[Udi]

Thought I'd throw in a word for Works Components, recently got some simultaneously offset and angled cups for myself and a friend. Both of us are running +1 steeper (which still leaves us at 62.6* on our Gamblers) but I have a large frame which I needed a little shorter, and he has a medium he wanted longer.

Myself and numerous friends have been using Works Components cups since Rick first made them (nearly 6 years ago!), he's always gone out of his way to help and prices his gear very reasonably. I know sometimes the replies can be a little slow but it's because it's a small business and very busy, I've found the quality and pricing worth the wait. Messaging on their FB page generally works well if anyone is trying to get in touch.

They've also been substantially more reliable than adjustable headsets like the CC angleset, so I always recommend that people buy fixed headset cups to avoid knocks and creaks.

They can make offset ones (no angle) or both together on request. Our custom ones use one external cup and give approximately 6mm / ~0.25" of offset along with 1 degree of angle change, but they also offer off-shelf options of 5mm and 7mm with no angle change:

Obviously a 1.5" headtube offers the largest geometric variation, however he makes various geometry-altering cups for all headtube sizes (even 1 1/8") so it's best to contact them with any specific needs.

 

[supercow]

I recently bought a 7mm "reach adjust" headset, and the quality is second to none.
For some reason the package didn't include the split ring insert to the top bearing, but Rick was quick to respond via Facebook and send me a replacement.

Can't recommend them enough, it's just what my Medium Demo needed.

 

[92SE-R]

What about for 44mm ht?

 

[supercow]

What about for 44mm ht?

He's working on those, though I suspect there will be a bit of a wait.

 

[mtdh]

Does this headset compensate for the change of height of the fork

 

[supercow]

Does this headset compensate for the change of height of the fork

Not sure what that means - does this pic of mine help in any way?

 

[toodles]

Does this headset compensate for the change of height of the fork

Nah, you just adjust your stantions in the crowns. Only an issue if you run them at one extreme or another.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Do they make the offset headsets for other head set sizes?
Like ZS56/ZS56?
Would be great to have one on my YT Tues...

 

[rollertoaster]

I've been running works headsets for a while now. I wouldn't even considering running another brand offset or angle.

 

[nmn25]

I have a 7mm offset one in the zerode (i'm 6'2") and a 4mm offset,1 degree slacker custom set for the pivot, can't sing enough praises.

 

[herbman]

I got one of there first 1 1/8 angle head sets. Many moons ago.

The cups are still going strong and I am just about to replace the bearings.

A few others in the crew Have got them now and are very happy with them.

A far better idea for slacking out a bike than off set bushes.

 

[imp]

I also approve-- I got a -1.5* tapered set for my butcher, then moved it to my Trek Slash after 3 years on it. I had to machine an adapter for the bottom cup so it's a press into a press, which sounds iffy but so far flawless.

My trailbike is 64.5* now, so that's nice as well

 

[crewsdawg]

Hello! This is an old thread but wanted to see if anyone knew the answer to this question: Does anyone know where to get replacement bearings? Obviously I could order them from the Works website, but I am wondering if there are other bearings (like Cane Creek) that are compatible. I know CC uses a gimbal, but I am not sure if this is the same design that Works uses?

Anyone know?

Thanks.

 

[Udi]

Hello! This is an old thread but wanted to see if anyone knew the answer to this question: Does anyone know where to get replacement bearings? Obviously I could order them from the Works website, but I am wondering if there are other bearings (like Cane Creek) that are compatible. I know CC uses a gimbal, but I am not sure if this is the same design that Works uses?

Works headsets just use completely standard bearings. You can use bearings to suit the races you use - I believe the options are either 36/45 or 45/45 degree. Their older headsets came with 36/45 (standard FSA items with blue seals) and the later ones come with 45/45 degree (usually a black seal, occasionally red). Cane Creek should make both of these bearings too - the OEM is the same for both brands (TH Industries).

The outer dimensions and angles are the same, so only the inner changes and dictate the races you can use. Both types of bearings are compatible with the headset itself.

There is no gimbal in the Works headset and it's a far superior design as a result (less to go wrong - the gimbals are a disaster at the best of times).

If you post a picture of your bearings (cleaned, showing both sides) and races, I can identify them, or you can probably figure it out yourself.

 

[crewsdawg]

Works headsets just use completely standard bearings. You can use bearings to suit the races you use - I believe the options are either 36/45 or 45/45 degree. Their older headsets came with 36/45 (standard FSA items with blue seals) and the later ones come with 45/45 degree (usually a black seal, occasionally red). Cane Creek should make both of these bearings too - the OEM is the same for both brands (TH Industries).

The outer dimensions and angles are the same, so only the inner changes and dictate the races you can use. Both types of bearings are compatible with the headset itself.

There is no gimbal in the Works headset and it's a far superior design as a result (less to go wrong - the gimbals are a disaster at the best of times).

If you post a picture of your bearings (cleaned, showing both sides) and races, I can identify them, or you can probably figure it out yourself.

Excellent info! Thank you. I wish I had taken photos of both bearings...I have both a Cane Creek 40 and a Works headset. I just now swapped the CC top bearing for the seized Works one.

The Works bearing had this etched into it: 6.5x41x45 degrees - The bearing had a black seal.
The CC bearing had this etched into it: Cane Creek 41mm

I assume these are compatible? What do you mean when you say "the outer dimensions and angles are the same, only the inner changes..."??

Also, I know that 36/45 and 45/45 are the angles - but what angles do these numbers refer to?

I really appreciate your time and info man!!!!

-Ryan

 

[crewsdawg]

Excellent info! Thank you. I wish I had taken photos of both bearings...I have both a Cane Creek 40 and a Works headset. I just now swapped the CC top bearing for the seized Works one.

The Works bearing had this etched into it: 6.5x41x45 degrees - The bearing had a black seal.
The CC bearing had this etched into it: Cane Creek 41mm

I assume these are compatible? What do you mean when you say "the outer dimensions and angles are the same, only the inner changes..."??

Also, I know that 36/45 and 45/45 are the angles - but what angles do these numbers refer to?

I really appreciate your time and info man!!!!

-Ryan

I should also mention that upon looking at the two bearings side by side, they look identical in dimensions - the only real concern I guess is the 36/45 vs 45/45...not sure if this would be noticeable by comparing (assuming they were different)... All in all though, I think it will work out ok...I hope...because I already swapped them!

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Can you really notice a difference in reach of 5 or 7 mm?

By the way I also have had great experience of Works Components anglesets. I have them on 2 bikes with no issue

 

[Udi]

I should also mention that upon looking at the two bearings side by side, they look identical in dimensions - the only real concern I guess is the 36/45 vs 45/45...not sure if this would be noticeable by comparing (assuming they were different)... All in all though, I think it will work out ok...I hope...because I already swapped them!

The bearings in a headset have two angled surface, one on the outer diameter of the bearing and one on the inner diameter. The 36/45 refers to 36 inner / 45 outer. Both types of bearings I mentioned fit the same headset because the outer dimensions (particularly the angle) is consistent, it's just the races that change (can be either 36 or 45 degrees). The races are the things that you slide onto your fork steerer that the bearings sit against.

It sounds like your setup will work fine. If you experience problems later, you can just swap in the race that matches the bearing from the angleset most likely.

Can you really notice a difference in reach of 5 or 7 mm?

By the way I also have had great experience of Works Components anglesets. I have them on 2 bikes with no issue

It's ~1/4" and enough to notice if you have a bike that is slightly too short or long. Considering the difference between sizes is usually 1", this gets you a quarter of the way towards a different size.

 

[englertracing]

Thought I'd throw in a word for Works Components, recently got some simultaneously offset and angled cups for myself and a friend. Both of us are running +1 steeper (which still leaves us at 62.6* on our Gamblers) but I have a large frame which I needed a little shorter, and he has a medium he wanted longer.

Myself and numerous friends have been using Works Components cups since Rick first made them (nearly 6 years ago!), he's always gone out of his way to help and prices his gear very reasonably. I know sometimes the replies can be a little slow but it's because it's a small business and very busy, I've found the quality and pricing worth the wait. Messaging on their FB page generally works well if anyone is trying to get in touch.

They've also been substantially more reliable than adjustable headsets like the CC angleset, so I always recommend that people buy fixed headset cups to avoid knocks and creaks.

They can make offset ones (no angle) or both together on request. Our custom ones use one external cup and give approximately 6mm / ~0.25" of offset along with 1 degree of angle change, but they also offer off-shelf options of 5mm and 7mm with no angle change:

Obviously a 1.5" headtube offers the largest geometric variation, however he makes various geometry-altering cups for all headtube sizes (even 1 1/8") so it's best to contact them with any specific needs.

@Udi
do you still have these pictures?

 

[jonKranked]

@Udi
do you still have these pictures?

Works Components

Manufacturers and designers of Angle Headsets, Chainrings and other high quality World Cup Proven CNC bicycle components proudly made in the UK.

www.workscomponents.co.uk

 

[englertracing]

yeah, but he got ANGLE and REACH all in one...
that is off menu.
I'm trying to get works to make one for friend who needs MOAR LONGRZ, and MOAR SLAKRZ

 

[kidwoo]

Then get friend to buy DDFFRRNNT BYYK

 

[englertracing]

Then get friend to buy DDFFRRNNT BYYK

Friend buy new CARZ and PAYZ FOAR WIFZ SKOOLZ, also has CHILDZ. Him also RIDEZ SLOW.

Basically his priorities aren't straight....
He's living my worst nightmare, poor bastard..

The angle + reach is something im going to buy him...

Buying him a DDFFRRNNT BYYK is not something I'll be doing.

 

[kidwoo]

Without a 5" headtube there's not going to be much to gain in terms of length. Even their reach only headsets were only a few mm (7mm I think?).

Just get a slacker one and the bike will ride longer.

 

[canadmos]

Friend buy new CARZ and PAYZ FOAR WIFZ SKOOLZ, also has CHILDZ. Him also RIDEZ SLOW.

Basically his priorities aren't straight....
He's living my worst nightmare, poor bastard..

The angle + reach is something im going to buy him...

Buying him a DDFFRRNNT BYYK is not something I'll be doing.

So basically it sounds like he won't notice an extra few millimetres?

 

[toodles]

I had one on my gambler that was +1 degree and +6mm reach but you need a 1.5" straight HT for it to work and for mine the top bearing became external.

The change in reach is definitely noticeable unless you're one of those people that don't notice their wheel is loose or something. I ended up just going up a frame size in the end but it made a significant improvement to the medium.

 

[kidwoo]

The change in reach is definitely noticeable

Life changing

 

[toodles]

Life changing

It's enough hey. Like a 6mm change in BB height, bar height, CS length, bar width etc is all noticeable. Hell the whole world fell apart when they increased wheel radius by 20mm and you don't even hold on to your wheels.

I forgot to mention that if your buddy isn't already running an angleset then a -1º cup and reach extension set will feel more or less the same for reach as the -1 puts the bars back towards you about the same amount. Plus if it is -1 and reach extension the external bearing is the lower one so it will slacken the bike more anyway as it lifts the front end by 10mm-ish.

 

[englertracing]

435mm reach medium
67 head angle
Needs all the help it can get....

A regular angle set actually shortens reach

 

[kidwoo]

Right.

Reach™


I keep forgetting I'm in the road cycling fitting department.

 

[jstuhlman]

may i suggest ye old layback for added fun?

 

[englertracing]

Lol. Tbh I thing you got it spun round

Right.

Reach™


I keep forgetting I'm in the road cycling fitting department.

Umm shouldn't the roadies be most concerned with tt? As with too too much they wouldn't be able to stick their nose into their friends lycra clad ass while riding up paved "sports motorcycle" trails?

Shouldn't dudes who stand up and jump and shit notice reach?

 

[englertracing]

may i suggest ye old layback for added fun?
View attachment 149014

Burn it

 

[kidwoo]

Shouldn't dudes who stand up and jump and shit notice reach?

Of course. But the idea that <10mm of anything being the only thing that is somehow making a meaningfully different bike for someone who 'rides seldom and slowly' is just barking up the wrong tree.

What's your friend really after? More stable? The slacker headangle and longer wheelbase from an angleset will do that, even if the magical reach number comes back a few mm.

Need better cockpit fit while sitting? Saddle position, stem height bar sweep, bar height, bar roll, and bar bend can take care of that.

Better standing fit? All the above minus the seat height can do that.


I'm not saying 5mm reach is 'imperceptible" as much as I'm saying "quit focusing on that as the only thing that can do what you're after"


I've got a 7mm reach headset on my dh bike. It doesn't really change very much. At all.

If you can find the headset you're looking for, sure, get it. But if not you can still make the bike work just as well with some other changes without getting stuck on REACH™ as the most meaningful metric. Because the truth is, if you need to change reach enough to really change the bike, you need a different sized bike. No one 'stands up and jumps shit' as much as dudes riding dirtjumps. And you can buy most of those frames in one or maybe two sizes to fit 5'4" to 6'5".

I've also spent like 9 months waiting on works components to run a batch of something I wanted before so that also has a little to do with it....

 

[toodles]

I've got a 7mm reach headset on my dh bike. It doesn't really change very much. At all.

You're right hey. 7mm is being a little over-pedantic and silly. Thats only half a frame size in difference.

Lets go back to discussing how unrideable 90% of tyres are because their sipings are incorrect and the block spacing is microns from correct.

 

[englertracing]

What's your friend really after? More stable? The slacker headangle and longer wheelbase from an angleset will do that, even if the magical reach number comes back a few mm.

- yeah probably, I'm looking for him to have less excuses to hide behind "modern bike this slacker that"

Need better cockpit fit while sitting? Saddle position, stem height bar sweep, bar height, bar roll, and bar bend can take care of that.

- He's short but has long arms, currently rocking 730mm bars tipped forward like in da hood

Better standing fit? All the above minus the seat height can do that.


If you can find the headset you're looking for, sure, get it. But if not you can still make the bike work just as well with some other changes without getting stuck on REACH™ as the most meaningful metric. Because the truth is, if you need to change reach enough to really change the bike, you need a different sized bike. No one 'stands up and jumps shit' as much as dudes riding dirtjumps. And you can buy most of those frames in one or maybe two sizes to fit 5'4" to 6'5".

-pretty sure works can make a +4mm -1*
The lower cup forwards 5mm upper 3mm by my mathz anyway.

I've also spent like 9 months waiting on works components to run a batch of something I wanted before so that also has a little to do with it....

- I ran a -1.5 om my pivot 5.7 I think i waited 2 weeks. Also noticed and did not appreciate shortening of reach on that bike that was too small for me. Functionally it was a good headset.

 

[englertracing]

You're right hey. 7mm is being a little over-pedantic and silly. Thats only half a frame size in difference.

Lets go back to discussing how unrideable 90% of tyres are because their sipings are incorrect and the block spacing is microns from correct.

Has anyone ever noticed a magic Mary is backwards from a conventional tire from a direction standpoint?

 

[slimshady]

The Superstar Slackerizer has an external upper cup but it only comes in the -2 degrees flavor FWIW. It's also in stock and generally cheaper than Works.

If the guy needs a bigger wheelbase that might do it for him.

What stem length is he running BTW?

 

[kidwoo]

You're right hey. 7mm is being a little over-pedantic and silly. Thats only half a frame size in difference.

Lets go back to discussing how unrideable 90% of tyres are because their sipings are incorrect and the block spacing is microns from correct.

How many faceplants and torn knee ligaments has 7mm of 'reach' caused you?


What company in 2020 only has 14mm of reach difference between sizes?




2020

 

[kidwoo]

Has anyone ever noticed a magic Mary is backwards from a conventional tire from a direction standpoint?

YEAH TOODLES! YOU EVER NOTICE THAT!!!!!????






not directed at you at all englert, inside joke

730mm bars tipped forward like in da hood

I have an idea of where to start!