Does anyone have much time on one of these. Thinking of getting it done to the rocco i have on my radical to tide me over till the end of the season while i save for a boss rear shock. I had a pushed Fox RC ages ago on an old frame and it was great. Just wondering how it changes the feel of the rocco. I tried the search function but it didn't throw up much rocco related stuff just people talking about pushed DHXs.
Pushed Roco
- Thread starter al-irl
- Start date
what does motopitkan do differently to PUSH?
im looking to do something to my roco on my Supreme DH
im looking to do something to my roco on my Supreme DH
I have been on a pushed roco since about april... It is smooth as all hell. It changed the feel quite a bit and it tracks the ground a little better now on the small chatter. It is really smooth but ramps pretty hard at the end of the travel. I have the factor race tune if it matters.
I am really enjoying my pushed roco. I only have a weekend on it but from what I can tell it matches what NJHC said above. Im really happy with the performance on the small stuff, I noticed the most significant difference there over my dhx5.
cheers for the feed back. I'm finding mine quite linear at the moment i just put a heavier spring on as i'm a fat git and i had to take off all the compression and theres still too much. It also seems to blow through the travell way to quickly on g outs. I'll be sending it to tf tuned to get the push treatment at the end of the month. Ill let you know how i get on.
IMO PUSH doesn't do anything you can't do yourself except for the bladder. Save your money and check the IFP depth first.
Well if their Roco service is similar to their Fox service they replace the compression valve with one that has larger holes and can move more oil reducing spiking. You can't do that yourself. Also, setting the IFP depth and filling/bleeding the shock after assembly is something most people would rather pay a pro to do. Their service is very reasonably priced esspecially if your shock has a season or two on it and you can figure it needs fresh oil anyway.
I have ben on a pushed ROCO the entire season, and I am very satisfied with the results. The result feels a bit like a avalanche chubie shock, but without the weight penalty. The shock track the ground heaps better, and the rebound action is greatly improved. The push upgrade have also eliminated the nasty bottoming i was experiencing on big hits. I have the factory race upgrade that replaces all of the internals including the piggyback compression piston. The shock is on a canfield jedi.
I got my shock fitted with the Push factory race upgrade. Had my first propper ride on it yesterday. Have to say there is a really noticeable difference in the ride. The bike (Sunn Radical) sits much better into corners. The back end tracks amazingly so you can take on the rough stuff with confidence that the bike will just eat it up and you will be in control the whole time. It really has transformed my bike from a bling bike that i wasn't totally happy with into something great, it does everything it did well before better and has taken away all the little things I didn't like about the ride.
Has anyone taken apart their PUSHED shock to service it? I would be interested to see photo's to get an idea of the differences.
What exactly they do? Also what's the cost of 888 and boxxer tunining and what they do?
you could buy my pushed roco, open it up, and find out!
...please.
...please.
from the bits they took out it looks like i got a different shim stack that allows more oil to pass through and get rid of the overdamped feeling of the shock. Have to give it a big thumbs up. The bike is handling so much better in every manner, I even landed 2 expert podiums in our nps series at the last 2 races. Hadn't made it near the podium with the new bike untill i got the shock sorted and the bike feeling right
Here's a picture of the replacement parts. With our Factory Race System we:
# Complete Disassmebly/Reassembly
# PUSH Vault Seal Housing maximizing sealability while reducing friction. Designed to work specifically with the ROCO Aluminum and Hard Chromed Shaft.
# PUSH VxR-F High Flow Piston
# Multi-Stage Compression and Rebound Valving tuned to application
# PUSH Endless Piston Band Glyde Ring. Combined with Vault Seal System to minimize friction increasing small bump sensitivity.
# PUSH ROOST Valve, custom tuned
# PUSH Eyelet Bearings. Replacement bearings to eliminate slop between shock and mount reducers.
# High Performance Torco Racing Shock Fluid to meet the needs of the most demanding riders.
# Nitrogen gas fill to ensure maximum consistency under even extreme use.
# Factory Suspension Decal Set
# PUSH Exclusive Factory Conical Bottoming Bumper System for increased bottoming control
All of the components are proprietary and all of the machined parts are designed, engineered, and manufactured here at PUSH.
Darren
# Complete Disassmebly/Reassembly
# PUSH Vault Seal Housing maximizing sealability while reducing friction. Designed to work specifically with the ROCO Aluminum and Hard Chromed Shaft.
# PUSH VxR-F High Flow Piston
# Multi-Stage Compression and Rebound Valving tuned to application
# PUSH Endless Piston Band Glyde Ring. Combined with Vault Seal System to minimize friction increasing small bump sensitivity.
# PUSH ROOST Valve, custom tuned
# PUSH Eyelet Bearings. Replacement bearings to eliminate slop between shock and mount reducers.
# High Performance Torco Racing Shock Fluid to meet the needs of the most demanding riders.
# Nitrogen gas fill to ensure maximum consistency under even extreme use.
# Factory Suspension Decal Set
# PUSH Exclusive Factory Conical Bottoming Bumper System for increased bottoming control
All of the components are proprietary and all of the machined parts are designed, engineered, and manufactured here at PUSH.
Darren
Attachments
talk to me more about this underdamped feeling...How do you feel a shock is unver/over damped?
as for the over damping it depends on your bike. The rocco is designed to run with bikes that have a higher leverage ratio than my sunn radical which shares a similarly low leverage ratio to that of a sunday. As a result the bike felt a little unstable at high speed when tracking over rough ground. It also didn't feel great in the corners as the bike wasn't sitting into its travell while cornering giving you a feeling of being up on the bike rather than in it. The bike also didn't have much pop off lips of jumps etc. My first problem was that my spring was too soft which ment i had to run more compression damping than i should to stop the bike g-ing out in big compressions. Once i got the correct spring move from a 300 to a 400 because im a fat git. The bike just felt dead with the 400 and that was with compression adjuster all the way off. it had no pop at all and felt even worse in the corners and on the rough high speed stuff.
Since getting the push treatment done the back wheel tracks the ground so much better its way more stable in rough high speed. You can attack off camber root sections with confidence knowing the back weel is gonna have loads of grip aslong as you stay off the brakes. The bike just feels much more planted and solid no matter what the speed. In the corners it sinks into its travell much better and now has a nice zipp out of berms and is much better in open corners. Overall it just lets me push the bike harder and gives me more confidence as i feel the bike will take anything i throw at it. As before i'd be a little cautious as i wasn't 100% on how the bike was gonna react.
I hope this helps
Since getting the push treatment done the back wheel tracks the ground so much better its way more stable in rough high speed. You can attack off camber root sections with confidence knowing the back weel is gonna have loads of grip aslong as you stay off the brakes. The bike just feels much more planted and solid no matter what the speed. In the corners it sinks into its travell much better and now has a nice zipp out of berms and is much better in open corners. Overall it just lets me push the bike harder and gives me more confidence as i feel the bike will take anything i throw at it. As before i'd be a little cautious as i wasn't 100% on how the bike was gonna react.
I hope this helps
what they exactly do, i don't know. I think the chance the shims , and the oil.
For the tuning/prices of the forks, send a mail to
info@motopitkan.at
why would the roco be designed to run with bikes with higher lev. ratio as opposed to the ones that have a lower one? In high...I would assume you mean anything over 2.8.....for that matter what would the revox,ccdb,the bos stoy and the dhx 5.0 be "better suited" for?
more importantly how is a shock designed to be high/low lev. specific?
I run a 350 lb spring and felt my bike was slowing down through rough stuff. It was overdamped for the chattery terrain. Now i can pump and flow with the trail and carry speed.
Not to speak for Darren at Push, but i believe there are a number of things that Push does to the shock.
For one the valve in the resi is a bit backward, as you turn up the damping the needle stays in the same place and the piston moves. Not that this is a bad thing, but since Darren completely guts the resi and puts in a piston and valves of his own, saying that you can do it yourself is way off.
Having him dyno the shock after the build is reassurance as well.
Not to speak for Darren at Push, but i believe there are a number of things that Push does to the shock.
For one the valve in the resi is a bit backward, as you turn up the damping the needle stays in the same place and the piston moves. Not that this is a bad thing, but since Darren completely guts the resi and puts in a piston and valves of his own, saying that you can do it yourself is way off.
Having him dyno the shock after the build is reassurance as well.
i would love to see a pic of which dyno he uses...in if fat he does use a dyno!!!!
From what i can gather the rocco is mainly sold as an oem shock. I've never really heard of that many people who bought one aftermarket. They have probably been designed with this in mind and the majority of this market would be on bikes that have a higher leverage ratio like 2.8 or higher (im thinking kona being a big customer) unlike my sunn which has a leverage ratio of about 2.6 . Its more of a setup thing than a design flaw. I have heard of people getting there roco tunned by people other than push can't think of any names right now and getting similar results to what i got.
As for other shocks being better, I don't think any off the shelf shock will nesecarilly be better a stock dhx may well suffer similar problems on my bike as it is setup with a best to suit all situations stock setting. The adjusters on the shocks don't really give all that much adjustment. I can't speak for the revox really but i know it was developed originally for use with the trek session 10 which was one of the first bikes to use a 3.5" stroke shock and would therefore be designed with low ratio bikes in mind.
The CCDB and Boss shocks are a different thing completely as they are valved and setup for the rider/bike upon your purchase. That said if you where to change it to a bike with a different leverage ratio or with a different linkage setup where the frame had a falling/rising rate design. I would imagine you would have to send it back to get it revalved to get the most from it.
My reccomendations would be to get whatever shock you have serviced and setup for your bike and yourself. It doesn't have to be pushed but if you have a good service agent that knows what there doing you will see performance advantages. I wouldn't go and buy a dhx over a rocco and think any problems will go away it will still need to be tunned to get the best of it.
The reason i went for push tunning on my shock was i knew something wasn't right with my bike. Push have a good reputation and collect alot of telemetry data from bikes and from dyno testing there products so they have a well tried and tested product. Any of there other products i have tried (talas fork upgrade) made a noticeable differance for the better. The other reason was we deal with TF Tunned in the shop where i work, they are the uk Push agents and they where hooking me up with a good price. I really can't compliment the upgrade enough. I was thinking of a Boss rear shock and thought i'd try out the push upgrade before i spent money on a shock to see if it was my frame or the shock that made my bike handle the way it did. Its really transformed the ride for the better. I don't think ill be in a rush to get the boss shock now.
wow...he went for the expensive one the roehrig
the reason i was asking it that i wanted to see which one he used to see how serious he takes the whole thing...but i'm impressed...that's 10 G's right there and with the picture/audio commentary of that link...nice
does push have any future opening for Mcgill Engineering students? lol
have you ever felt a shock that was underdamped? i would assume it would feel to harsh and spiky under hard impacts...correct me if im wrong
kinda harsh and spikey would be more a term i'd use with over damping as the shock doesn't react quick enough.
Underdamping would cause the bike to blow through its travell quickly and return quickly causing harsh bottom and top outs.It doesn't feel controled. Riding a blown shock is an extream example of an under damped shock.
My simple rule of thumb with shock setup is to run as much compression damping as feels good as it will help with pedalling but too much will make the shock feel dead and small bump sensitivity will suffer. Then i try and run as little rebound as i can. Too little and the bike will buck you forward on to the bars, too much and the bike will pack down as it can't return quick enough over sucsessive hits.
Underdamping would cause the bike to blow through its travell quickly and return quickly causing harsh bottom and top outs.It doesn't feel controled. Riding a blown shock is an extream example of an under damped shock.
My simple rule of thumb with shock setup is to run as much compression damping as feels good as it will help with pedalling but too much will make the shock feel dead and small bump sensitivity will suffer. Then i try and run as little rebound as i can. Too little and the bike will buck you forward on to the bars, too much and the bike will pack down as it can't return quick enough over sucsessive hits.
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i ride my judge with stock dhx5 a year on any conditions... now i hafe a pushed roco tst.. the push roco is so much better small chatter you do not notice, in the end off travel the roco is very progresiv for big jumps. i like it so much. best is i ride the roco on all tracks "fast tracks- rockgardens- chatter pumps- and woods" with the same rebound.
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i was in the exact same place you were over a year ago. overdamped dhx on a commencal supreme dh, similar lev ratio to your sunn.
push totally changed it, problem is (that you would soon find out) that you will soon find flaws in your front fork, and most likely change the whole set up on that.
:biggrin:
The fact that they adjust your shock depending on your lev. ratio, linkage type, weight, riding preferences etc. is pretty awesome...but i was thinking of something...I know everyone has their own opinion on this, but wouldn't each suspension manufacturer be in a better position to determine what size piston or what type of seal head to put in the shock....
Yes i know in order to attain certain characteristics the piston bore sizes must be changed, but what about the other less necessary fixes that push does how can we honesty justify that they are any better than stock setup.
Yes i know in order to attain certain characteristics the piston bore sizes must be changed, but what about the other less necessary fixes that push does how can we honesty justify that they are any better than stock setup.
..lets not forget that most of the big suspensions companys have much more money to invest in R&D and engineering research that push
It's simple. Here at PUSH we have the advantage of working with the end user of the product. Companies like FOX, Marzocchi, Rock Sox, etc. do a great job of sitting down with product managers at bike companies and coming up with a product that fits a very broad range of rider types and frame designs. Here at PUSH because we work one on one with each rider we get to select valving characteristics based on each rider and bike. For example, the rebound valving for a 300lb/in spring is widely different than a 600lb/in spring. The compression characteristic for a Sunday is widely different than a V10. Someone who uses their Demo for park riding vs. DH Racing etc, etc.
As for the other "less necessary" items, they add up to the total benefit of the product. Just simply call up your local O-ring distributor and ask for the price of an o-ring size in Buna material and then in Urethane. You'll be shocked at the cost difference. Now take that same scenario to more complex shapes such as a rod wiper design. You'll quickly see that sometimes certain decisions have to be made based on cost at the production level. It's not to say that the production part is no good, it's just that a High End Polymer Urethane may offer the same or better sealability with lower friction. Because we're not tied to production costs, we're able to explore all of the options.
Well, we've never published our R&D budgets but I can tell you that we have tremendous flexibility that isn't found at large companies that have to answer to accounting, marketing, and management groups.
Bottom Line, the products that we work on we feel are the best in the marketplace. We don't "fix" their problems, we simply work with end users to meet their expectations of how they want it to work. We also take a suspension component that has a broad range of fit and fine tune it more specifically for each individual application.
Darren
This of it this way, Chevy, Ford, Honda, and the like make some really nice out of the box stuff that have pretty high performance. But there are companies out there like Callaway, Saleen...etc that work to get the maximum performance out of the platform. Push is no different, they take something that is good to start and make it better.
Let's not forget that Darren is modest in his posts and the big suspension companies send their proto stuff to him to help them get it dialed.
Because of my Pushed shock, my fork can't keep up!
I literally buy suspension based off of what Push is offering upgrades on. Roco WC= Factory Race System with Roost Valve.
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Great reply!, thanks for clearing that up, many of my posts my seem aggressive. my apologies, no disrespect intended, but I am glad I can get the facts straight, so what is really is "buna material"?