Womens DH racing is not exactly known for its depth. but i still don't understand your point. whats the difference between going the slow way around features like Buhl did or just riding plain slow through other sections of the track like everyone she beat? cleaning a tech section hardly counts as 'hitting all the features' if you do it 10 seconds slower than anyone else. and 3 jumps hardly makes a dh track . . . except maybe on the internets
National Champs at SolVista Bike Park
- Thread starter ballr
- Start date
As it pertains to jumping, bizutch = bizitch I guess. 
Seriously though butch, sorry you didn't make it out to see all the blasting. It was pretty cool to see some of our best showing their stuff in front of some big crowds for once. We're just doing our best to get the sport and our little resort some positive pub. Nobody around here meant to offend you with our dirt shaping exercise.
If you ever make it out this way, look me up and I'll show you around.
Seriously though butch, sorry you didn't make it out to see all the blasting. It was pretty cool to see some of our best showing their stuff in front of some big crowds for once. We're just doing our best to get the sport and our little resort some positive pub. Nobody around here meant to offend you with our dirt shaping exercise.
If you ever make it out this way, look me up and I'll show you around.
Dude, 2-3 negative posts from Bizutch warrants this? Seriously? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The jumps certainly take the sport in a new direction, for better or worse, and I think that's the bottom line.
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You should meet him in real life.
hmmm... isn't that what i said?
i know for a fact there are 5 people on that list that were no in attendance, and they show up as dns in both quali and final results.
others preregistered months back and simply did not make the trip
some dns's (heikki hall for example) were dnf's (he flatted)
agian... people need to stop trying to find ways to slam this event, the big jumps, etc.
most injuries were minor, and no different than any DH race at the top level.
go to a world cup and see how many guys are banged up by the end of the weekend.
this was the best track for a "national" i have been on in the last 10 years
I bet the vast majority of the people opposed to the jumps simply can't ride them, or are scared to try anything that big. I'd hazard a guess these are the same people who are such vocal supporters of keeping meat-grinder sections like the mt snow yard sale (goodbye and good riddance) because at least they have a fighting chance or making it through, thumping their chests, and feeling like a man. lame.
Yeah, it does seem most people opposed to the jumps were simply too scared to try them.
I'm going to admit, I was scared at first but they were not really that hard when you think about it. It was a long distance to jump, but the lip didn't boost you up but it sent you out, making them easy to clear.
Personally, it was an awesome course and even though it was short I am amazed how exhausted I was at the end of qualifying!
On a side note...I want to give mad props to the medics. My race run crash could have been way worse and even though it was not as bad as it seemed (dislocated shoulder and mild concussion) they responded VERY quickly. Thanks guys!
Keep up the good work out there, I'll be back
I'm going to admit, I was scared at first but they were not really that hard when you think about it. It was a long distance to jump, but the lip didn't boost you up but it sent you out, making them easy to clear.
Personally, it was an awesome course and even though it was short I am amazed how exhausted I was at the end of qualifying!
On a side note...I want to give mad props to the medics. My race run crash could have been way worse and even though it was not as bad as it seemed (dislocated shoulder and mild concussion) they responded VERY quickly. Thanks guys!
Keep up the good work out there, I'll be back
Best course I've ever ridden period! Night and day from the 2006 Infineon national. ...funny, when I would run errands in the town the locals would always become interested once I told them there was a 50 ft jump. Big jumps make things entertaining. High speed helps to... put both in and you have a bad ass race! Race promoters take note.
No offense to you but as a UCI official asked me once "What does the term 'Pro' mean to you?" I said it means you have the necessary skills/know how and balls to race whatever is put in front of you on a given course.
If you are not current on all your skills (jumping included) then you are not prepared to race. Now I'm NOT saying that riders should be expected to do something they are not comfortable with...hell that is why they have go arounds even on pro courses. If you're not comfortable with doing something then simply do not do it, but a pro course should test every aspect of a rider...especially at the National Championship, and this did.
I'm just blown away that there is so much hype surrounding these 3 jumps, whether it be positive or negative. The rest of the track looked SICK in the POV video. Although, I was thinking that it would be a little longer of a track time-wise, but it must have been really fast the whole way through... really sad I had to miss it
Awesome video.
The jumps don't look all that bad in this video. They don't look like they have much (if any) kick to them.
isn't that what 3 days of practice is for?
or
i've never ridden in the mud, so there should never be a race in muddy conditions.
another video from westernslopestyle - 2009 US National DH Championships on Vimeo
waiting for the same. Watching him just playing around on the 4X course during the last practice session was great. He was absolutely killing it
Thanks bro. Yeah, guess no one felt like simply saying, "Nah, Butch. He was jumping them the whole time. You heard wrong or misunderstood."....
We need to cue some REO Speedwagon:
"Heard it from a friend whoooo....heard it from a friend whoo..."
I just saw Brad's course walk of this weekends Snowshoe race. They've put 3road gaps in the race course and I don't dig those either. They're all relatively straight forward but hitting the FAIL button upon landing is brutal and one of them broke a friends back. It was their choice to jump them...but still. I've done all of them clean and/or ugly in race runs in various courses , but just not my bag baby. That's all I wanted to say.
Sometimes I forget that I'm stepping on my buds toes and their hometrack pride. But didn't see Truckee comin' at me with an essay.
Sure, we could break our neck and be paralyzed for life walking out the front door wrong. But choosing to place that high of a risk on riders while we try to grow the sport doesn't sit well with me. The argument that amping up the air time will increase our marketability doesn't hold water with me.
Supercross jumps impress newbies for 3 laps.
I believe 110% that everyone at the race had a blast. I'm jealous I couldn't go and had I been there, I may have tried them...or taken the go around. Don't know. Didn't go. I congratulate the staff, the promoters, USAC for sorta supporting it, and all the die hards who commited to laying down 1 do or die, no holds barred run for a shot at a years glory!
Come ride Windrock. Bring a spare rim, spare brake pads and 2 spare derailleurs! Dirty SOUF!!!
I see the jumps as pointless for a race course, kind of like drops and hucks you see in freeriding videos. I was there and saw them in person. I have always seen building jumps in a race course as being dictated by the terrain. Enhancing natural features to make jumps. I am sure some of us have actually jumped farther off rollers or other features on a mountain. DH racing to me is about riding the terrain of the mountain as fast as I can. The jumps at Sol Vista where purely for spectators. The only way they made a difference in the race was if you hit them or not.
I can't say if I would have hit them or not, I probably would have by the end of a weekend. I was not riding this weekend since I am burnt out on riding lately. After hanging out at the race for 5 days I actually left with even less desire to get back on my bike. If jumps like that are the progression of the sport I do not see myself building a DH bike up again anytime soon.
I can't say if I would have hit them or not, I probably would have by the end of a weekend. I was not riding this weekend since I am burnt out on riding lately. After hanging out at the race for 5 days I actually left with even less desire to get back on my bike. If jumps like that are the progression of the sport I do not see myself building a DH bike up again anytime soon.
I feel that the jumps in this years pro course are completely misunderstood by some. Just being big, 50 foot doesn't automatically make the jump dangerous. In all honesty that is the size that jump needed to be for the speed and place the jump was in the course, and it worked very well. A 20' jump in the same place could of very well of been far more dangerous. Its all about the construction and design of the jump, not just the size. This 50' jump had a 40' long landing.
Also if anyone should know the dangers of a poorly designed jump, it would be the guy that built the jumps on this years course. Wents broke his back and had a long list of other injuries from the poorly designed and built coffin jumps at Mammoth a few years back, those jumps were small, far to small for the speed.
None of the guys at Sol Vista would let us, there friends, race on something they felt had unnecessary risk, or was poorly built.
Also if anyone should know the dangers of a poorly designed jump, it would be the guy that built the jumps on this years course. Wents broke his back and had a long list of other injuries from the poorly designed and built coffin jumps at Mammoth a few years back, those jumps were small, far to small for the speed.
None of the guys at Sol Vista would let us, there friends, race on something they felt had unnecessary risk, or was poorly built.
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The jumps were legit. I clipped a pedal during my race run between #2 and #3, lost a foot, and was able to hit #3 one footed just fine. Got the foot back on in the air and pedaled away . . .
Thought of the day: Don't race pro if you can't ride a bike over any reasonable course obstacle put in front of you. Simple.
Thought of the day: Don't race pro if you can't ride a bike over any reasonable course obstacle put in front of you. Simple.
I'll be the first to admit jumping is my weak point. I have no idea if I would have hit these or not, had I been there. Watching the vids, the boys were making it look so easy, I'd like to think that following some lads into them, I'd have given them a go.
What I do know, however, is that if the US&A wants to make it back into the WC scene, then Sol Vista has made a great start in showing what they are capable of.
NY, take notes.
Riders are the ones to listen to. It sounds like they all had a blast. Thats what it is all about. Hell, Europe should be taking notes from this race.
Huge congrats to all involved. Stoked for Joey and Brian.
What I do know, however, is that if the US&A wants to make it back into the WC scene, then Sol Vista has made a great start in showing what they are capable of.
NY, take notes.
Riders are the ones to listen to. It sounds like they all had a blast. Thats what it is all about. Hell, Europe should be taking notes from this race.
Huge congrats to all involved. Stoked for Joey and Brian.
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they did build it. and everyone had practice time to learn.
a 50ft gap requires the same skill set as a 10 foot gap. the only problem would be if you didn't feel confident enough in your riding abilities on a 10 foot gap to try going fast enough off a lip (a very very mellow looking lip at that) to clear 50 feet.
and if you don't have confidence in your riding abilities then what the **** are you doing racing pro?
Was standing right next to the tape when you did that, don't sell yourself short. That was one of the coolest recoveries I have ever seen. I thought you were in deep crap and you made it look smoother than a lot of other riders planned takeoffs
From the videos, those jumps look perfect. Props to the builders. Looks like a lot of fun to ride.
Not that I really want to add to the debate, but from watching the videos and looking at the pictures, I didn't see any off-camber, rocky or rooty sections. It may just be that no one got pictures or footage of that type of terrain... was there really none of that on this track?
The only style I have racing I have seen or heard of that truly represents real mountain bike riding is Super D. You have to have climbing skills, you have to have good technical handling skills, you have to have good fitness, and you have to be a good descender. It challenges more or less all aspects of mountain biking. You can be weak in one and make up for it with another, but you still need to be able to do it all.
XC challenges fitness and endurance the most. Yes, you have to have good technical handling skills and be able to climb and descend well, but unless you're extremely fit you're gonna be DFL.
DH is the same, but the other side of the coin. Fitness is important, but if you don't have great technical handling skills and can't descend like a monster, you don't stand a chance.
Short track is basically a road bike sprint with some knobbies.
Slalom/4x/mtx - sprinting, gates, jumping/tech handling.
Point is, most styles of racing focus primarily on a few aspects, not all. Not having all aspects will definitely hurt you, but most riders can be weaker in one area and make up for it elsewhere.
Do you really think that all riders do all of their downhilling exclusively at resorts? These kinds of jumps can and do exist outside of lift access riding environments.
Well put!
I agree 100%
Do all you folks who don't like the large gaps actually see them in person?
I think it was Nicholas Vouilloz who said "I never understood why race courses should be built for the least skilled".
And you're wondering if size does matter (ha!) look at the popularity of snowboarding. Do you think people would be as excited if pros were still hitting 10 foot jumps and 1/2 pipes with 8 foot walls like back in the 90s? We may never know, but big jumps bring spectators and spectators put $$ into the sport.
I think it was Nicholas Vouilloz who said "I never understood why race courses should be built for the least skilled".
And you're wondering if size does matter (ha!) look at the popularity of snowboarding. Do you think people would be as excited if pros were still hitting 10 foot jumps and 1/2 pipes with 8 foot walls like back in the 90s? We may never know, but big jumps bring spectators and spectators put $$ into the sport.
Dude, I saw that. I thought you lost a shoe or something. Nice recovery
Course looked fun, jumps look like they are built perfectly, pros should be able to hit those no problem...they're pros. I just DO NOT want to see more courses taking on a Willingen WOS style hyper-groomed "boardercross" quality. The upper part of Sol Vista looked rocky, nasty, and fast, just the way it should be.
first off, huge props to the entire Sol Vista crew and everyone who put on this event. It was the most memorable National Champs in recent years, even though I wasn't there physically. The course was dialed, support was in place perfectly (i.e., beer stands), and it was enjoyed by the vast majority of attendees.
on the other hand, all I read in this thread is "blah blah blah piss piss moan yadda yadda". What gives? Get off the computer and go RIDE instead of shooting down someone else's course-building ability or riding skills or confidence level, etc.
I mean seriously, how many of you that are bitching about the jumps actually race pro? I would wager not even half of you....
If you wouldn't be hitting the jumps in the first place, then your opinion is valid as always, but not really needed. Keep it to yourself and progress your own riding abilities.
Correct me if I am out of place; just making some observations.
on the other hand, all I read in this thread is "blah blah blah piss piss moan yadda yadda". What gives? Get off the computer and go RIDE instead of shooting down someone else's course-building ability or riding skills or confidence level, etc.
I mean seriously, how many of you that are bitching about the jumps actually race pro? I would wager not even half of you....
If you wouldn't be hitting the jumps in the first place, then your opinion is valid as always, but not really needed. Keep it to yourself and progress your own riding abilities.
Correct me if I am out of place; just making some observations.
Sweet vid from MTBR
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=539623
First section of footy has Mitch R doing his thing.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=539623
First section of footy has Mitch R doing his thing.
Not to be a smart ass, but actually they took out a portion of the Cherry Creek bike path from downtown Denver and placed it at the top so that anyone of any skill could do the Pro Course.
I think you need to review the photos and footy.
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well since there was a 15 foot road gap up top, and two 10 foot gaps in the woods in the middle...
first of the three big ones was about 30, the second 40, the third 50.... all with there own go arounds.... see where this is going.
the haters are just plain wrong... you guys have not a leg to stand on in trying to justify your stance.
i see how dusty the trail was from the videos, but how much tougher would the race have been if it poured on the hill?
Your totally right here, and the Sol Vista Crew would be the first to back you up on it.
These big jumps were built on what would of normally been a really boring section of open ski run. Instead they used them to help riders keep a flow hold speed and most importantly give a good show to the fans and groms.
The rest of the course had absolutely no grooming done. When the weekend started it was just a taped path through the woods. The only tools used to make most the trail was our bikes.
If it had rained the times would have be faster across the board. Sol Vista turns to hero dirt in and after the rain.
That's cool. Like I said, the upper section looks rad and super fast/technical. Makes sense to make the open stuff more fun/interesting.