nicolai c##k-up

Dog Welder · Oct 28, 2004

welll ...your story is one ive heard repeated many times over. That' seems to be the MO for Nicolai. I guy I know here in Pasadena was shipped a Helius 3 months late and without a shock.

RhinofromWA · Oct 28, 2004

Never order ANYTHING from a bike company unless they have it instock. It seems rampent in the industry to take orders and have no way of producing or delivering the items ontime.

With Custom bikes it is even less likely it will ever happen in the time you expect.

Some mistakes that you and tons of other people make in regarding the bike industry. This is not a knock on you but a harsh reality as I have seen it:
1) Pre order = We will take your money and don't have a clue when the bikes will be available.
2) Odering a color/size not instock = We have no idea when your BLue large will be available soi to keep you happy we will send you a white medium instead.
3) Custom order = We will have to squeeze it in somewhere but we have bigger orders to fill, how about a White medium?

neaky:
4) ......I think you get my drift.

When I was ordering a new frame I asked what they had. They said they had the frame I wanted but only in white....and red would be a few weeks.....***ALERT ALERT***

Um I am OK with white and it can go out tomarrow? Good lets do that.

I don't know how stuck on this bike you are but it might be better for both parties to return the items (frame and money) and you go somewhere else. Mind you if they have started a custom frame than it is not likely you will be able to regect it as it was not their standard model and was made for you.

Don't be angry at them and see if they are willing to just work with you and cut both your losses.

Lesson: Order what is available, and if it isn't go elsewhere......OR.....be ready for the hassle of the accepted practice of the bike industry....be very patient.

Rhino

ioscope · Oct 28, 2004

cancel, nicolai is a bunch of ****s. Why support Germany when you can support the US and get quality surface.

ioscope · Oct 28, 2004

SURFACE? service sorry about that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :stupid:

flatulant_man · Oct 30, 2004

i would look for another company that has something similar you could rock. if this is the only bike you want, i'd wait and see if you can figure it out, but otherwise, look around, see if you can find a more reliable company. something closer.

sama1ter · Oct 31, 2004

Nicolai's are a pain in the ass too get...but once you get them, its well worth the wait...i have 2.

MikeD · Nov 3, 2004

Celebrate when you have it in your hands, not before.

Personally, I'd never buy another. I like my BMXtb a lot, but there have been too many screw-ups and screw-overs that I've seen locally. Plus, there have been wierd inconsistencies and oddball quirks with the framebuilding.

MD

Echo · Nov 3, 2004

Get a Yeti DJ or a Kona Cowan.

The only time you ever want to order a frame that is not in stock, is when you don't care how long it takes to get it.

atrokz · Nov 3, 2004

MikeD said:
Celebrate when you have it in your hands, not before.

Personally, I'd never buy another. I like my BMXtb a lot, but there have been too many screw-ups and screw-overs that I've seen locally.

would'nt that have more to do with your importer?

MikeD said:
Plus, there have been wierd inconsistencies and oddball quirks with the framebuilding.

MD

seen many, never seen one flaw. ever.

although they did send me a free shock accidentaly once

sour grapes me thinks.

MikeD · Nov 3, 2004

Um, no, not sour grapes. There were LOTS of problems with the importer, to be sure, but not all of them.

Let's see...a 4-month wait past the promised due date on the two frames I owned (and still own and enjoy one of!) and NEVER seen a frame delivered on time, at least two MPires I saw with linkages that were too long, necessitating a shorter replacement, one replacement swingarm that came without a derailleur hanger, one bike that showed up for a friend with a cracked shock mount, and the same friend's Helius ST that's completely unusable in the 8" position, as the seatstay yoke hits the linkage when it gets that deep into the travel; the yoke is just too fat and runs into the link. It's more easily shown in a pic than explained...but it's not my bike and I don't have a pic of it. Odd thing to have on a very expensive, supposedly well designed bike. (Did you experience this on your bike? It's the same model, and you didn't seem to have any problems with the 8" setting...)

There was also another frame 'repair' that left the bike with an absurdly steep headangle. (You could look at this as "hey, at least they helped him instead of saying it wasn't warranty coverage," but the representation of the warranty by the importer-again, not Karl-at the time of purchase was "5-year no fault.") Then again, it's sold as an 'unbreakable hardtail...'

And that's just stuff off the top of my head; there are a lot more trials and tribulations if I really decide to think about it. I don't know. None of it is truly damning, damning stuff...nothing like the rip-offs other companies have put people through, but fixing it is also time-consuming on this side of the Atlantic, and communication has been difficult with both the importer and with Germany, with both sides often blaming the other for problems. Just too many shennanigans for me to put up with, personally, when you're paying the prices you pay for a Nicolai.

Maybe that's not a problem in Britain, being much closer. I can't say. I can only say what I personally would and will do-which is not buy another Nicolai. That's not sour grapes; it's just my choice. And as someone with product/brand experience, when my opinion was solicited, I gave it. Frankly, that's the first time I've ever let my true feelings about the brand out. I've restrained myself prior to this, out of respect for Nicolai's products and business. I don't want to be known as some Internet trash-talker, but I guess I felt it was time to call it like I personally see it.

MD

Orvan · Nov 3, 2004

MikeD said:
at least two MPires I saw with linkages that were too long, necessitating a shorter replacementMD

That's the beauty of being part of a "development team."
At times we get raw stuff only to be informed that "it may not work." When I came on board I knew what to expect. I'm a patient guy and meticulous about what I choose. I like Karl bec he actually listens to some of our feedbacks and has incorporated them to their current or upcoming design (ie: 2004 Lambda). There are risks when you deal with out of country companies which involve schedule, production batches and even language barriers...and nameless excuses from different angles. I tend to look beyond that bec when I actually do get the product, regardless of when, it's always a nice package. I am happier now and I am in a unique position that I don't have to deal with the business aspect of it (whoring for Danny) while running the team. We ride Nicolais because we like to ride. That's why we are trimming the "fat" for next season. Hopefully the new US Importer (ex-teammate) will do a better job. Bah!

So go cancel the order. Stop bitching and get another company for the frame and ride!

Orvan · Nov 3, 2004

atrokz said:
although they did send me a free shock accidentaly once

I was hoping Karl would accidentally send a medium size Nonius XC to our team mailing address...bah!

atrokz · Nov 3, 2004

MikeD said:
Let's see...a 4-month wait past the promised due date on the two frames I owned (and still own and enjoy one of!) and NEVER seen a frame delivered on time, MD

This is without a doubt a problem. but keep in mind production is small, and they are always filled in production. I expect this and inform the customer of this always. this is not mcDonalds. I'd rather wait for something special than buy a N***** off the store wall. However, i have recived many frames on time.

MikeD said:
at least two MPires I saw with linkages that were too long, necessitating a shorter replacement, one replacement swingarm that came without a derailleur hanger,MD

lol, the linkages sold were definatly proper. the bike is sold as a WC race bike, and these linkages are what the team uses. if the BB is too low, the fork is too short. You need to set up the bike with a tall 8 inch fork. While I wholehartedly agree this sould have been pointed out. As far as replacement swingarms without deraileur hangers: was a derailuer hanger asked for? they cost extra

MikeD said:
one bike that showed up for a friend with a cracked shock mount,MD

Shipping courier

MikeD said:
and the same friend's Helius ST that's completely unusable in the 8" position, as the seatstay yoke hits the linkage when it gets that deep into the travel; the yoke is just too fat and runs into the link. MD

there is no seatstay yoke on this bike, i assume you mean the chainstay yoke. well, keeping in mind you US guys were using shocks never designed for the bike, I can understand why. I use the proper 2.8 inch stroke fox shocks or similar, no 3 inch stroke romics. I know this works on some bikes, but not all. this was undoubtably the problem

MikeD said:
(Did you experience this on your bike? It's the same model, and you didn't seem to have any problems with the 8" setting...)MD

no, no problems at all

MikeD said:
There was also another frame 'repair' that left the bike with an absurdly steep headangle. (You could look at this as "hey, at least they helped him instead of saying it wasn't warranty coverage," but the representation of the warranty by the importer-again, not Karl-at the time of purchase was "5-year no fault.") Then again, it's sold as an 'unbreakable hardtail...'MD

Nicolai clearly states in the waranty "we don't claim our frames are unbreakable". And if something does break within 5 years, and it's a defect, they will fix it. If you got a frame back and it seemed off, I would have checked it with precision tools and sent it backif it was defective. Nicolai only made a mistake on one order of mine, and gave me the options free of charge. Good CS if you ask me.

it's a shame alot of you guys got the shaft. while comunication with germany has been tough, Nicolai has always helped me out, never messed up a frame for me, and if a frame was late, appologized. Top level guys, and I feel I have every need to vouch for them. as far as the US side of things go, I don't know enough to comment.

Cheers,
a

atrokz · Nov 3, 2004

Orven said:
We ride Nicolais because we like to ride.
So go cancel the order. Stop bitching and get another company for the frame and ride!

word,

thats the sole reason i got into this.

to support my dirtly habits!

MikeD · Nov 3, 2004

I'm not going to get into an Internet quoting bash fest...but the Helius does have a seatstay yoke. That's the part that goes between the chainstay and the linkage, where the seatstay on a bike normally is. How the bike "couldn't have one", I can't say.

Perhaps the links were meant to be as they are, but Nicolai did end up sending shorter ones to some owners. This can be seen as bad design OR great customer service. I know people who were amazed (not in a good way) at the difference between the proto they rode and the production models. The design also seems odd with the chain rub on the swingarm with a 42t chainring...yeah, I know it's a WC DH bike, but sometimes even pros run 42t or smaller rings, and it's not something I personally want in a bike.

I think these complaints/feelings are quite in line with my description of 'quirks' I haven't liked on Nicolais. I'd include the falling-rate suspension on the UFO in these 'quirks.' Just don't like the geometry or the suspension feel or the weight, especially given the bike's intended purpose.

Nor was the cracked shock mount a problem with the courier. The mount had marks from something being shoved in there...like shock reducers that were too wide. We actually blamed the importer, but I've since heard rumors (didn't investigate because I don't care) that someone in Germany fessed up. In any case, it's certainly an isolated incident and not indicative of some overall QC problem. Didn't mean it to sound that way.

The swingarm problem wasn't that it didn't have a replaceable hanger, it's that it didn't have a way to attach a derailleur at all.

Again, not trying to tit-for-tat here. There are things that have bothered me about Nicolais, so I won't buy one or tell others to do so. You obviously like yours, and I'm just fine with that...you'll notice I didn't jump in on the Helius thread in the DH forum spewing about how I hate them. I only mentioned my feelings when someone else was asking about problems with Nicolai. My friend who's had the most ridiculous experiences with the company and importer, through 3-4 frames now, still loves his; heck, he even rides the supersteep HA hardtail on downhill runs.

None of these thoughts or experiences are germain to the 2MXtb that began this thread...I love the Nicolai HTs, and they're solidly made, like I've said many times. I just don't *personally* love them enough to ever wait on Nicolai or pay the price ever again.

MD

MikeD · Nov 3, 2004

Oh, and as to the warranty, well, we didn't buy our bikes from the website. Again, that was an importer representation issue, and we should have asked for and read the fine print. However, I did note the irony on a promo clip I later downloaded from the Internet site that indeed called the bikes "unbreakable hardtails." Surely not a legal issue or a formal claim of 'unbreakability,' but it was indeed there in the marketing.

Ridemonkey · Nov 3, 2004

Had a hell of a time getting mine too. In fact, it was sent with a custom rear end built for a Rhollof hub, and a standard front triangle. The cable routing didn't work at all. I had to send it back and wait even longer.

It's been a great, trouble free bike though. The quality of the frame is amazing. The bikes are great. The process is not. Find a reliable US importer, stick to your delivery dates, and if you f%$@ it up, bend over backwards to make it right in a timely manner. Do that and I'm sure you will have a big following.

Orvan · Nov 3, 2004

I wanted to be the importer when approached by Karl at last year's Interbike.. I later declined bec I didn't want to deal with whiners and questions I anticipate getting like; "how heavy is that? what's the travel on this? Can I freeride with that?" I'm not that nerdy for pete's sake.

and MikeD, DO NOT generalize your Mpire impressions and experiences through Donnie (BMXMAN). You know how capable the Mpire is at the hands of those who ride it.

Orvan · Nov 3, 2004

aight peeps, get those furballs outta yer butts, get out and ride more...

braaapt

GO BUY ROCKY MTN BIKES and be happy..

MikeD · Nov 3, 2004

I know how I feel about the bike, myself; I actually never rode Donnie's much, just got my impressions off of Freak's...and I know that fast riders can be that way on generally any masheen. Especially if they ride padless.

MD

Orvan · Nov 3, 2004

MikeD said:
Especially if they ride padless.

MD

I'm investing on some... Pegboy saw my digger on a lip of jump with a sink hole.. knee pads would have made it a little less painful.. ride on!

BMXman · Nov 3, 2004

sama1ter said:
Nicolai's are a pain in the ass too get...but once you get them, its well worth the wait...i have 2.

you bought both of your frames used...off of people here in the US.....D

BMXman · Nov 3, 2004

Orven said:
and MikeD, DO NOT generalize your Mpire impressions and experiences through Donnie (BMXMAN). You know how capable the Mpire is at the hands of those who ride it.

wha...don't drag me into this....I didn't like the M-pire...end of story....D

sama1ter · Nov 4, 2004

BMXman said:
you bought both of your frames used...off of people here in the US.....D

i've yet to hear a story of somebodyt hat got the bike, and the parts, on time, direct from nicolai.

i'm glad i bought them used i didnt have to wait

Orvan · Nov 4, 2004

BMXman said:
wha...don't drag me into this....I didn't like the M-pire...end of story....D

Knowing how you evaluate bikes' performance and attributes, you were just referenced, not dragged. There are people who can adapt and people who are stuck on placebo perfect bikes. I'm glad you like the new ride, or so I heard. Latez.

Funky Monk · Nov 4, 2004

sama1ter said:
i've yet to hear a story of somebodyt hat got the bike, and the parts, on time, direct from nicolai.

i'm glad i bought them used i didnt have to wait

That's because they're all out on the trails riding their bikes instead of whining...this is stuff that's bound to happen, especially among relatively small, independent quality frame manufacturers...and especially if you order something they haven't got in stock.

Back on topic: In a perfect world, the importer should give you an somewhat realistic estimate on how long it's going to take for a custom frame to arrive on your door, though. So I'd blame the importer...just wait for it. 99% of the time Nicolais are über-quality products, and soo worth the wait.

atrokz · Nov 4, 2004

First off, It's important to stress that I'm completely fine with you dislike of Nicolai. I'm not set to have everyone like and love them. In fact I could'nt care less. If you want a norco, enjoy. But, I feel that there is alot of unfair slagging going on, and it makes me laugh when I see some of these peoples complaints. This is not McDonalds, this is a small German company. the euros do it right, and take their time to do so. Ever see a waiting list for a custom ordered Porsche or BMW? most of you would be all over the german automotive fourms whining if you were in fact fortunate enough to order one. so, with that being said, my disection

MikeD said:
but the Helius does have a seatstay yoke. That's the part that goes between the chainstay and the linkage, where the seatstay on a bike normally is. How the bike "couldn't have one", I can't say.MD

um, no it does not have a seat stay yoke (that part that conects the two seat stays? does not exist. there's enough lateral stifness from the genious use of needle bearings in both the main pivot, and the drop out pivots. if your frame hit, I'll bet my left nut it was set up improperly. Perhaps the use of some of these aftermarket shocks has not been tested enough.

MikeD said:
Perhaps the links were meant to be as they are, but Nicolai did end up sending shorter ones to some owners. This can be seen as bad design OR great customer service.

Well, having ordered 2 M-Pires, I know that if I asked for the links, they were sent, if I did not, they were not sent.

MikeD said:
I know people who were amazed (not in a good way) at the difference between the proto they rode and the production models. The design also seems odd with the chain rub on the swingarm with a 42t chainring...yeah, I know it's a WC DH bike, but sometimes even pros run 42t or smaller rings, and it's not something I personally want in a bike.

Running a 40t ring has not been a problem. I know you guys got pre production bikes though, and as most pro racers know, pre production stuff is for you guys to develop. get it?

MikeD said:
I think these complaints/feelings are quite in line with my description of 'quirks' I haven't liked on Nicolais. I'd include the falling-rate suspension on the UFO in these 'quirks.' Just don't like the geometry or the suspension feel or the weight, especially given the bike's intended purpose.

Any single pivot design has a falling rate. fix? it's called a air shock, it puts a rising rate on it. also, you can have a ultra light version with air shock if you ask. I know, I've seen the KRC mode.

MikeD said:
Nor was the cracked shock mount a problem with the courier. The mount had marks from something being shoved in there...like shock reducers that were too wide. We actually blamed the importer, but I've since heard rumors (didn't investigate because I don't care) that someone in Germany fessed up. In any case, it's certainly an isolated incident and not indicative of some overall QC problem. Didn't mean it to sound that way.

Um, rumors?

Now, I've got to say, in my ordering process, i've noticed this:

I order a frame, and wait. I call around the time it's in it's production week to see where it's at. if there are delays, I inform the customer. When it's ready, I get sent an invoice. On this invoice, I noticed twice that the information was incorect. Had I been a McDonalds 'rush rush' syle guy, I would have had mad customers. however, I inform them of this, and wait with alot of emails and calls untill it's right. So far, every frame has been correct because I, the importer, did a proper job of getting things right. So with this being said, my customers are ALL happy, and have never had a improper frame. So I blambe your bad times on something other than Karl and the Nicolai GmBH crew. They are all top notch guys if you take the time to get it right.

With regards to the M-Pire. So far every mag that has tested it has given it awsome reviews. theres nothing to get over or get used to. it works like it's intended to, and the honors prove so. But hey, thats MHO.

cheers,
a

atrokz · Nov 4, 2004

Ridemonkey said:
It's been a great, trouble free bike though. The quality of the frame is amazing. The bikes are great. The process is not. Find a reliable US importer, stick to your delivery dates, and if you f%$@ it up, bend over backwards to make it right in a timely manner. Do that and I'm sure you will have a big following.

well said.

nicolai does not need to improve it's product. Just it's basic CS here in NA

Orvan · Nov 4, 2004

What about 'em Santa Cruz Bullits eh?!!!

BMXman · Nov 4, 2004

Orven said:
Knowing how you evaluate bikes' performance and attributes, you were just referenced, not dragged. There are people who can adapt and people who are stuck on placebo perfect bikes. I'm glad you like the new ride, or so I heard. Latez.

and there are also people who don't want to "adapt" to a bike but rather ride a frame that compliments their abilities and that's their choice....The M-pire's performance is not what I was looking for in a bike so I moved to another frame. I know there is not a perfect bike out there but the M-pire wasn't even close for my riding style....I'm not saying the M-pire is a bad bike just that it didn't suit MY riding style....D

BMXman · Nov 4, 2004

Atrokz...as far as the cracked shock mount...I spoke to Karl directly about it and he said one of his guys tried to force a shock in there that was too wide...thus the frame was cracked....and as far a comparing Nicolai to BMW or any other car company for that matter is silly. There is a lot more work in building up a custom car order than welding together a MTB frame...look I'm not here to beat on Nicolai but people here seem to keep making excuses for Nicolai when they are obviously at fault when it comes to customer service.

Yes the US importer didn't help Nicolai's reputaion acoording ot many customers but why is Nicolai as a company not seen at fault when he was selling THEIR bikes here in the US...If I had a company and one of my distributors was tarnishing my image I would surely do something about it instead of letting it go on for more than a year.....D

Orvan · Nov 5, 2004

BMXman said:
I know there is not a perfect bike out there

It does not exist but in the mind and attitude. Fun riding starts up there!
We need to get you out more on rides more than just twice a year with us.. You're getting too cooked up with e-biking.

Rabie should start a Bitter-Nicolai Fans Club (no ownership required).. PM your inquiries to Rabie.

brake_and_bleed · Nov 7, 2004

if you do stick with it, you will have a supersweet frame though?
and im sure you would regret parting with the order if you cancelled...
DONT DO IT!!

make the right decision...

kicknitLivE · Nov 8, 2004

I didn't read 9/10ths of this thread, but I have one thing to say in response to the nicolai rep or whoever that was. Most people assume that a new frame come with a frickin derailleur hanger. Mine came with TWO! This bullsht to charge extra for a hanger on a dh bike. If you're already charging 3000 for a frame why not make it 3004 and throw in a hanger. This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't sympathize with the chap that is so mad about waiting for his custom rig. They're in Germany, and they're hand made! Just ride your other bike and be happy.

atrokz · Nov 8, 2004

kicknitLivE said:
I didn't read 9/10ths of this thread, but I have one thing to say in response to the nicolai rep or whoever that was. Most people assume that a new frame come with a frickin derailleur hanger. Mine came with TWO! This bullsht to charge extra for a hanger on a dh bike. If you're already charging 3000 for a frame why not make it 3004 and throw in a hanger. This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't sympathize with the chap that is so mad about waiting for his custom rig. They're in Germany, and they're hand made! Just ride your other bike and be happy.

Well, it was a replacement swing arm if i'm correct.

Frame's do come with a hanger and I would add a second one at my charge

neaky: .

Also worth pointing out, Nicolai's hangers cost about as much as a hanger for a generic company's frame. Have you seen one of Nicolai's hangers? fully CNC'ed, top notch stuff with alot of work in them. Thing is, Nicolai makes no money off this hanger, and all replacement parts for that mater. So 'rip off' is far from fair.

cheers,
a

nicolai c##k-up

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