[S.K.C.]

Yep - it's the responsibility of the rider who is down-range to get out of the way if they "hear the train coming".:biggrin:

At the beginning of the season during a UCI World Cup practice in Vigo I think, Steve Peat came up on some slower riders on the course. They didn't move over to give Steve safe passage and in doing so, forced him to ditch his line, blow through a corner and crash dislocating his ring-finger.

I always think of it as a matter of safety and not some kind of competitive trip or anything like that. Could Peaty have found a place to pass the other riders on the course? Probably. Would it have been safe for him or the other riders? Definitely not. Piling into the back of another rider, even at slow speed is going to get someone injured. Moving out of the way is the best way to avoid this.

If I can do 3 solid runs during practice w/o sketching out (I'm a guy so this number will vary with everyone and anyone) on the course then I know I will rip it on my race run. If I can't - if I have to come to almost a complete stop before dropping into a gnarly rock garden, or if it's raining and can't seem to get my cornering wired, then I'll always tell the guy behind me in the starting order to give a shout if he's going to overtake me and I'll clear out.

If I've got the course comitted to memory and know that 90% of the time I'll be able to bail to the left, then I'll tell him - "if you're coming up on me yell - and I will always clear to the left..."

It's just common courtesy and good sportsmanship.

If you really get off on hogging the course, making other people loose their line, cutting people off to take away their line, or just plain mowing someone down - do us all a favor and race Mountain Cross.:biggrin:

They like that over there.

I've seen it.

 

[dante]

oh yeah, btw one thing i do is while I'm waiting in the starting line, i'll turn to the guy behind me and let him know that if he catches me, start hollaring and I'll move over immediately. I'll try to say this loud enough so that the person in front of me hears. If he doesn't/ignores me, I'll turn to him and say with a laugh "I highly doubt I'll catch you, but if I do I'll let you know..". this is also expert class, so you've got people who are a little more experienced and have been racing for a bit, so they're more knowledgeable. As always, a little information goes a long way.

 

[TreeSaw]

oh yeah, btw one thing i do is while I'm waiting in the starting line, i'll turn to the guy behind me and let him know that if he catches me, start hollaring and I'll move over immediately. I'll try to say this loud enough so that the person in front of me hears. If he doesn't/ignores me, I'll turn to him and say with a laugh "I highly doubt I'll catch you, but if I do I'll let you know..". this is also expert class, so you've got people who are a little more experienced and have been racing for a bit, so they're more knowledgeable. As always, a little information goes a long way.

Definitely! If I were to race DH, I would do the same.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Wow! Quite the debate going on here! I hate to see a pissing match among women and hope that it's resolved at this point, if not then I will be sure to "stay tuned"

For what it's worth here's my $.02:
Anne - Try to be a lot louder next time you catch someone and even obnoxious if that's what it takes. If you catch a rider ahead of you, they should definitely yield to you as soon as they possibly can. Also, if a rider doesn't yield, for whatever reason, and you feel that your time was hurt, then by all means, go to the race organizer and request a re-run.

Debo - enough of the attacking replies...you have been warned and the next one will be oppressed! The initial question was about passing during a race -- NOT about sandbagging. This is obviously a heated issue for you two ladies and I'd like to think we can work it out without getting into an argument. Your first and 2nd posts were rude! Anne was asking a legitimate question and didn't say anything about your situation. I certainly wouldn't lump Anne into the "sandbagger" category. This was her very first DH race experience...she had no idea how she would do and I respect her for sticking with her choice and finishing the series. IMHO sandbaggers generally know that they are better than the other competitors and enter a lower category with the sole purpose of winning...I don't see that as the case here (especially for a first time DHer and racer).

Wow! I sign-off for a little while and the drama brews. I miss all the good debates

Nicely put.

That's why I defer to you in these cases. Because if it were up to me, she'd be GONE.

VT couldn't have been more professional in asking her question and even trying NOT to refer to the specific event. Congrats Debo - now you've gotten MY attention!

 

[McGRP01]

oh yeah, btw one thing i do is while I'm waiting in the starting line, i'll turn to the guy behind me and let him know that if he catches me, start hollaring and I'll move over immediately. I'll try to say this loud enough so that the person in front of me hears. If he doesn't/ignores me, I'll turn to him and say with a laugh "I highly doubt I'll catch you, but if I do I'll let you know..". this is also expert class, so you've got people who are a little more experienced and have been racing for a bit, so they're more knowledgeable. As always, a little information goes a long way.

Yep. This is the way I handle it as well. And, after a couple races, you generally know if the person behind you is a ripper and will be on your wheel or not. Same goes for the person starting ahead of you.

 

[VT Mtbkr]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll make sure I speak up more if it happens again and not take for granted that the person is going to yield eventually.

The mudhunnies are a great group and I've gotten a lot a wonderful advice since I started downhilling. I had no intention of spoiling the good nature of this forum when I first posted this question that's why I have kept my comments in a professional form.

Thanks Everyone!

 

[sanjuro]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll make sure I speak up more if it happens again and not take for granted that the person is going to yield eventually.

The mudhunnies are a great group and I've gotten a lot a wonderful advice since I started downhilling. I had no intention of spoiling the good nature of this forum when I first posted this question that's why I have kept my comments in a professional form.

Thanks Everyone!

You did the right thing, nice job on your first season.

I rather enjoyed the controversy though, so nice job on unintentionally starting a fight.

 

[TreeSaw]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll make sure I speak up more if it happens again and not take for granted that the person is going to yield eventually.

The mudhunnies are a great group and I've gotten a lot a wonderful advice since I started downhilling. I had no intention of spoiling the good nature of this forum when I first posted this question that's why I have kept my comments in a professional form.

Thanks Everyone!

I think this thread has spawned some EXCELLENT advice for riders and racers alike!

 

[weimie]

I had no intention of spoiling the good nature of this forum when I first posted this question that's why I have kept my comments in a professional form.

Thanks Everyone!

You didn't spoil it....someone else did.

And congrats on the series win!

 

[Dartman]

To possibly (this wasn't a norba event) answer VT Mtbkr's initial question...

Norba rule 3A5:
"A passing rider has the obligation to pass safely."

Responsibility is on the passing rider, so her decision to hang back and not push it in a technical section was the correct one.

 

[lovebunny]

well i generally give someone three shouts. if i yell three times and they still dont pull over when they can then they get the shoulder

 

[SK6]

To possibly (this wasn't a norba event) answer VT Mtbkr's initial question...

Norba rule 3A5:
"A passing rider has the obligation to pass safely."

Responsibility is on the passing rider, so her decision to hang back and not push it in a technical section was the correct one.

Whew....Thank GOD it wasn't NORBA!

Now, this does spawn another question, if it is NOT a NORBA sanctioned event, then what would the general rule of thumb be, or how would the guideline be judged? I'm guessing that safety is first and foremost. I would guess a re-run can, and should be allowed in this type of case. So long as the course marshals indicate that the situation had occurred, if at all possible.

 

[DH Diva]

Karma's a bitch.

Yes it is. You have a lot to learn. Spouting off like a moron will get you no where fast in this industry. Maybe next time you should think before you speak. If you have any intention of progressing as a racer, you just seriously clipped your own wings. Keep in mind, this board is full of potential sponsors, team managers, team mates, race officials, ect. And if you don't think they see this stuff, you're very wrong. I have been involved with this industry a long time and seen a lot of racer's stupidity lose them a lot of opportunities, and respect.

I seriously hope you learned something from this.

 

[Biscuit]

Whew....Thank GOD it wasn't NORBA!

Now, this does spawn another question, if it is NOT a NORBA sanctioned event, then what would the general rule of thumb be, or how would the guideline be judged? I'm guessing that safety is first and foremost. I would guess a re-run can, and should be allowed in this type of case. So long as the course marshals indicate that the situation had occurred, if at all possible.

Most non-NORBA events I've been to say "this is a non-NORBA event, but NORBA rules apply", or something to that affect.

And to clarify what I said earlier: I'm not condoning knocking people over. I've only had one issue with someone not letting me by and that was only a trail ride (I chewed the guy out and nothing more - he was being a dick).

My frustration on issues like this doesn't so much stem from cycling as it does from everyday life. I can't stand people who think it's okay to negatively effect someone else or that they are "entitled" to something. Attitudes like that propogate anger and make the world worse off.

Hugs not drugs...

 

[amydalayna]

Hugs not drugs...

i needed a giggle this morning.
thanks.

 

[DH Diva]

Hugs not drugs...

Did you steal that from Nancy Reagan? I just about spit Chai all over my keyboard when I read that ya bastid!

 

[Echo]

Yes it is. You have a lot to learn. Spouting off like a moron will get you no where fast in this industry. Maybe next time you should think before you speak. If you have any intention of progressing as a racer, you just seriously clipped your own wings. Keep in mind, this board is full of potential sponsors, team managers, team mates, race officials, ect. And if you don't think they see this stuff, you're very wrong. I have been involved with this industry a long time and seen a lot of racer's stupidity lose them a lot of opportunities, and respect.

I seriously hope you learned something from this.

Let's play nice. The two parties involved seem to have worked it out, nothing good can come from fanning the flames at this point.

 

[sanjuro]

Drugs then hugs...

fixed it.

 

[DH Diva]

Let's play nice. The two parties involved seem to have worked it out, nothing good can come from fanning the flames at this point.

Echo, my post was directed more at how the person should express herself in the future, not necessarily towards the actual situation. Coming into a forum and being a jerk doesn't hurt anyone but the person doing it and often people new to these message boards don't realize that their actions here can have greater repercussions than they think. My post was meant to get this person to think about how they are presenting themselves and how to deal with situations like this in the future.

I appreciate that you are trying to avoid further conflict, but I really think what I said needed to be said so that this person realizes there are better ways to deal with conflict and certainly better ways of presenting one's case.

 

[Echo]

certainly better ways of presenting one's case.

Like not using words like "moron" and "stupidity"

You're certainly welcome to voice your opinion, and it seems you're one of the well respected hunnies. It just made me sad that 2 days after the original post, and a day after the two parties had settled things, you seemed to be trying to re-instigate things. With people like sanjuro admitting they get their jollies out of watching such things, I just think it brings everyone down.

 

[DH Diva]

Like not using words like "moron" and "stupidity"

You're certainly welcome to voice your opinion, and it seems you're one of the well respected hunnies. It just made me sad that 2 days after the original post, and a day after the two parties had settled things, you seemed to be trying to re-instigate things. With people like sanjuro admitting they get their jollies out of watching such things, I just think it brings everyone down.

Echo, I hadn't actually read this thread until this morning and it seems some tried being entirely nice to make the point but it wasn't being "heard." I'm not trying to fan a fight between these two people, but I had a valid point I wanted to make about internet arguements. Also, nobody had mentioned the issue of who is actually seeing internet conversations and sometimes it's good to put that reminder out there.

I'm glad that I have some how gotten the reputation as being a respected member of this board, but I have never been shy about voicing my opinion here, even though sometimes its blunt.

Again, this has nothing to do with the actual arguement, that sounds like it was resolved, but has everything to do with remembering that what happens here sometimes translates to real life so please think about that.

 

[Echo]

It's all good... this forum is for you ladies, and I certainly don't want to interfere, just trying to keep everyone from piling on the noob for making an errant hotheaded post ride on

 

[Transcend]

Its also my first year downhilling. By my third race if I was beating ladies in intro and amateur and some elite riders by 1-2 min Id move up a class. Judging from the time in your last 3 races you probably should have asked to go first then you wouldn't have to worry about passing true beginners. We call that sandbagging for those of you who don't understand.

If you wanted to pass so bad then why didn't you? Rather than trying to pass right before the final rock garden in a 90 degree turn why didn't you pass in the safe zone??? You had every oppurtunity in the last 3 sections......it wasn't like my arms and legs were sticking out so you couldn't. This is a race/competition and I don't care who you are, I'm not jeopardizing my time for you.

As far as physical contact goes...for those of you girls who like to fight and for those guys who like to hit girls....I call that unsportsmanlike and immature.

So buck up and quit youre whining. You won, didn't you? Get over it!

Karma's a bitch.

edit: a few people beat me to it.

 

[DH Diva]

It's all good... this forum is for you ladies, and I certainly don't want to interfere, just trying to keep everyone from piling on the noob for making an errant hotheaded post ride on

Echo, you know your an honorary mudhunnie! We love ya!

And to Debo, I really hope you stick around this forum. It's great that more women are on here. I'm really sorry I used you as the example for my little sermon, it just happened to be the perfect example of a new member being a little quick at the keyboard. I hope you weren't too terribly offended, but if you want to you can hate me....I am kind of a jerk. :biggrin:

 

[TreeSaw]

Let's play nice. The two parties involved seem to have worked it out, nothing good can come from fanning the flames at this point.

Hey, I'm the oppressor here Mr.

 

[TreeSaw]

Echo, you know your an honorary mudhunnie! We love ya!

And to Debo, I really hope you stick around this forum. It's great that more women are on here. I'm really sorry I used you as the example for my little sermon, it just happened to be the perfect example of a new member being a little quick at the keyboard. I hope you weren't too terribly offended, but if you want to you can hate me....I am kind of a jerk. :biggrin:

You, a jerk??? I highly doubt that! I really didn't see a need to "moderate" anything you or anyone else wrote in this thread. I think it was all valid, constructive critisim. I too hope Debo stays around. I've certainly learned a lot from my fellow mudhunnies and am always glad to have a new one on board!

 

[Matt H]

Sportmanlike conduct in most forms of racing is that the slower racer yields to the faster racer. That goes for car racing, bike racing, motor or pedal...pretty much every form of racing other than NASCAR and maybe motocross/bikecross type events. In car racing, you can be black flagged for blocking a passer, and if you're really behind, you should just hold your line while the lead racers go by.

Same should apply on a bike...most races start riders at 30 sec intervals, correct? If you're passing me, that means you're already 30 seconds ahead of me - there's absolutely no reason I shouldn't dock myself another 5 seconds (at most) and let you by.

 

[PsychO!1]

As a passing rider, please remeber that we are all wearing full face helmets and it's tough to hear. Don't assume the rider in front knows your there.
I know the noise of my heavy breathing and pounding heart rate consume my helmet.
Also, the full face helmet can muffle your plea to pass. So, yell loud, and yell often, and I'll let you by as soon as trail give me an opportunuty.

 

[erikkellison]

Interesting. I've never heard anyone suggest that the person who was caught (1 minute intervals!) had any right to keep on riding. If you're a minute slower than the person behind you in your class, then get out of the way!!! I do it when racing, riding, whatever. It's like giving the uphill hiker the right of way, or the person turning right always has the right of way over opposing left-turners. It's just a common rule. To suggest that someone should learn to pass if they're that good is ludicrous - there are not always safe places to pass. It should be suggested that the person who is a minute slower on a DH race lasting a few minutes should get out of the way because they're obviously impeding traffic, and their result isn't as critical as the person who caught up to them. Sure, you may want to do as good as you can, we all do, but pulling over for a rider who has caught up to you isn't going to hurt your time nearly as much as it will hurt the time of the faster rider behind you.
Slower Traffic Keep Right Except When Passing aka Get Out Of The Way
For the record, it's just as often that I'm the one being passed, and gladly move over in an instant. It's not only proper, but a good chance to ride behind a faster rider and see how they ride in their element. You're bound to learn a lot more that way then holding up the rider.
Oh, and please name a sport where the drastically slower racer doesn't allow the faster racer to pass. Every sport, motor or no motor, allows the much faster racer to pass because they are no longer competing on the same level (i.e. getting lapped), and they are not really hurting their time by moving out of the faster lane for a second or three, but the fast racer is suffering drastically.
Wow, that was long. I guess the slow rider's perspective seemed so ridiculous that I had to say something. There is no support for such a position.