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One Ghost

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stballer13

Chimp
Jun 3, 2007
5
0
Came across the one ghost musashi in my searches. The craftsmanship seems pretty good and the CNC work is really nice for such a small company. Made over in Portland, OR. They are pretty new to the market and I was wondering if you guys had any opinions on it, especially in regards to the suspension design. Probably not too many people with saddle time but im interested in finding out some more info. Been searching around trying to find out more but not a whole lot out there.

http://www.oneghost.com/
 
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MM_Freak

MM_Freak

Chimp
Oct 28, 2008
96
0
Western Mass.
Im sure one of the one ghost guys will pop in and give you a better explanation about the design and any other info you might need. I'll be on the Musashi in 2011 and I'll be sure to post a ride report as soon as I get some saddle time in. There are a few people who have got some ride time in and the info that I've got from them is all positive :thumb: I sent a message over to David (lead designer) so he should be able to answer any of your questions.
 
One-Ghost

One-Ghost

Chimp
Sep 10, 2006
41
0
Portland, Oregon
We have race tested the Musashi for a year and a half and machine tested and have been working on it for 2 years total while we have been working on our Moto GP floating suspension for about 5 years total now.

Before I began OG-I I raced for Yeti back in the mid-late 90's then Turner then worked at Marzocchi and after a while I opened my own bike shop in New Mexico (One Ghost Industries and Base Camp Bikes) focusing on our own clothing brand (then One Ghost Industries) and with that shop I was a Iron Horse Prodigy dealer and their official Rocky Mtn team manager so I got pretty used to their bikes.

I have been an industrial designer most of my life and been riding mountain bikes for 22 years and I raced from 1988 until 2003 when I finally retired from racing officially (though I think I am going to come back for Super D and maybe get into XC racing as my body is thoroughly beat down and I don't think I can be competitive in Vet pro anymore). All through high school I worked with bike companies and component companies like Tioga and T-Gear and I have worked with the above mentioned companies on bike design and feedback on them.

Anyway. Not being satisfied with the Sunday (though I loved how fast it was), I thought I could make it better so I started working with my friend GP, a former test analyst for Harley Davidson and Buel Motorcycles and we began design on our Moto GP Floating Suspension Design and we began prototyping.

I moved to Portland in 2007 and pushed the process for fully building the bike company of One Ghost Industries which was flowing along nicely. Hooking up with Rick Z. a former engineer for Ellsworth (also originally out of Portland and Rick lives here also), we sat down with what GP and I put together and brought it to life and that creature was the Katana, our first DH bike. The Katana debuted in 2008 on the MSC and it had a few issues like all prototypes will, but we worked those out while continuing to refine the design. Wanting a lighter, faster, sleeker bike, we came out with the Musashi platform and built upon it (Longbow and Genken frames are based on the Musashi platform).

The key to all of my bikes is "Long and low geometry" where I can blue the size lines by having long front centers, super short rear centers, crazy low bottom brackets and low standovers so you can have a variety of rider sizes able to ride any size bike for whatever application they may be interested in.

The second key is definitely the floating shock. That is the big key actually where we use the shock to create a short link true 4-bar action just like a "Moto GP" motorcycle Honda used to make (I can't remember the actual model anymore) which allows the wheel to track the earth much better than if the shock was static. as a bonus it eliminates brake jack and pedal feedback.
Side note: Our first generation bikes had pedal feedback engineered into them by the nature of the longer lower link, I wanted rearward travel and our test riders were split down the middle on that so I went ahead and removed the rearward travel (going from 30mm down to 16.7mm for 2011 bikes).

The bikes are fast, flat out. the Musashi won Cat 1 DH Colorado state championship as well as MSC championship along with the same races in Jr cat 2 and all of our riders were on the podium at every race they entered and rode the bike.

We worked with Elka exclusively to build a custom valved shock that works properly with the floating suspension and our 2.44:1 leverage ratio (variable from a starting ratio of 2.1:1 with an ending ratio of 2.44:1 giving us a smooth progressive feeling while maintaining a "bottomless" feel and making the bike feel and ride like it has 10" of travel and not 8".

I'll try to check this forum weekly to answer any questions but please feel free to e-mail me at info@oneghost.com. I will answer e-mail questions here on the forum unless someone wants a PM.

cheers all!
 
ocelot

ocelot

Monkey
Mar 8, 2009
395
10
Canadastan
with all the japanese inspired names, will you be naming one of your future models bukkake?

yes, yes i know, I'm immature :rofl:
 
U

ucsbMTBmember

Monkey
Nov 20, 2009
137
0
why the very time consuming one piece link? I appreciate the machine work but it would be cheaper to make it 2 or 3 pieces. Just seems very similar to srams XX cassette one piece gimmick.
 
U

ucsbMTBmember

Monkey
Nov 20, 2009
137
0
Schneidie said:
Stiffness.
Click to expand...
Still seems to be a gimmick. I think that it is very reasonable to make a 2 or 3 piece link that costs less and is just as stiff. Seems to be like the whole 1 vs 2 piece brake caliper design. 1 piece for calipers isnt always stiffer nor, does the stiffness in that case effect performance.
 
D

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
Gotta love it when the cheap seats pipe up and blubber about changes without actually knowing a single fact about what they want to change.

How do you know the OneGhost guys aren't getting the 1 piece link at a killer cost? Maybe they have a machine shop that can do it at the same price or less than a bolt together bit.

Stiffer, well I guess thats debatable, but I am sure they have their reasons for doing it the way they are, other than to sadistically gouge potential customers. After all, they aren't (insert any of dozens of companies that do that actually thing here). :D
 
U

ucsbMTBmember

Monkey
Nov 20, 2009
137
0
dropmachine.com said:
Gotta love it when the cheap seats pipe up and blubber about changes without actually knowing a single fact about what they want to change.

How do you know the OneGhost guys aren't getting the 1 piece link at a killer cost? Maybe they have a machine shop that can do it at the same price or less than a bolt together bit.

Stiffer, well I guess thats debatable, but I am sure they have their reasons for doing it the way they are, other than to sadistically gouge potential customers. After all, they aren't (insert any of dozens of companies that do that actually thing here). :D
Click to expand...
How do i not know what i want to change? its plainly stated that i would personally make it a multi piece link. No matter what you are paying for it 6 hours of cnc work on one part is expensive. Lets say that average machine shop price is $50 per hour for unmanned cnc work. thats $300 per part. Now take a discount for volume and you are at somewhere around 225 for one link.

All im saying is that personally i would make it a multi piece link, if i were to make it in my machine shop it would be cheaper that way. Im not saying that they are gouging us on prices. there frames are all competitively priced.
 
One-Ghost

One-Ghost

Chimp
Sep 10, 2006
41
0
Portland, Oregon
ucsbMTBmember said:
How do i not know what i want to change? its plainly stated that i would personally make it a multi piece link. No matter what you are paying for it 6 hours of cnc work on one part is expensive. Lets say that average machine shop price is $50 per hour for unmanned cnc work. thats $300 per part. Now take a discount for volume and you are at somewhere around 225 for one link.

All im saying is that personally i would make it a multi piece link, if i were to make it in my machine shop it would be cheaper that way. Im not saying that they are gouging us on prices. there frames are all competitively priced.
Click to expand...
We tested 2--piece upper links when while we were developing the platform and found them to be heavier and flexier than a 1-piece unit plus with the CNC time needed to make 2, mirror imaged parts plus hardware we can make a 1-piece link that is lighter and stiffer for not much more. the cost savings between having a 2-piece link over a 1-piece link is not enough to make the bike cost any less. we feel that at $1999.98 for a frame and rear shock you are getting a bargain. if someone wanted something less expensive then that is cool but we are pretty positive that you can't get a bike of this quality for less money. there is maybe a $45 difference between the 2-piece link and the 1-piece because of the machining time and yes, that link easily costs us $300 to make but if we didn't make it, the bike would not give us the ride we want.

If we were as large as Trek we would be able to force feed anyone a forged and welded link that costs them $86 to make because they make 1000 at a time but we are not. we make 100 bikes a year. period and we can barely afford to make that many!

As it is we all work 2 or 3 side jobs to pay the bills and we don't expect to get rich making and selling bikes. You really need to see one of these in person to truly appreciate the craftsmanship we put into each frame we do.
 
bizutch

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
I just want to go on record as saying Dave Meredith is a great guy. He was always awesome to deal with at Zoke and was there BEFORE their decline.

Oh, and Dave makes awesome shirt designs (not that it matters).
 
One-Ghost

One-Ghost

Chimp
Sep 10, 2006
41
0
Portland, Oregon
no skid marks

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
One-Ghost said:
we have been working on our Moto GP floating suspension for about 5 years total now. Can we see this?

The second key is definitely the floating shock. That is the big key actually where we use the shock to create a short link true 4-bar action just like a "Moto GP" motorcycle Honda used to make (I can't remember the actual model anymore) which allows the wheel to track the earth much better than if the shock was static.How so? Apart from being able to taylor the leverage ratio easier as the designer, I can't see how it helps the wheel track the ground, than a bike with the same pivot points, but a static shock with the same leverge curve(if possible). as a bonus it eliminates brake jack and pedal feedback.The theory on this design doesn't eliminate the pedal feedback, your virtual pivot point is responsible for this. There must still be a touch of anti squat/pedal feed back if you have a slightly rearward axle path but no idler. Negligable amount I'm sure, and rightly so, probably not worthy of mention.
Side note: Our first generation bikes had pedal feedback engineered into them by the nature of the longer lower link, I wanted rearward travel and our test riders were split down the middle on that so I went ahead and removed the rearward travel (going from 30mm down to 16.7mm for 2011 bikes).Did you think of adding an idler and sticking with the 30mm or more? What bikes were actually faster?

The bikes are fast, flat out. the Musashi won Cat 1 DH Colorado state championship as well as MSC championship along with the same races in Jr cat 2 and all of our riders were on the podium at every race they entered and rode the bike. Well done.

We worked with Elka exclusively to build a custom valved shock that works properly with the floating suspension and our 2.44:1 leverage ratio (variable from a starting ratio of 2.1:1 with an ending ratio of 2.44:1 giving us a smooth progressive feeling while maintaining a "bottomless" feel and making the bike feel and ride like it has 10" of travel and not 8".
Click to expand...
Is it just a shim stack thing? To help with the initial high leverage?

Great looking bikes, same with the others in the album.
 
One-Ghost

One-Ghost

Chimp
Sep 10, 2006
41
0
Portland, Oregon
One-Ghost

One-Ghost

Chimp
Sep 10, 2006
41
0
Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted by One-Ghost View Post
we have been working on our Moto GP floating suspension for about 5 years total now. Can we see this?

see what? the progression of the floating sus set up? it would require time of me scanning in old documents and such. eventually I'll get those done but that is low priority.

The second key is definitely the floating shock. That is the big key actually where we use the shock to create a short link true 4-bar action just like a "Moto GP" motorcycle Honda used to make (I can't remember the actual model anymore) which allows the wheel to track the earth much better than if the shock was static.How so? Apart from being able to taylor the leverage ratio easier as the designer, I can't see how it helps the wheel track the ground, than a bike with the same pivot points, but a static shock with the same leverge curve(if possible). as a bonus it eliminates brake jack and pedal feedback.The theory on this design doesn't eliminate the pedal feedback, your virtual pivot point is responsible for this. There must still be a touch of anti squat/pedal feed back if you have a slightly rearward axle path but no idler. Negligible amount I'm sure, and rightly so, probably not worthy of mention.no, I mentioned it
Side note: Our first generation bikes had pedal feedback engineered into them by the nature of the longer lower link, I wanted rearward travel and our test riders were split down the middle on that so I went ahead and removed the rearward travel (going from 30mm down to 16.7mm for 2011 bikes).Did you think of adding an idler and sticking with the 30mm or more? What bikes were actually faster? (que pasa?

I thought long and hard about the idler and in the end I didn't want to risk having to run the longer chain but yes, an idler would make the longer rearward travel pretty sweet. I have never been a fan of them though, one reason I started my own bike line rather than buying a Canfield (big fan of those guys!)

The bikes are fast, flat out. the Musashi won Cat 1 DH Colorado state championship as well as MSC championship along with the same races in Jr cat 2 and all of our riders were on the podium at every race they entered and rode the bike. Well done.

We worked with Elka exclusively to build a custom valved shock that works properly with the floating suspension and our 2.44:1 leverage ratio (variable from a starting ratio of 2.1:1 with an ending ratio of 2.44:1 giving us a smooth progressive feeling while maintaining a "bottomless" feel and making the bike feel and ride like it has 10" of travel and not 8".
Is it just a shim stack thing? To help with the initial high leverage? (honestly, I am not sure how Elka did it, they took a bike, took our engineering plan and built the shock around them

Great looking bikes, same with the others in the album.

thanks!
 
Csquared

Csquared

Chimp
Feb 22, 2006
20
0
Utah
I thought long and hard about the idler and in the end I didn't want to risk having to run the longer chain but yes, an idler would make the longer rearward travel pretty sweet. I have never been a fan of them though, one reason I started my own bike line rather than buying a Canfield (big fan of those guys!)

Thanks- :cheers:
 
atrokz

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
ucsbMTBmember said:
How do i not know what i want to change? its plainly stated that i would personally make it a multi piece link.
All im saying is that personally i would make it a multi piece link, if i were to make it in my machine shop it would be cheaper that way. Im not saying that they are gouging us on prices. there frames are all competitively priced.
Click to expand...
And I can sleep at night knowing you're not making bikes. :thumb:

A one piece design is technically stiffer, and you can control more of it opposed to a weldment or a bolt together assembly. I like the idea of an actual one part link. Grain structure, no HAZ, less weight. Win... Win... Win..

Of note: Trek's 'one piece' design is technically a two part weldment. Calling it a one piece design would never fly in aerospace. It's not one part. End of story.
 
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One-Ghost

One-Ghost

Chimp
Sep 10, 2006
41
0
Portland, Oregon
Tetreault said:
Do you guys have complete or semi-built options for 2011? if so whats the part spec?
Click to expand...
I am working on that now. I have 2 build kit options now:

the standard build kit is:
PARTS DESCRIPTION BRAND RETAIL $
FRAME AND SHOCK OG/ELKA $1,900.00
HEADSET CANDY $99.00
CRANKEST E-13 15G $299.95
SHIFTER SHIMANO SAINT $110.00
REAR MECH SHIMANO SAINT $199.98
F BRAKE SHIMANO SAINT $259.98
R BRAKE SHIMANO SAINT $259.98
ROTORS X 2 SHIMANO SAINT $110.00
BRAKE ADAPTER X 2 SHIMANO SAINT $22.00
CASSETTE SHIMANO ULT. 12-25 9 SPD $75.00
CHAIN SHIMANO HG-73 9SPD $30.00
CHAIN GUIDE E13 LG-1+ $150.00
CHAIN RING E13 GUIDE RING $29.00
BARS CANDY $60.00
BAR CLAMP CANDY $65.00
PEDALS
WHEELS AZONIC $400.00
FORK ROCK SHOX BOXXER RC $699.98
SEATPOST generic $21.00
SEATPOST CLAMP CANDY $15.00
TUBES X 2 INTENSE $20.00
GRIPS ODI RUFFIAN MX $29.99
TIRES X 2 INTENSE $89.00


$4,944.86

the economy build kit is:

PARTS DESCRIPTION BRAND RETAIL $
FRAME AND SHOCK OG/ELKA $1,900.00
HEADSET CANDY $99.00
CRANKEST: E-13 15G $299.95
SHIFTER: SHIMANO SLX 10S $64.99
REAR MECH SHIMANO SLX 10S $89.99
F BRAKE HAYES STROKER TRAIL 8" $90.00
R BRAKE HAYES STROKER TRAIL 8" $90.00
ROTORS X 2 HAYES $50.00
BRAKE ADAPTER X 2 HAYES $22.00
CASSETTE SHIMANO 5700. 11-25 10 SPD $75.00
CHAIN SHIMANO HG-73 9SPD $30.00
CHAIN GUIDE E13 LS1+ BLK $55.00
CHAIN RING E13 GUIDE RING $29.00
BARS CANDY $60.00
BAR CLAMP CANDY $65.00
PEDALS
WHEELS AZONIC $400.00
FORK ROCK SHOX BOXXER RC $699.98
SEAT POST GENERIC $21.00
SEAT POST CLAMP CANDY $15.00
TUBES X 2 INTENSE $20.00
GRIPS ODI RUFFIAN MX $29.99
TIRES X 2 INTENSE $89.00


$4,294.90

There is a $850 upgrade option to bump to a 40 or Dorado Pro on either of these also.

I am pretty positive these prices are right. if they look odd, let me know
 
F

freeridefool

Monkey
Jun 17, 2006
647
0
medford, or
I had this pile sitting at my house for a few months. It was/ maybe still is a friends bike of mine. It could possibly be used as an achor.


And a picture of what I think may actually be Dave's personal bike, that was lent to a friend of mine for a race. Its the one on the right.
 
One-Ghost

One-Ghost

Chimp
Sep 10, 2006
41
0
Portland, Oregon
freeridefool said:
I had this pile sitting at my house for a few months. It was/ maybe still is a friends bike of mine. It could possibly be used as an achor.


And a picture of what I think may actually be Dave's personal bike, that was lent to a friend of mine for a race. Its the one on the right.
Click to expand...
the top white bike was a prototype Katana that was refurbished and the bike on the right is a Genken prototype that Ken raced for me.
 
F

freeridefool

Monkey
Jun 17, 2006
647
0
medford, or
One-Ghost said:
the top white bike was a prototype Katana that was refurbished and the bike on the right is a Genken prototype that Ken raced for me.
Click to expand...
Ken had a rough day at that race. That Genken was pretty sick. I did an easy run on it. Not quite enough bike for dh racing but a killer fun bike to ride.
 
One-Ghost

One-Ghost

Chimp
Sep 10, 2006
41
0
Portland, Oregon
IH8Rice said:
those build kit prices all seem pretty close to full retail on everything..
Click to expand...
that is what they are. we can't sell anything for less that retail. we wouldn't be in business if we did. we offer special grass roots pricing to a small number of riders and racers that submit resumes however.
 
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