[slyfink]

Disclaimer: I know there is knowledge on this sprinkled throughout various threads and forums, but I'd like to compile it in once place.

The creaking on my Pike is getting worse. The anodizing on the stanchions is wearing out. I recently put a nice couple of gouges in the stanchions. So I think it could be a good time to replace it and I'm wondering what my options are. It will go on my 2016 Transition Patrol that otherwise runs beautifully.

Criteria:
I have a non-boost King hub I'd like to keep.
160mm travel
27.5" wheel
old school offset (42mm or 44mm I suppose)
Unless I bought from a trusted source, I'd prefer new so I can warranty any creakiness crowns...

Saw a 36 Grip2 that fits the bill over on CRC, but it's not particularly discounted despite being a 2020 model. Wondering if I should jump on it because it's a unicorn, or whether there are other better options out there...

Thoughts?

(I put this in the Lounge since it's not a DH fork, and no one reads the other forums...)

 

[StiHacka]

I'd get a boost fork and a conversion kit for the hub.

 

[Full Trucker]

I have a boost fork on my hardtail that has a non-boost wheel, and I use a set of 6-Bolt Front Boosters from Problem Solvers to use my non-boost wheel on the front. Works totally fine, no issues. Just in case you can't find anything non-Boost out there you're interested in.

Also, does CK make a conversion end caps or anything for that hub?

 

[Full Trucker]

I'd get a boost fork and a conversion kit for the hub.

Gah, sniped!

But also, I have real-world experience with this, and it works great. Would bang again.

 

[Da Peach]

I'd get a boost fork and a conversion kit for the hub.

same. Unless dealing with the older fork and parts availability doesn’t bother you.

 

[Adventurous]

MRP Better Boost Endcap Kit - Converts 15mm x 100mm to Boost 15mm x 110mm - fits King ISO 6-bolt

Shop & Learn About The MRP Better Boost Adaptor Kits In The Front Axle Conversion Kit Collection - Features & Specs: : , : MPN: WB-17-5206 UPC: 702430174527, : The Better Boost Adaptor Kits allow you to upgrade your existing 15x100mm front wheel to the Boost 15x110mm fork standard. Even better...

www.worldwidecyclery.com

If you can source one of these kits, boost forks would be a viable option.

 

[jonKranked]

MRP Better Boost Endcap Kit - Converts 15mm x 100mm to Boost 15mm x 110mm - fits King ISO 6-bolt

Shop & Learn About The MRP Better Boost Adaptor Kits In The Front Axle Conversion Kit Collection - Features & Specs: : , : MPN: WB-17-5206 UPC: 702430174527, : The Better Boost Adaptor Kits allow you to upgrade your existing 15x100mm front wheel to the Boost 15x110mm fork standard. Even better...

www.worldwidecyclery.com

If you can source one of these kits, boost forks would be a viable option.

yea, its super easy to convert a non-boost hub to work in a boost fork. couple spacers on the rotor.

 

[slyfink]

I have a boost fork on my hardtail that has a non-boost wheel, and I use a set of 6-Bolt Front Boosters from Problem Solvers to use my non-boost wheel on the front. Works totally fine, no issues. Just in case you can't find anything non-Boost out there you're interested in.

Also, does CK make a conversion end caps or anything for that hub?

yes, but sold out I think.

 

[slyfink]

same. Unless dealing with the older fork and parts availability doesn’t bother you.

Yeah. I guess this is correct. Opens up more options too.

 

[Westy]

Hughb needz moar shimz

 

[Changleen]

Fox’s Grip 2 is pretty damn good.

 

[Jm_]

yes, but sold out I think.

So get one of the $8 ones on Ebay. I have a bunch of these. They work great. If you are paranoid about dropping one, put another in your tool kit. They are dirt cheap.

I sure as hell am not trashing perfectly good wheels.

 

[Changleen]

Getting a boost fork is more forward compatible.

 

[6thElement]

Getting a boost fork is more forward compatible.

It means he'll be able to buy the kit to convert to superboost too when those come out.

 

[Nick]

Another vote for boost fork + adapter on hub. I ran that setup with zero issues.

 

[Jm_]

It means he'll be able to buy the kit to convert to superboost too when those come out.

Boost-steerer?

 

[6thElement]

Boost-steerer?

Got to be different from Giants 1.25" upper and the new phat e-bike 1.8" lower steerer measurement though.

Edit: I'm thinking it needs to go metric, 34/48.

 

[stevew]

 

[slyfink]

So I was all set to pull the trigger on a 2021 36. But then I did a bit of digging, and it seems that the Lyrik has a stiffer chassis, and at least as good damping as the 36 Grip 2 if this test is anything to go by: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/rockshox-lyrik-ultimate-2021-review/

I've been pretty pleased with the quality of my Pike over the past 5 years. It's just clapped out, which is normal. I'm a heavier rider at 220lbs, and ride chunder at a not-beginner pace. I'm thinking a Lyrik could be a good option too, depending on the price difference.

Thoughts on Lyrik vs 36?

 

[Full Trucker]

Thoughts on Lyrik vs 36?

I've been running Fox stuff so long that whenever I ride a RS fork it feels really weird to me. The approach to damping just seems... different. So if you like your Pike, that Lyrik is probably the money sauce for you.

 

[Changleen]

So I was all set to pull the trigger on a 2021 36. But then I did a bit of digging, and it seems that the Lyrik has a stiffer chassis, and at least as good damping as the 36 Grip 2 if this test is anything to go by: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/rockshox-lyrik-ultimate-2021-review/

I've been pretty pleased with the quality of my Pike over the past 5 years. It's just clapped out, which is normal. I'm a heavier rider at 220lbs, and ride chunder at a not-beginner pace. I'm thinking a Lyrik could be a good option too, depending on the price difference.

Thoughts on Lyrik vs 36?

It is my general understanding that the Fox Grip 2 damper is considered superior to even the Lyric‘s upgraded version. Sits higher in general use, tracks better, and the chassis difference is negligible.

 

[mykel]

Take off Yari and an Avy cartridge?

 

[rideit]

Has this turned into a ‘what fork?’ Thread?
Zzyzyx,, Bitches!

 

[Westy]

So I was all set to pull the trigger on a 2021 36. But then I did a bit of digging, and it seems that the Lyrik has a stiffer chassis, and at least as good damping as the 36 Grip 2 if this test is anything to go by: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/rockshox-lyrik-ultimate-2021-review/

I've been pretty pleased with the quality of my Pike over the past 5 years. It's just clapped out, which is normal. I'm a heavier rider at 220lbs, and ride chunder at a not-beginner pace. I'm thinking a Lyrik could be a good option too, depending on the price difference.

Thoughts on Lyrik vs 36?

I have one of each in MY2019 guise on two very different bikes. Fox 36 on a Ibis Ripmo and the Lyrik on a Chromag hardtail, both have very similar geometries. No real complaints about either one. The Fox was a lot harder to dial in the setup, but the knobs on the Lyrik don't make much of a difference and it worked well out of the box. At 185 lbs ready to ride I have HSC and LSC almost all the way out, not sure how much adjustment would be there for you @220 lbs. The 2019 Fox will pretty much go to full lockout, newer ones have less adjustment but older ones had too much IMO. The Lyrik feels stiffer and seems to track better even with the rear end of the bike bouncing around all over the place and trying to knock me off my line. I don't go quite as fast on the hardtail but I feel like I demand a little more out of the fork as I have to ride nose heavy. Lyrik feels a little more supportive than the 36 but the 36 is more supple.

One of these days I will swap them between bikes and see how they feel.

I'd go with the one that matches the color scheme of your bike the best.

 

[jstuhlman]

do you like terrifying cracking sounds emanating from the front of your bike after a year or so, happening after everything from landing a manual to running over unassuming square edge rox? fear give you adrenaline surges that will surely propel you to either a kom or a pair of soiled shorts? well then fox it is for you!

 

[jdcamb]

We all learned the Manitou lesson. We won't be fooled again. Dorado is a pretty cool name...

 

[HardtailHack]

Using those stupid little dickbag spacers in a Mezzer was not much fun. Manitou put a little hump that the hub has to slide over before it lines up with the axle holes.

After fitting the wheel twice I'd had enough, got a new hub.

 

[slyfink]

Has this turned into a ‘what fork?’ Thread?
Zzyzyx,, Bitches!

Ha! And now, to make it even more cliché, let's talk 29r! (or rather, let's talk Mullét)

The fork will be going on my 2016 Transition Patrol Carbon (medium). It just dawned on me that this is the opportunity to go 29 on the front. The geo chart for my bike states reach of 432mm, bb drop of 15 (+/- 339mm bb height), STA of 75.4° and HA of 65°, using a A2C of 552mm as a baseline.

Going 29 front will:
- raise BB
- slacken HA
- slacken STA
- shorten reach

But I'm not sure by how much. I'm looking at the 29r Lyrik, and it has an A2C of 561, so 9mm taller. I think the wheel itself is 20mm taller at the axle (source). So that's an extra 3cm taller at the bars... I currently run only one spacer under the stem. But I could run a longer stem, slammed to the headset, and run flatter bars to lower bar height again.

That doesn't solve the shorter reach, higher BB, and slacker STA though... Any idea how much shorter, higher, and slacker it would be? I suspect it would make the bike better on the downs, but detract from the climbs. While I climb in order to enjoy the downs, I still have to chase my buddies around on all their stupid climb-focused cross-country escapades...

 

[Westy]

Ha! And now, to make it even more cliché, let's talk 29r! (or rather, let's talk Mullét)

The fork will be going on my 2016 Transition Patrol Carbon (medium). It just dawned on me that this is the opportunity to go 29 on the front. The geo chart for my bike states reach of 432mm, bb drop of 15 (+/- 339mm bb height), STA of 75.4° and HA of 65°, using a A2C of 552mm as a baseline.

Going 29 front will:
- raise BB
- slacken HA
- slacken STA
- shorten reach

But I'm not sure by how much. I'm looking at the 29r Lyrik, and it has an A2C of 561, so 9mm taller. I think the wheel itself is 20mm taller at the axle (source). So that's an extra 3cm taller at the bars... I currently run only one spacer under the stem. But I could run a longer stem, slammed to the headset, and run flatter bars to lower bar height again.

That doesn't solve the shorter reach, higher BB, and slacker STA though... Any idea how much shorter, higher, and slacker it would be? I suspect it would make the bike better on the downs, but detract from the climbs. While I climb in order to enjoy the downs, I still have to chase my buddies around on all their stupid climb-focused cross-country escapades...

Depends on the wheelbase. Your whole bike will rotate, the angle is ATAN (29/WB).

Well not exactly, but that will be good enough for your purposes. Since the fork is at an angle the 9mm of increased ACH will only lift the front end about 6mm.

Guessing a wheelbase of 1250mm it would slacken your angles about 1.2 degrees. Change in reach will be tiny. BB would be about 9mm higher.

 

[6thElement]

Ha! And now, to make it even more cliché, let's talk 29r! (or rather, let's talk Mullét)

The fork will be going on my 2016 Transition Patrol Carbon (medium). It just dawned on me that this is the opportunity to go 29 on the front. The geo chart for my bike states reach of 432mm, bb drop of 15 (+/- 339mm bb height), STA of 75.4° and HA of 65°, using a A2C of 552mm as a baseline.

Going 29 front will:
- raise BB
- slacken HA
- slacken STA
- shorten reach

But I'm not sure by how much. I'm looking at the 29r Lyrik, and it has an A2C of 561, so 9mm taller. I think the wheel itself is 20mm taller at the axle (source). So that's an extra 3cm taller at the bars... I currently run only one spacer under the stem. But I could run a longer stem, slammed to the headset, and run flatter bars to lower bar height again.

That doesn't solve the shorter reach, higher BB, and slacker STA though... Any idea how much shorter, higher, and slacker it would be? I suspect it would make the bike better on the downs, but detract from the climbs. While I climb in order to enjoy the downs, I still have to chase my buddies around on all their stupid climb-focused cross-country escapades...

I think @Andeh has a website link that lets you input pre-mullet geo and show what you'll end up with...

 

[Andeh]

I think @Andeh has a website link that lets you input pre-mullet geo and show what you'll end up with...

https://geo.syn.bike/

Bike Geometry Calculator - MAD SCIENTIST MTB

A mountain bike geometry calculator for mullet bikes, fork changes, anglesets, etc. Visually compare multiple bikes. Calculate your bike's RAD.

madscientistmtb.com

I've been using the first one, but second appears to do the same thing.

 

[6thElement]

Custom title for @Andeh please @Sandwich if you have the power , I vote "Mullet King"

 

[Westy]

https://geo.syn.bike/

Bike Geometry Calculator - MAD SCIENTIST MTB

A mountain bike geometry calculator for mullet bikes, fork changes, anglesets, etc. Visually compare multiple bikes. Calculate your bike's RAD.

madscientistmtb.com

I've been using the first one, but second appears to do the same thing.

My SWAG trig was pretty damn close

 

[StiHacka]

Customer title

Watch out what you wish for.

 

[Andeh]

Ha! And now, to make it even more cliché, let's talk 29r! (or rather, let's talk Mullét)

The fork will be going on my 2016 Transition Patrol Carbon (medium). It just dawned on me that this is the opportunity to go 29 on the front. The geo chart for my bike states reach of 432mm, bb drop of 15 (+/- 339mm bb height), STA of 75.4° and HA of 65°, using a A2C of 552mm as a baseline.

Going 29 front will:
- raise BB
- slacken HA
- slacken STA
- shorten reach

But I'm not sure by how much. I'm looking at the 29r Lyrik, and it has an A2C of 561, so 9mm taller. I think the wheel itself is 20mm taller at the axle (source). So that's an extra 3cm taller at the bars... I currently run only one spacer under the stem. But I could run a longer stem, slammed to the headset, and run flatter bars to lower bar height again.

That doesn't solve the shorter reach, higher BB, and slacker STA though... Any idea how much shorter, higher, and slacker it would be? I suspect it would make the bike better on the downs, but detract from the climbs. While I climb in order to enjoy the downs, I still have to chase my buddies around on all their stupid climb-focused cross-country escapades...

Yeah, so that's the typical issue you're going to run into. It's going to raise the front a bunch (including the BB) and slack everything out a lot. The slacker HT wouldn't be awful in your case, but the seat will also get a lot worse, and the higher BB will make it feel a lot worse in berms. I'd recommend looking at what throwing in a 1 degree angleset would do along with the new taller fork. It should offset roughly 2/3 of the seat angle and BB changes from the fork, but of course will get you down to like 63 degree head angle.

 

[slyfink]

Yeah, so that's the typical issue you're going to run into. It's going to raise the front a bunch (including the BB) and slack everything out a lot. The slacker HT wouldn't be awful in your case, but the seat will also get a lot worse, and the higher BB will make it feel a lot worse in berms. I'd recommend looking at what throwing in a 1 degree angleset would do along with the new taller fork. It should offset roughly 2/3 of the seat angle and BB changes from the fork, but of course will get you down to like 63 degree head angle.

there's offset bushings too.... But to be honest, I'm not convinced this is something worth chasing down at this stage. I'll likely only ride this bike until my older son fits on it - which will should be in a year or two. Hopefully by then bike companies will be selling mulet bikes that are designed around (optimized for?) the mis-matched wheel size....

 

[Andeh]

there's offset bushings too.... But to be honest, I'm not convinced this is something worth chasing down at this stage. I'll likely only ride this bike until my older son fits on it - which will should be in a year or two. Hopefully by then bike companies will be selling mulet bikes that are designed around (optimized for?) the mis-matched wheel size....

Ahem: https://www.transitionbikes.com/Bikes_Patrol.cfm

 

[StiHacka]

I, for one, am happy that my rear wheels are no longer on the list of critically endangered species - at least for the next X months or so.

 

[jstuhlman]

@slyfink have you considered dropping travel by 10 or 20 mm? if i mulleted my nomad i'd likely go from 180 up front to 170.

 

[scrublover]

I've got a 2019 Lyrik 29 non-Boost with most recent updated air spring and Charger2.1 damper in - looking for a couple hundred bucks... Black, de-stickered. No creaks (but i'm only about 150#) or stanchion issues. Downside is the steer tube is short so a buyer would likely need a new CSU. Which may not be an easy thing to get right now.

But yeah, the cheap and easy spacers work very well. And are cheap and easy.