[davetrump]

I'm stocked to see that you guys are going "big" but are they worth the massive hype everyone is putting on them? Or don't the video's capture the pure size of the jumps? But to me 50 foot isnt too crazy especially since they pretty much in a rhythm section on the Pro mens course, those guys hit stuff that big all day. I've seen our(South African) youth men national champion style 50 footers, I'm not trying to take anything away from your Pros, I'm just argueing that those jumps should be there.

Again.... The riders were pumped and were styling it up all weekend. Spectators enjoyed the show and eveyone enjoyed seeing and eiding something besides the same old tired tracks.

The only hype, hate, issue seems to from a bunch of people who were not there annd are just creating the un needed hate/drama

Hands down the best national in 10 years.... Thanks to the sol vista crew (don't for a second thinks usac gave two ****s or did anything)... It is good to see a promter that "gets it" and has a vision.

Would be cool if more races followed their example so we woul get somthing othr than the same single track trails through the woods for tracks that we have been on for the last 10 years in the US... While every other country (including canada) has stepped it up

there was way more to the sol vista track than these three jumps, though if you read online one would think that was the only thing on the track.

it had a good mix of rocky tech sections, some big jumps, and the bottom section of small jumps, big hip jumps, berms, flat loose corners and high speed was awesome. they did a great job to get a lot of variety into the limited vertical they had to work with. i would rather ride a good short course any day over a crap 3 or 4 minute course that is the same top to bottom.

**edit: excuse spelling, this is from my phone while bored and sitting in the airport on my way home

 

[ThePriceSeliger]

I heard the race announcer say something about the heli not being for life flight, but I could be wrong. Awesome race all in all, the course was alot of fun despite what the eriders were on about.

Yeah he just said that when it took off so people wouldn't ask questions.

Amazing weekend, hands down the best event I have attended so far.

 

[slyfink]

looking forward to vids... anyone? anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

 

[ph4se_1]

anyone know if gwin is on the clips full time now? he rode them at fort william and it looks like he was on them here too?

 

[jonKranked]

Would be cool if more races followed their example so we woul get somthing othr than the same single track trails through the woods for tracks that we have been on for the last 10 years in the US... While every other country (including canada) has stepped it up

Dave, you summed it up very well, but what I quoted is something I really wanted to touch on.


One reason I suspect the US isn't producing many World Cup caliber racers, is because we're not racing on World Cup caliber tracks.

 

[MasterofGroms]

werent you guys heading out there in like a 100' camper?

Yes, the motorhome was filled with kid's from Lees Mcrae college along with a couple of other guy's. Logan flew out there with the Team America guys and as I mentioned before Neko opted for the GES race.

 

[SylentK]

Talked to Jonsey from Dirt mag. We tried to talk him out of his planned Moab trip (in July/Aug?!?!? Bring lots of water!) and just ride the lifts around CO. Then I think we scared him talking about the techie bits of lower Porkys.

 

[bizutch]

Dave, you summed it up very well, but what I quoted is something I really wanted to touch on.


One reason I suspect the US isn't producing many World Cup caliber racers, is because we're not racing on World Cup caliber tracks.

Canberra, Sea Otter, Willengen, South Africa....hardly "World Cup caliber" tracks. Bottom line is that the guys who win World Cups are just winners period. Most British tracks are miniature poop shoots and sheep pastures. Craig Woodhead described their tracks to me in Australia and none of them are World Cup style...and usually bone dry....yet Aussies kill it in mud?

It's the fierceness of the competitors and their desire to make it their job for a very long time, not the tracks.

 

[Big J]

Craig Jeffers and I made the journey from Chicago and had a great time. The Cat 1 track was challenging and most important FUN, props to the SolVista crew. Both of us were mending previous shoulder injuries so we were unable to boost everything and are really bummed about that but look forward to hitting up everything on next year's track. I’m not sure what this web babble is about I guess we were to busy riding and enjoying the venue, we’ll be back next year!

Also, thanks again to John and the rest of the SRAM crew for taking care of us!

J

 

[IH8Rice]

Yes, the motorhome was filled with kid's from Lees Mcrae college along with a couple of other guy's. Logan flew out there with the Team America guys and as I mentioned before Neko opted for the GES race.

i gotcha.

i havent seen you guys around Reading since the Duryea riding in April

 

[profro]

Canberra, Sea Otter, Willengen, South Africa....hardly "World Cup caliber" tracks. Bottom line is that the guys who win World Cups are just winners period. Most British tracks are miniature poop shoots and sheep pastures. Craig Woodhead described their tracks to me in Australia and none of them are World Cup style...and usually bone dry....yet Aussies kill it in mud?

It's the fierceness of the competitors and their desire to make it their job for a very long time, not the tracks.

I hate to say it, but I agree with Butch on this one. However killer tracks can't hurt anyone. Well maybe physically hurt, you know what I mean.

 

[doc gravity]

I heard the race announcer say something about the heli not being for life flight, but I could be wrong. Awesome race all in all, the course was alot of fun despite what the eriders were on about.

Event Medical Staff (which is the Sol Vista bike park medics with some additional volunteers) did a great job! The helicopter was staged there for 2 days with no flights (there were 3 at last years G3, counting the unhelmeted spectator versus fence-post). It did seem like there were a lot of slings and crutches by the end of the weekend, but it wasn't because of the menage a trois jumps.

 

[Pslide]

One reason I suspect the US isn't producing many World Cup caliber racers, is because we're not racing on World Cup caliber tracks.

I'd say for the last 10 years America has suffered from lack of organized downhill racing at all levels, lack of American racing heros at the top of the leader board, and general lack of stoke.

But I can see all that changing...thanks to top events like this one!

 

[jonKranked]

Canberra, Sea Otter, Willengen, South Africa....hardly "World Cup caliber" tracks. Bottom line is that the guys who win World Cups are just winners period. Most British tracks are miniature poop shoots and sheep pastures. Craig Woodhead described their tracks to me in Australia and none of them are World Cup style...and usually bone dry....yet Aussies kill it in mud?

It's the fierceness of the competitors and their desire to make it their job for a very long time, not the tracks.

I hate to say it, but I agree with Butch on this one. However killer tracks can't hurt anyone. Well maybe physically hurt, you know what I mean.

Oh I don't disagree with Bizutch; he makes a very valid point. Talent CAN and DOES come from anywhere. But talent alone does not make a good racer.

The point I was trying to convey is that its not exactly an advantage to be competitive at the highest level of racing (the WC) on some of the hardest tracks, if you've only ever competed on tracks that are medium level of difficulty (by comparison). Sorry if I wasn't clear on it.

 

[stiksandstones]

One reason I suspect the US isn't producing many World Cup caliber racers, is because we're not racing on World Cup caliber tracks.

I know you said 'one reason' and eluding to this being just a piece of the puzzle, but I will say the years america was kicking ass in DH and 4X, was probably the worst era for tracks, race organization, etc....sure there was more money involved, but don't be fooled by how crap-tastic things were in the states race-wise.

Let's face it, the americans of old that dominated and/or were competitive worldwide were a much more hungrier, dedicated group of athletes...they wanted to win or be in the mix at all costs, didn't really care to be the cool bros on some website, get on all the bro-vids, hang out in the pits all day shootin the sh1t....they all trained hard, lived and breathed wanting to win.

 

[Sandwich]

I'm sorry but I find it difficult and/or impossible to believe that the American lack of dominance is any significant effect of lack of difficult trails. We're surrounded by a variety of riding areas that feature the super long (whiteface) steep (plattekill) rocky (diablo) and that's not even getting out west.

I think Stik has it right that American riders lack the commitment and dedication to perform at the highest level. On top of that, we live in a country which doesn't outwardly support cycling on any level, whereas many or all of the dominant riders from the 90s came from a background of BMX and on some levels, road, and many of the euros still do. If you look at the Sunn team of the late 90s/early 2000s, virtually all of them were BMX phenoms (anne-caro, Nico, Cedric).

In a few years you'll probably start seeing the Tiger Woos and Williams sisters of the US MTB world...people who have a genetic gift but are bred and raised to perform at the highest level in their individual sport...I think that Neko guy seems to fit the mold pretty well. Give him 5 years and watch him go for the tops.

 

[jonKranked]

I know you said 'one reason' and eluding to this being just a piece of the puzzle, but I will say the years america was kicking ass in DH and 4X, was probably the worst era for tracks, race organization, etc....sure there was more money involved, but don't be fooled by how crap-tastic things were in the states race-wise.

Was this an issue limited only to US racing, or was it status quo for mtb racing internationally as well?

Let's face it, the americans of old that dominated and/or were competitive worldwide were a much more hungrier, dedicated group of athletes...they wanted to win or be in the mix at all costs, didn't really care to be the cool bros on some website, get on all the bro-vids, hang out in the pits all day shootin the sh1t....they all trained hard, lived and breathed wanting to win.

I'm just gonna throw this out there, and maybe, just maybe, my tin foil hat is on a little bit too tight right now, but perhaps some of it has to do with the rise of reality tv? Everyone wants to be a superstar now, so they go where they can do that. There's not much money in racing, and what glory exists is pretty much limited to our own realm. A lot of people want the easy way to the top, and that more or less doesn't exist in cycling.

 

[jonKranked]

I'm sorry but I find it difficult and/or impossible to believe that the American lack of dominance is any significant effect of lack of difficult trails. We're surrounded by a variety of riding areas that feature the super long (whiteface) steep (plattekill) rocky (diablo) and that's not even getting out west.

Been to platty yet this year? The parking lot has been pretty empty, even on race weekends (especially compared to what it used to be like).

I think Stik has it right that American riders lack the commitment and dedication to perform at the highest level. On top of that, we live in a country which doesn't outwardly support cycling on any level, whereas many or all of the dominant riders from the 90s came from a background of BMX and on some levels, road, and many of the euros still do. If you look at the Sunn team of the late 90s/early 2000s, virtually all of them were BMX phenoms (anne-caro, Nico, Cedric).

I agree, and as Stik-man pointed out (and I had explicitly stated) that its only one reason, and part of a much bigger puzzle. I wasn't trying to imply that it was the largest piece, of even a substantial piece, just a piece.

In a few years you'll probably start seeing the Tiger Woos and Williams sisters of the US MTB world...people who have a genetic gift but are bred and raised to perform at the highest level in their individual sport...I think that Neko guy seems to fit the mold pretty well. Give him 5 years and watch him go for the tops.

There's been a few events where Neko has posted up good results against some big names. He was 17th in Pro at the US Open, which is a great results considering who the competition was. Kid's def a phenom, and I've heard his brother is just as fast. Right now the only thing holding him back is his age. By the time he's old enough to stop competing in the Jr class, he'll definitely be a contender (not that he already isn't).

 

[Sandwich]

Yeah, platty was pretty empty two weeks ago but it was actually better than a year ago around this time. I think there was one or two other people on the mountain besides myself that year. I couldn't make last weekend since I had a wedding to attend to...although I should have. Not sure what that has to do with this current derailment though.

While I agree that lack of discipline is more of a piece of the puzzle than the only part, I still just don't believe lack of terrain is holding anybody back. I had heard some of the pros saying the trails at diablo were rockier than anything they usually ride on the WC.

Also, to further derail this thread, but being kind of on-topic to the other off-topic topic, more and more riders and therefore mountains are shifting their focus from trails to polished DHBMX runs like A-line. You cannot turn at highland without being on a berm. I think the number of turns sans-berm can be counted on two hands. Similarly, the most ridden trail at diablo may be dom to alpine. Plattekill is behind the times in that field and therefore may be suffering in rider turnout. I still think their trails are top notch, and I couldn't stop smiling as I was banging out runs two weeks ago. Shame it's not closer though.

 

[IH8Rice]

There's been a few events where Neko has posted up good results against some big names. He was 17th in Pro at the US Open, which is a great results considering who the competition was.

didnt he come in 2nd or 3rd in a Canada Cup race that Samantha Hill won?

 

[Transcend]

3rd behind delfs.

 

[spoke80]

I'm just gonna throw this out there, and maybe, just maybe, my tin foil hat is on a little bit too tight right now, but perhaps some of it has to do with the rise of reality tv? Everyone wants to be a superstar now, so they go where they can do that. There's not much money in racing, and what glory exists is pretty much limited to our own realm. A lot of people want the easy way to the top, and that more or less doesn't exist in cycling.

I agree! We must have the same tin-foil helmet design.

 

[IH8Rice]

3rd behind delfs.

thats pretty damn good for a kid who still isnt out of puberty

 

[jonKranked]

Yeah, platty was pretty empty two weeks ago but it was actually better than a year ago around this time. I think there was one or two other people on the mountain besides myself that year. I couldn't make last weekend since I had a wedding to attend to...although I should have. Not sure what that has to do with this current derailment though.

While I agree that lack of discipline is more of a piece of the puzzle than the only part, I still just don't believe lack of terrain is holding anybody back. I had heard some of the pros saying the trails at diablo were rockier than anything they usually ride on the WC.

Also, to further derail this thread, but being kind of on-topic to the other off-topic topic, more and more riders and therefore mountains are shifting their focus from trails to polished DHBMX runs like A-line. You cannot turn at highland without being on a berm. I think the number of turns sans-berm can be counted on two hands. Similarly, the most ridden trail at diablo may be dom to alpine. Plattekill is behind the times in that field and therefore may be suffering in rider turnout. I still think their trails are top notch, and I couldn't stop smiling as I was banging out runs two weeks ago. Shame it's not closer though.

You kinda hit the nail on the head. The most popular trails at Diablo are the groomed ones. Some of the gnarlier trails? They look barely ridden this year. Not that I'm complaining that these trails are less crowded, but with all the people riding at Diablo, they are sticking to (what I consider) the tamer trails.

In regards to Platty, one reason I suspect their attendance is declining is because they don't cater to it (super groomed trails). It's just a hard mountain to ride, period. Granted, the building this year has improved drastically over recent years (there are more berms where they need to be, and they are built better than they used to be by far. Wouldn't consider them world class, so I am hoping that this will turn it around.

I guess it's not for the complete lack of difficult terrain, but more people just wanting to ride groomed lines.

That and America is still a sue-happy country. Methinks some mountains don't have crazy difficult trails for fear of litigation

I agree! We must have the same tin-foil helmet design.

Where'd you find that picture of me?!

 

[Sandwich]

I dig the goggles. Are the new Dean line?

I actually saw the delta boys digging some new lines up there and some of the sections were very WC-esque in the sense that they had blown open a section, rather than having one "line-less" trail through the middle of it. Makes line selection and setting up for the next corner or section much looser. I agree that their trail building has improved IMMENSELY and they haven't bermed every turn, which I still love.

Back on topic, mostly, I'm glad this race went over well and there weren't too many injuries. I was honestly expecting them to shut the jumps just before the race run and blame it on the wind, but I can't wait to see more video. I still think the in-woods bad lighting poor shot riding is the best to do, but this makes for good "work sucks let's ride" inspiration.

 

[SylentK]

I must say I didn't mind the huge increase in fit xc ladies this weekend wearing their little onesies.

MB UK already has the recap of the entire weekend.

 

[bizutch]

Ha hah!! Berms at Plattekill? Herndon and me tried to help Jay Dejesus and one of the Van Dine's build the dual there one year. Rake 6 ounces of dirt...hit 3 pound rock...repeat. How do you make a berm there?

That place is one massive shale quarry. But man it was a neat experience. Only way I could see it is Laslo bought a cement mixer.

 

[jonKranked]

Ha hah!! Berms at Plattekill? Herndon and me tried to help Jay Dejesus and one of the Van Dine's build the dual there one year. Rake 6 ounces of dirt...hit 3 pound rock...repeat. How do you make a berm there?

That place is one massive shale quarry. But man it was a neat experience. Only way I could see it is Laslo bought a cement mixer.

Laz has been getting dirt from elsewhere and hauling it up the mountain in a dumptruck, at least in some spots.

Elsewhere they are using the skid steer to build things up (the slalom course, which is worlds better than what was on the bunny slope the last 2 years. Not as good as Highland's slalom, but then again they pretty much just re-set the bar for slalom courses from what I've heard).

Other spots they are just getting the dirt where they can and sifting out the bigger rocks.


But yes. Berms at Plattekill. They are not everywhere, but they are popping up where they are needed. Still pretty much a skeleton crew doing the building there.

 

[Sandwich]

Yeah, honestly I was blown away by it when I first saw it. There's a line the DBs built last year, using an old DH run, honestly the first I ever rode, then made two berms, a launch a double and another berm back into the woods. I have no idea where they found dirt. They're legit berms, too, not the typical "six pieces of shale in a semicircle equals a berm" like some of the jumps.

 

[IH8Rice]

Yeah, honestly I was blown away by it when I first saw it. There's a line the DBs built last year, using an old DH run, honestly the first I ever rode, then made two berms, a launch a double and another berm back into the woods. I have no idea where they found dirt. They're legit berms, too, not the typical "six pieces of shale in a semicircle equals a berm" like some of the jumps.

like Jon said, we've been getting dirt from the local area. theyve also been using big bulldozers to dig up what little dirt is on the mountain and utilizing it with some of the newer features they have been building.

 

[Eastern States Cup]

wait till you see next weekends track, an actual series of berms in and out of the woods leading to a step down double

 

[jonKranked]

wait till you see next weekends track, an actual series of berms in and out of the woods leading to a step down double

All of the tracks this year have been great! I have been really impressed with them, and from talking to other riders they seem to be greatly enjoying them as well!



PS I thought you didn't like calling them "tracks"

 

[jonKranked]

Anyways, not to change the subject here, but on the original topic of the National Champs...

What was the consensus from the pros in regards to the 4X start? The gate right into a drop? I know that the start was changed at the last second by USAC, but I wanna know what the riders thought of it. Did they think it was great? Did they like it but think it needed some tweaking (in terms of positioning of the landing that is)? Or did they just hate it?

 

[bizutch]

So does Palmer have enough points to race the Canadian WC rounds now? Or does he get some sort of in for having won a World Cup?? How's that going to work?

 

[IH8Rice]

wait till you see next weekends track, an actual series of berms in and out of the woods leading to a step down double

 

[captainspauldin]

So does Palmer have enough points to race the Canadian WC rounds now? Or does he get some sort of in for having won a World Cup?? How's that going to work?

saw this on littermag..

"UCI points for Nat champs…
11th place = 20 points
12th place = 18 points

Palmer will have to petition for USA cycling to enter him as part of National team rider program if he wants to race MSA, but i guess he has already done this as entries for MSA closed already. This means he will have to race in the USA national kit. Stars and Bars!"

 

[jonKranked]

Palmer will have to petition for USA cycling to enter him as part of National team rider program if he wants to race MSA, but i guess he has already done this as entries for MSA closed already. This means he will have to race in the USA national kit. Stars and Bars!"

He'll show up with his USA skinsuit from 10 years ago

 

[jvnixon]

So does Palmer have enough points to race the Canadian WC rounds now? Or does he get some sort of in for having won a World Cup?? How's that going to work?

He petitioned, can't wait to see how he does at MSA

 

[RUFUS]

He petitioned, can't wait to see how he does at MSA

oddly enough, same here.

 

[bizutch]

He petitioned, can't wait to see how he does at MSA

Nothing says fast like moto guys on moto courses