[johnbryanpeters]

In another thread in P&WN, manimal made reference to "professional courtesy". I think he meant police officer to police officer and in the discussion he said that it should work police officer to firefighter.

I would like some clarification on this concept. We are all, of course, courteous to reach other, right? What extension of this concept would apply between public safety officers?

manimal, you used the term, could you expand on it?

 

[ska todd]

Roughly defined as if you blow a .10 and are a police or firefighter you can "drive home safely and sleep it off" as a "professional courtesy"...or if you smack your wife around you just get told "ok, just keep away from her the rest of the night".

-ska todd

 

[syadasti]

Or naval reserves friend uses his ID badge to receive professional courtesy for speeding.

Or chief's cards and other illegal courtesies.

 

[Serial Midget]

Balderdash! I have no respect for any person who asks for "special" treatment and even less for those who give it. I view these professional courtesies as a massive failures of morality and character.

 

[IH8Rice]

Balderdash! I have no respect for any person who asks for "special" treatment and even less for those who give it. I view these professional coutesies as a massive failure of morality and character.

i agree.

my buddy was a sheriff and got pulled out a ton of times for dui, but never got arrested cause he was part of the sheriff's department.
he even fell asleep at a green light and the cops drove him to a parking lot so his mom could pick him up and drive him home.....he later lost his job for a accident he go into while drunk.

i do wish him well though cause he's kicking ass and taking names in Iraq

 

[MMike]

i do wish him well though cause he's kicking ass and taking names in Iraq

Is he getting the correct spellings of the names?

 

[Westy]

Roughly defined as if you blow a .10 and are a police or firefighter you can "drive home safely and sleep it off" as a "professional courtesy"...or if you smack your wife around you just get told "ok, just keep away from her the rest of the night".

-ska todd

+rep

I was at a NYE eve party a few years ago and a Trooper was bragging that he could get as drunk as he wanted and drive because his boys would never arrest him.

Though I am sure this is not true of every cop every where. I'd guess 50/50 a lot less if the offender was way over legal.

 

[syadasti]

Though I am sure this is not true of every cop every where. I'd guess 50/50 a lot less if the offender was way over legal.

Or if he was black cop and committed a minor violation with the Good ol' boys looking...

Look out the LEO has a gun :huh:

 

[IH8Rice]

Is he getting the correct spellings of the names?

he's good with four letter words....mooj...haji

 

[MMike]

he's good with four letter words....mooj...haji

Yeah...that's lovely. Your friend sounds like a true american hero.

 

[IH8Rice]

Yeah...that's lovely. Your friend sounds like a true american hero.

ugh god its a joke....and i dont know anyone that served who didnt call them that.
and he's not a hero, just a good american

 

[johnbryanpeters]

ugh god its a joke....and i dont know anyone that served who didnt call them that.
and he's not a hero, just a good american

I would hope to hell that there are some who have served without getting into derogatory name calling.

 

[4xBoy]

I would hope to hell that there are some who have served without getting into derogatory name calling.

You do understand the idea of de-humanizing someone in order to make killing them easier.

In the moog shooting skinnies.

Fu--ing Krauts

Yellow man




Now I am not for the war, but I understand how to play the game.

Also I am just saying, I am not trying to be racist, and I hope I am not coming across that way.

 

[IH8Rice]

I would hope to hell that there are some who have served without getting into derogatory name calling.

theres like 5.... +-1

me...i got no problem with Iraqis......its those carni's. they smell like cabbage and i dont trust them

Yellow man

thats a new one

 

[manimal]

ok...since i started this topic with my comment i suppose i'll expound as the righteous ones on this board are already frothing (ska todd, syadasti)

when i use the term "professional courtesy" i am referring to the following:

first off, i believe, and everyone i work with has agreed with me, a DUI/DWI is not acceptable in any public service profession and there is no "professional courtesy" in that matter. you drive drunk you pay the price; an issue that was tested not long ago when a recently resigned officer was caught driving over the limit. she was arrested and processed just like anyone else and would have been even if she was still employed with us (she was an officer with a neighboring agency when arrested)

here's an example of the professional courtesy i'm talking about:

my wife was pulled over for speeding, 9 mph over the limit in a 45mph zone. i work with the officer, he recognized the last name and asked if she was my wife. my wife embarrisingly replied "yes." the officer, using his discretion, decided to let her go with a verbal warning (an enforcement action commonly used for this type of infraction) and he knew that i would lecture her about her driving when she got home.

another example:

we work with fireman, EMS and nurses on a daily basis. i know, as a cop, that if i'm seriously injured in the line of duty it will be one of these 3 professions that could save my life...so needless to say, we all treat each other with some form of reverence. I recently stopped a nurse at 2am for running a stop sign. her license was in the same pouch as her hospital ID. i asked her if she was on her way to work and she said that she was just called in for a trauma truck run for a serious patient. i decided to let her go with a verbal warning because of her minor infraction and the fact that she might be saving my life one day and giving her a $130 ticket was one of three enforcement options i had that night.

another example:

i was speeding on my way home from riding with noah. a state trooper pulled me over and, because i carry my gun with me in the car, i had to tell him that i was armed (state concealed carry law), when he asked why i was armed i told him i was a police officer. he said, "well..you should know better" and he wrote me a written warning...again, an enforcement action well within the scope of the infraction.

in reference to when i made the original "professional courtesy" comment i was speaking to the fact that the officer was being a dick to a man in one of the aformentioned professions and he should of at least given him the benefit of the doubt considering that fireman often deal with the same crap cops do.

i'm sure all of you cop haters have stories of some dirty cop that your cousin's best friend's mother heard about and how all cops are like that but, in reality, the professional courtesy is nothing more than giving the benefit of the doubt to someone in the community service family.

just to be clear, here is a list of people that i commonly will be easier on if discretion allows in reference to minor speeding and safe driving infractions. serious misdemeanors and above do not warrant any courtesy, imo. (domestic assault, DUI, theft, drugs):

-single moms/dads at the end of their wit
-anyone in the law enforcement community (cops,jailors,distric attorneys)
-spouses/kids of above (although, instead of a ticket, i'll usually call, on the spot, and notify the LEO of the infraction.
-nurses and ER doctors
-Fire/EMS personnell
-war veterans
-polite and respectful college kids (a ticket would be punishing mom/dad, not them)


or i suppose an officer's discretion could be taken away and EVERY infraction or criminal charge would receive the highest penalty for everyone.

oh yeah. ska todd and syadasti......you're welcome.

 

[IH8Rice]

and he knew that i would lecture her about her driving when she got home.

did you correccct her?

 

[manimal]

nah..but she did do the dishes!!!

joking aside; domestic assault really pisses me off.

 

[IH8Rice]

joking aside; domestic assault really pisses me off.

same here...they r dirtbags....thats when you cops should show extreme prejudice if he "resist arrest". and rapist too

 

[Serial Midget]

Uh... what about the 95% of reasonable law abiding citizens who won't have the benefit of your double standard? Your wife, pulled over for driving 9mph over the speed limit, deserved a ticket.

I am no cop hater but I am deeply troubled by your justification - to you these may seem like minor courtesies but to me it demonstrates your willingness to place yourself and your peers above the law.

No man should be above the law - all laws should be enforced equally without regard to who has committed the infraction, who the offender is married to or who the offender's parents are.

What difference does it make if you pull over a war veteran for speeding or me, someone who does not fall into any of your special treatment categories? We're both speeders - the only difference is I don't have the advantage of your prejudice.

Simple as that.

-single moms/dads at the end of their wit
-anyone in the law enforcement community (cops,jailors,distric attorneys)
-spouses/kids of above (although, instead of a ticket, i'll usually call, on the spot, and notify the LEO of the infraction.
-nurses and ER doctors
-Fire/EMS personnell
-war veterans
-polite and respectful college kids (a ticket would be punishing mom/dad, not them)

 

[sanjuro]

But in some locales, in particularly, New York City, the two departments seem to be at each others throats.

I don't know if this a story which has been blown out of proportion, but I remember at least one arrest of firemen in an incident which both departments thought they have jurisdiction.

 

[manimal]

Uh... what about the 95% of reasonable law abiding citizens who won't have the benefit of your double standard? Your wife, pulled over for driving 9mph over the speed limit, deserved a ticket.

I am no cop hater but I am deeply troubled by your justification - to you these may seem like minor courtesies but to me it demonstrates your willingness to place yourself and your peers above the law.

No man should be above the law - all laws should be enforced equally without regard to who has committed the infraction, who the offender is married to or who the offender's parents are.

What difference does it make if you pull over a war veteran for speeding or me, someone who does not fall into any of your special treatment categories? We're both speeders - the only difference is I don't have the advantage of your prejudice.

Simple as that.

you're assuming that EVERYONE ELSE would get a ticket in a similar scenario which is usually not the case. i personally don't do any traffic enforcement but on the rare occasion that i do stop someone for driving/minor infractions i do the whole verbal warning thing. some officers write everyone, some, like me, hardly write anyone. there is no such thing as a quota (illegal in most states) and every stop allows the officer to decide the best course of action. for me, that means giving an expensive ticket to a single mom will probably not correct her bad driving but instead it will probably make her have to work more hours thus having to drive fast to get to work on time......while on the other hand, a verbal warning to the bank manager will be scoffed at as soon as i leave but a reminder from the wallet will affect his driving for a longer period.

do you honestly think that if you, SM, were driving through my city and i stopped you for something minor and you recognized me and said.."hey..you're manimal...nice to finally meet you!" that i would write you a ticket? heck no i wouldn't...it's just human nature. i deal with so much serious crap that the little stuff you guys are getting all bent out of shape over really doesn't matter much to me. would you expect me to write my own mother a ticket?

 

[IH8Rice]

what do you do if youre not doing traffic enforcement?

 

[Serial Midget]

...would you expect me to write my own mother a ticket?

I suppose it's all about where you draw the line. I understand that laws are subject to interpretation but this should be decided in a court of law not on the side of a road.

As a civilian, when it comes to law enforcement, I'd feel more comfortable knowing that laws are enforced to a uniform standard.

So yeah... throw the book at your lead foot mama. :biggrin:

 

[sanjuro]

do you honestly think that if you, SM, were driving through my city and i stopped you for something minor and you recognized me and said.."hey..you're manimal...nice to finally meet you!" that i would write you a ticket? heck no i wouldn't...it's just human nature. i deal with so much serious crap that the little stuff you guys are getting all bent out of shape over really doesn't matter much to me. would you expect me to write my own mother a ticket?

Yep there is professional courtesy. At my computer job, I get free software and someone offered me a free computer if I fix his bike.

At the bike shop, I didn't have to pay for a tube.

If I was a cop, I could probably get away with 10mph over the speed limit, which I have gotten several tickets over the years and so far I have not suffered except for a few bucks.

 

[chicodude]

As a civilian, when it comes to law enforcement, I'd feel more comfortable knowing that laws are enforced to a uniform standard.

But they are not. I thought everyone knew that.

Fair is what you pay to ride the bus.

 

[DaveW]

Fair is what you pay to ride the bus.

That doesn't sound "fare" to me.
Buses should be free!
BUS POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!

 

[dante]

would you expect me to write my own mother a ticket?

Absolutely, I would!










(your mom's got a leadfoot. )

 

[JohnE]

I have done alot of traffic enforcement, and for me to write you a ticket, you have to be a dick when I approach. If you are cool, odds are slim you will get paper from me. If you are a dick, I dont care if you are a cop or porn star. As the Brits will tell you, the pen is the most dangerous weapon a cop carries. Most of the stops I make are probable cause stops, and if you come back clean off the computer, and are cool, have a nice day and keep it under Mach 2.

But I dont work the road anymore...

 

[skinny mike]

so manimal, i work at a restaurant and could one day bring you the cheeseburger that you had been desiring all day or the only beer in the world that could quench your massive thirst at that very moment, does this mean you will let me off with a warning?

 

[4xBoy]

Seriously, don't drive like a tw@t and there is no problem.

 

[manimal]

so manimal, i work at a restaurant and could one day bring you the cheeseburger that you had been desiring all day or the only beer in the world that could quench your massive thirst at that very moment, does this mean you will let me off with a warning?

yes.

 

[eric strt6]

one day while on patrol Manimal pulls over a blond in a mustang doing 20mph over the speed limit.

as he walks up to the drivers window ticket book in hand she looks at him bats her eyelashes and says

"I didn't think you gave pretty women tickets"

Manimal repied " We don't, sign here please"

 

[manimal]

one day while on patrol Manimal pulls over a blond in a mustang doing 20mph over the speed limit.

as he walks up to the drivers window ticket book in hand she looks at him bats her eyelashes and says

"I didn't think you gave pretty women tickets"

Manimal repied " We don't, sign here please"

lol...so true.

my favorite is the "my taxes pay your salary!" line. we had an officer a while back respond to that cliche by keeping 27 cents in his shirt pocket so he could give back the average amount each city resident pays to our salaries to the next douchebag that tried that line. yeah...he got complained on but it was so worth it.

 

[Greyhound]

Uh... what about the 95% of reasonable law abiding citizens who won't have the benefit of your double standard? Your wife, pulled over for driving 9mph over the speed limit, deserved a ticket.

I am no cop hater but I am deeply troubled by your justification - to you these may seem like minor courtesies but to me it demonstrates your willingness to place yourself and your peers above the law.

No man should be above the law - all laws should be enforced equally without regard to who has committed the infraction, who the offender is married to or who the offender's parents are.

What difference does it make if you pull over a war veteran for speeding or me, someone who does not fall into any of your special treatment categories? We're both speeders - the only difference is I don't have the advantage of your prejudice.

Simple as that.

wow...you know, when you try to nail yourself to the cross, it's impossible to get the third nail in.

 

[Serial Midget]

wow...you know, when you try to nail yourself to the cross, it's impossible to get the third nail in.

Go big or go home.

 

[RenegadeRick]

...all laws should be enforced equally without regard to who has committed the infraction, who the offender is married to or who the offender's parents are.

Are you new here?

America™ is the land of special rights for special people.




What? You thought all men are created equal? .

 

[manimal]

I am no cop hater but I am deeply troubled by your justification - to you these may seem like minor courtesies but to me it demonstrates your willingness to place yourself and your peers above the law.

Every time you drive one mph over the limit in the view of a cop, you get the benefit of that cop's discretion. Every time you almost stop, but not quite, at a stop sign, in view of an officer, you are being benefited by discretion. everytime you hang out in a restaurant parking lot talking with friends and there is a "no loitering" sign posted as a cop drives by and waves...you have just been a victim of discretion. I've stopped people for going 5 over and given them a ticket and i've stopped someone for going 15 over and given them a warning. the whole purpose of discretion is to allow the officer to handle the situation with a level of enforcement that he/she feels will have the most impact; in other words, to bring the human aspect into law. we could just set up cameras everywhere and mail you tickets for minor infractions, but that is law devoid discretion and would be rather draconian IMO.

 

[Serial Midget]

This thread isn't about me - its about you.

Every time you drive one mph over the limit in the view of a cop, you get the benefit of that cop's discretion. Every time you almost stop, but not quite, at a stop sign, in view of an officer, you are being benefited by discretion. everytime you hang out in a restaurant parking lot talking with friends and there is a "no loitering" sign posted as a cop drives by and waves...you have just been a victim of discretion. I've stopped people for going 5 over and given them a ticket and i've stopped someone for going 15 over and given them a warning. the whole purpose of discretion is to allow the officer to handle the situation with a level of enforcement that he/she feels will have the most impact; in other words, to bring the human aspect into law. we could just set up cameras everywhere and mail you tickets for minor infractions, but that is law devoid discretion and would be rather draconian IMO.

 

[$tinkle]

in nearly a decade in military service, i only got one ticket in uniform (25 over) & pulled over nearly a dozen times. i no longer go more than 9 over.

 

[Serial Midget]

In 26 years of driving I've been pulled over by the police 3 times & got a ticket each time.

30 in a school zone and 2 10+ over on a rural highway.

I'm a bad ass rebel.

in nearly a decade in military service, i only got one ticket in uniform (25 over) & pulled over nearly a dozen times. i no longer go more than 9 over.