[MinorThreat]

Does that mean USAC is going to make Frosty and his crew work together with some of the regional promoters who KNOW the venues and have established relationships, volunteer infrastructure, etc. already in place?

And is TBB going to be held accountable, 'share the love' a little, get some local input to help grow and improve the event? I realize that TBB is probably one of the few promoters with the horsepower to do Nats, but they're a bit podunk themselves and could use a little 'encouragement' from above to better the operation.

 

[heikkihall]

A Canada cup. There is one there end of May every year. Usually a decent course, usually decently organized, and around $40-50cnd to register. You get 2 full practice days, then a 3 hour morning practice session.

Hopefully the big man up above does not try to drown everyone again next year.
Bromont is one of my favorite races of the year, even though the weather has been miserable the past two years.

 

[Transcend]

Miserable isn't even half of it. Last year was such a mess. Looking back on it though, it was friggin hilarious.

 

[jus]

Bromont is almost always a **** show and always the first race of the season.... At least there was a stream running down the middle of the track so you didn't get lost on the way down!

 

[Pbody]

A Canada cup. There is one there end of May every year. Usually a decent course, usually decently organized, and around $40-50cnd to register. You get 2 full practice days, then a 3 hour morning practice session.

Hmm, I will just have to add all the Canada Cup races to the itineray then to see how many are doable.

I was in Bromont back in '03 for the Masters, and the course, riding, and promoters were awesome.

 

[ViciousDHer]

While I agree that it's TBB running things into the ground, losing sponsors and being horrible at organization in general, you have to wonder WHY norba keeps sanctioning the events and giving them the go ahead.

Seeing as you are the new industry rep, can you give us a clear explanation for this? I man, it isn't like anyone has been silent on this, press and riders included.

Why not find another promoter, shop it around, or simply pull the plug for now on a "national" mountain bike series for DH and 4x seeing as it isn't serving any purpose (no points) besides being a money maker for TBB?

I ask this seriously, not being an ass.

TBB has a contract that NORBA has to Honor as the NMBS. NORBA is not happy with the schedule or TBB either.
However that does not mean NORBA can't introduce their own series or races that carry as many points as the NMBS. You may see NORBA in competition with TBB\NMBS as crazy as this may seem. Watch for AMBC or AMBC type races being more important next year. The NMBS may not even be used as a qualifer for the world team next year.

AND I never said this

 

[ÆX]

TBB has a contract that NORBA has to Honor as the NMBS. NORBA is not happy with the schedule or TBB either.
However that does not mean NORBA can't introduce their own series or races that carry as many points as the NMBS. You may see NORBA in competition with TBB\NMBS as crazy as this may seem. Watch for AMBC or AMBC type races being more important next year. The NMBS may not even be used as a qualifer for the world team next year.

AND I never said this

so tbb pics the locations! WOW. no wonder we started having races on hills instead of mountains!

if there are smart people at norba, they know they need to grow.
why do they let this happen?

the way it should be done is all the "hungry promoters" submit there races for nationals. then a "smart" norba pics the best ones for THE SPORT!

Is there not promotion Co aside from TBB that will do NCS's?

 

[ViciousDHer]

so tbb pics the locations! WOW. no wonder we started having races on hills instead of mountains!

if there are smart people at norba, they know they need to grow.
why do they let this happen?

the way it should be done is all the "hungry promoters" submit there races for nationals. then a "smart" norba pics the best ones for THE SPORT!



Is there not promotion Co aside from TBB that will do NCS's?

TBB accepts bids from venues. NORBA has NO say in their decisions.
At least until their contract is up. I was told by a promoter that they make much more money on their local series two day race than a four day NMBS race. So why would a promoter want to bid on a NMBS race ?? Certainly not prestiege any more.

For now TBB licenses the NMBS from NORBA and can do as they see fit. It was a knee jerk reaction when Chevy pulled out.

As TODD said You have to seperate the NMBS from NORBA. NORBA is stuck with TBB running the NMBS for now.

 

[Transcend]

And when does the contract expire? It seems that making it a multi year deal was a little bit ridiculous for something that was untested at the time (leasing out the entire series).

Funny that it has taken this long for that to come out, when i was asking around on the phone to the Springs, NO ONE would mention a word about any of this.

 

[ViciousDHer]

And when does the contract expire? It seems that making it a multi year deal was a little bit ridiculous for something that was untested at the time (leasing out the entire series).

Funny that it has taken this long for that to come out, when i was asking around on the phone to the Springs, NO ONE would mention a word about any of this.

I was given a very vague response to that exact question today.

" at least 2007 or 2008 I'll have to check and get back to You."

I suggest ALL NORBA license holders call their Regional Reps and discuss this directly. Mine understood the problems with TBB/NMBS and offered some hope. They were not at all happy with the current state of the TBB/NMBS situation.

I think NORBA's hands have been tied on this by contract obligations with TBB/NMBS and I sense a change is looming.

Todd can You shed some light on this ??

 

[ska todd]

To be very honest I know none of the intimate details of it all yet. I am just going off of observations of the situation and discussions I have had with people.

-ska todd

 

[ChrisKring]

If there were a LEGIT East Coast DH series combining all of the major mountains, how many folks would be interested in attending?

-ska todd

Yes, we would be interested. This year. most of our team raced over 10 major regional races plus the US Open and we didn't hit a single national for the first time in 10 years. For reference, in 2002 we had several team members that attended every national.

 

[ÆX]

Yes, we would be interested. This year. most of our team raced over 10 major regional races plus the US Open and we didn't hit a single national for the first time in 10 years. For reference, in 2002 we had several team members that attended every national.

last national i did was 2004 durango.

boycotting for the last 2 years and i am doing it again for 2007.

 

[zstyle_22]

Sorry to get off topic, but with the talk of canada cups, where do we find info on that?

 

[Transcend]

The best site owuld be the FQSC (quebec federation) as they have a pretty comprehensive list. Only issue is that it is all in french. www.fqsc.net . The UCI also lists all national events, but no promoter info (fqsc has this).

 

[BC VAN]

Not saying you'd have to ditch Norba...

What we have to recognize here is that Norba does NOT = TBB/NMBS...once you learn to seperate the two you can start seeing the big picture more clearly.

-ska todd

So where does the membership money go?

As far as i have heard, and your post gives it more credibility zero dollars go back into the series.. Lets say....15,000 members @ $50 bucks a pop, thats $750,000.
heck i pay $150 for my membership and i get nothing extra for that! give us a news letter/ a t-shirt/ ....how bout a news letter that says you'll be getting a t-shirt that says you got screwed for your membership money!

Wouldn't it make sense for USA cycling to say
"Hey TBB/Blue Wolf we are going to come in and pay for the TV production and time. You guys get a professional agency to use this to get sponsorship and the series can start to grow back"
Memebrship will come back if there is sponsorship
(better quality races) and sponsorship will come back because of TV

I have said this before ...I don't defend all of the decisions the current organizers of the NMBS but they will tell you this...They are ops guys, they can do ops...When they start having to get the sponsorship and the other things to run the series on a national level it gets to be a bit much...

I just don't understand how as a business you can not continue to reinvest some of your revenue to continue to grow?

It's going to take someone to come in with some big money upfront to do it right i think, ......Or if USA cycling is unhappy with the current group as has been stated....they can take a portion of the memebrship get a new group and start over?

This whole deal is a giant onion with lots of layers before you get to the center of it all.

 

[ÆX]

So where does the membership money go?

As far as i have heard, and your post gives it more credibility zero dollars go back into the series.. Lets say....15,000 members @ $50 bucks a pop, thats $750,000.
heck i pay $150 for my membership and i get nothing extra for that! give us a news letter/ a t-shirt/ ....how bout a news letter that says you'll be getting a t-shirt that says you got screwed for your membership money!

I just don't understand how as a business you can not continue to reinvest some of your revenue to continue to grow?

It's going to take someone to come in with some big money upfront to do it right i think, ......Or if USA cycling is unhappy with the current group as has been stated....they can take a portion of the memebrship get a new group and start over?

This whole deal is a giant onion with lots of layers before you get to the center of it all.

herehere.

we have been waiting for that to happen since 2000, why wait any longer!

we need a NEW LICENSING BODY for DH ONLY.

that and every DH racer and local race promoter to follow all at once.


mmmmmmmmmm,how can we get the usacycling mailing list....

 

[Cant Climb]

herehere.

we have been waiting for that to happen since 2000, why wait any longer!

we need a NEW LICENSING BODY for DH ONLY.

that and every DH racer and local race promoter to follow all at once.

mmmmmmmmmm,how can we get the usacycling mailing list....

Or you convince USA Cycling to let gravity racers manage their own arm from USA Cycling. That would be a better solution IMO.....there is still alot of importance in the world of racing with being associated to an established (albeit ill) federation.

 

[ska todd]

This whole deal is a giant onion with lots of layers before you get to the center of it all.

That is perhaps the best statement of this whole multipage thread.

It is not as simple as wipe slate clean; start over! There are lots of issues at play here but the biggest issue seems to directly relate to one topic: communication!

Many of you know me personally and from business. You know I did not put myself into the position to be complacent; I did so to help improve the community and the scene. I am a rider, a racer, and fan of the sport first and foremost!

there is still alot of importance in the world of racing with being associated to an established (albeit ill) federation.

and this is the main reason I jumped onto the ship vs trying to sink it.

-ska todd

 

[ÆX]

and this is the main reason I jumped onto the ship vs trying to sink it.

-ska todd

that is why the dh racer voted you in there. i just hope you can do some good. I am sure you mean well and know what needs to happen.
but will they take note and actually change some of there practices.

 

[bizutch]

If there were a LEGIT East Coast DH series combining all of the major mountains, how many folks would be interested in attending?

-ska todd

Only if you include the event I'm trying to put together. Come for the courses I always say. Fokk amenities....

 

[bizutch]

Several things about TBB's shortcomings have been touched on. TBB are logistics guys. They get the event done.
Their shortcoming, as EC pointed out, is they are not marketing guys. Marketing guys bring in money and sponsors because they are "concept" guys, "idea" guys and "net tangible benefit" guys. You can be the most organized promoter in the world, but if somebody is not hyping up your product to the market, you will not be successful.

Gone are the days of "Bailey's Bailout" ..."Budweiser whatever", etc. The things sponsors jump all over for the cool factor and their banners in a section aren't even part of events anymore. You have to have the spin master in your company for anything like that.

I would like to FORCE Tailwind Sports to do the Nationals Series. They are why US road races are the highest paying the world anymore.