riding it TO the trailhead, commuting, etc. on it. The Heim 3-Guide allows that + the chain retention for the rough stuff.

More nice shrubbery (Lupin in this case)

 

[Damn True]

Damn, forgot the pic.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Originally posted by FlipSide
If I was in the market for a new trailbike and if I had the cash...I'd have a hard time not getting a 5.5

I'll second that on the 5.5.

 

[Skookum]

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
Hey, what happened to your shock condom?

Keep it on for the wet and wild trails only.

 

[Skookum]

Originally posted by Andyman_1970
I'll second that on the 5.5.

i would third that, but i'm waiting for
1 me to be rich
2 Santa Cruz to issue their version

Originally posted by Damn True
The Enduro is such a Swiss Army Knife of a bike

That's an accurate description.

 

[kissthepink]

Hey D True,
check out the stem on my bike. 45mm thomson.
I can pretty much roll down anything that's rollable, it is so easy to get off the back. The steering is a bit quick, but once you get used to it, it's telepathic, and super easy to lift the front end.
Bend a little at the waist for climbs, and no worries.

The spinergies Rock. Honestly. I originally got them as race wheels for 24 hour races, hoping to save some serious juice by having the lightest disk brake wheels you can get. But I threw them on my bike for fun, and haven't taken them off.
7 months of HARD riding in techy new england terrain, and I haven't had to touch them.
The spokes are INCREDIBLY strong. 2 weeks ago, I was cruising along at about 10-15 MPH, and a stick got thrown into my rear wheel, all the way through, so that the stick wedged between the spokes and the seat stays. the wheel stopped instantly, skidding along the trail for a good 20 feet. a regular wheel would have exploded, breaking at least a handfull of spokes. The spinergy not only didn't break a spoke, the wheel stayed perfectly true.
The guy riding behind me saw the whole thing, and couldn't believe it.

 

[Curiouscaptian01]

Originally posted by kissthepink
Specialized Enduro.
I've got an S-works, it weighs 26 lbs.
5" front and rear. Claws it's way up climbs in or out of the saddle.
Suspension always works, brakes on or off. No flex in the back.
We have been riding the snot out of 4 of them since last spring.
Moab, Fruita, New England, shuttle/ski lift assisted runs, XC, light Freeride, 40 mile road rides with slicks, Personal best lap times at 24 hours of Moab last year for one of my guides. The bike can truly do anything you can. Super plush, goes where you want it to.
Oh yeah, its also Adjustable.
You want 80/100mm front and rear? OK.
You want 125/130mm front and rear? OK.
You want a hard tail? OK.
You want fully rigid? OK.
Head angle 70.5 or 69.5
Great bike.

I second the enduro, it can handle more than it is given credit for too.

 

[MMcG]

Originally posted by kissthepink
Hey D True,
check out the stem on my bike. 45mm thomson.
I can pretty much roll down anything that's rollable, it is so easy to get off the back. The steering is a bit quick, but once you get used to it, it's telepathic, and super easy to lift the front end.
Bend a little at the waist for climbs, and no worries.

I was going to ask you about your stem - it seems really short for that type of bike. It really doesn't affect you much when you climb with it though and it doesn't make your steering too twitchy??

I'd love to hear more as to why you went that short on that type of bike. Thanks!

Mark

 

[JRogers]

Originally posted by narlus
Evil DRS all the way baby! no big ring action out in new england.

I dunno. I am not in the best shape but with a reasonable weight (sub 30) bike with XC (up to 2.3) tires, I think you really need a big ring. I usually run small gears but find the big ring to be essential for quite a bit. Certainly not worth getting rid of for me.

 

[-BB-]

Originally posted by narlus
skookum, thanks for the post! excellent content.

anyone have iron horse HP stories to share? stosh? -bb- ? i know you people are out there somewhere...

btw IAB, how do you have yr quasi configured? coil shock? how's it climb?

The only stories I have are ones about long epic rides, beautiful scenery, and rippin singletrack.

 

[narlus]

i'd rather have the bb clearance for rocks and logs. aside from fireroad descents or road stretches, i've never needed a big ring.

 

[kissthepink]

MMcG
- I'm Short.

Actually, I've got short legs. I'm 5' 6", and have a 29" inseam,
so I fit a Medium frame, or an 18" frame. I like to have a roomy cockpit, so that I can stay centered on the bike for climbing as well as descending. But I like to be able to get off the back of the bike for technical descending, so I started using a short stem and grew to love the instantaneous steering and ease of front wheel lifts.
The steering is pretty quick, but now when I get on a bike with a regular or long stem, it feels like a boat tiller. Big, fat, and slow.
As far as climbing goes, I've found that I just need to bend at the waist a bit more.
I can't say enough about how stable it is for scary steep descents. It's almost impossible to endo on it, I can easily touch my nose to the nose of my saddle.

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by kissthepink
MMcG
- I'm Short.

I can easily touch my nose to the nose of my saddle.

Um....that paints quite a mental picture.......I'll take your word for it, no need to post proof.

Must smell just super.

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by narlus
i'd rather have the bb clearance for rocks and logs. aside from fireroad descents or road stretches, i've never needed a big ring.

Heim also has a bashguard that works with 3-ring setups.

http://www.montaramtb.com/Products/Unibash/bash.html

 

[jncarpenter]

Originally posted by narlus
i'd rather have the bb clearance for rocks and logs. aside from fireroad descents or road stretches, i've never needed a big ring.

.........W3RD!...

 

[Damn True]

Ahh yer right. We dont have rocks and stuff out here. It' all flat. We just ride fire-roads.

It's a whole different deal. I mean you guys in NE have such huge mountains and all.....and poor us out here with our piddlin little Sierra Nevada range and Coast Range.

 

[dhmtbj]

If I had the money to buy a trailbike right now it would most definitely be a hollowpoint. No personal experience but the people I know who have them love them and we all know weagle is a genious when it comes to these things!!

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by dhmtbj
If I had the money to buy a trailbike right now it would most definitely be a hollowpoint. No personal experience but the people I know who have them love them and we all know weagle is a genious when it comes to these things!!

Hey, I like Dave too, but that is an absolutely RUBISH statement.