I wasn't saying you are lame. Just the "what about alcohol" argument is lame.
It's like saying to a CHP officer, "What about the other cars that are speeding."
Random drug testing in school approved
- Thread starter I Are Baboon
- Start date
I wasn't saying you are lame. Just the "what about alcohol" argument is lame.
It's like saying to a CHP officer, "What about the other cars that are speeding."
So being impaired by pot is different than being impaired by booze, vicodin, bendryl or another depressant? By your logic I guess it's ok if we give it airline pilots then?
You are stoned.
Pot has a negative effect on judgement, slows reaction times, dulls visual acuity, and retards fine and gross motor-dexterity.
It has the same net effect on one's ability to operate a motor vehicle, machinery, or bicycle for that matter as alcohol or any other depressant.
I don't know who fed you that crap, but that's exactly what it is......crap. Sounds like BurlySurly propaganda.
That's a perfectly valid complaint. Selective enforcement is NOT a good thing, and it's one of the biggest reasons why the war on some drugs needs to stop. It leads to massive corruption of law enforcement and the judicial system.
Let me ask you a question...If Noelle Bush was black and her daddy wasn't governor of Florida, where do you think she would be right now?
"Duuuuude, [cough-cough] like I am toooootally a better driver and stuff when I am high."
Lol, whatever.
If you honestly believe that pot does not impair your senses and reactions you may be stoned right now.
FACT. Pot IS a depressant, and has the same effect on your body as OTHER depressants. FACT.
LOL, Oh my god!
One cop can only pull over one speeder at a time. It isn't selective enforcement.
The point is that the argument offered is just finger pointing.
As for Noelle Bush.....I really could care less. The wealthy and influential will always live under a different set of rules. There is nothing I can do about that so I refuse to let it cause me to lose sleep.........and it has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/
Interesting stuff from both sides of the issue, but here are a couple of gems that jumped out at me.
Cannabis link to mental illness strengthened
The link between regular cannabis use and later depression and schizophrenia has been significantly strengthened by three new studies.
The studies provide "little support" for an alternative explanation - that people with mental illnesses self-medicate with marijuana - according to Joseph Rey and Christopher Tennant of the University of Sydney, who have written an editorial on the papers in the British Medical Journal.
One of the key conclusions of the research is that people who start smoking cannabis as adolescents are at the greatest risk of later developing mental health problems. Another team calculates that eliminating cannabis use in the UK population could reduce cases of schizophrenia by 13 per cent.
Until now, say Rey and Tennant, there was "a dearth of reliable evidence" to support the idea that cannabis use could cause schizophrenia or depression. That lack of good evidence "has handicapped the development of rational public health policies," according to one of the research groups, led by George Patton at the Murdoch Children's Research Institute in Melbourne, Australia.
The works also highlights potential risks associated with using cannabis as a medicine to ease the symptoms of muscular sclerosis, for example.
Pharmacological effect
Patton's team followed over 1600 Australian school pupils aged 14 to 15 for seven years. Daily cannabis use was associated with a five-fold increased risk of depression at the age of 20. Weekly use was linked to a two-fold increase. The regular users were no more likely to have suffered from depression or anxiety at the start of the study.
The reason for the link is unclear. Social consequences of frequent cannabis use include educational failure and unemployment, which could increase the risk of depression. "However, because the risk seems confined largely to daily users, the question about a direct pharmacological effect remains," says Patton.
In separate research, a team led by Stanley Zammit at the University of Cardiff, UK, evaluated data on over 50,000 men who had been Swedish military conscripts in 1969 and1970. This group represents 97 per cent of men aged 18 to 20 in the population at that time.
The new analysis revealed a dose-dependant relationship between the frequency of cannabis use and schizophrenia. This held true in men with no psychotic symptoms before they started using cannabis, suggesting they were not self-medicating.
Genetic factors
Finally, researchers led by Terrie Moffitt at King's College London, UK, analysed comprehensive data on over 1000 people born in Dunedin, New Zealand in 1972 and 1973.
They found that people who used cannabis by age 15 were four times as likely to have a diagnosis of schizophreniform disorder (a milder version of schizophrenia) at age 26 than non-users.
But when the number of psychotic symptoms at age 11 was controlled for, this increased risk dropped to become non-significant. This suggests that people already at greater risk of later developing mental health problems are also more likely to smoke cannabis.
The total number of high quality studies on cannabis use and mental health disorders remains small, stress Rey and Tennant. And it is still not clear whether cannabis can cause these conditions in people not predisposed by genetic factors, for example, to develop them.
"The overall weight of evidence is that occasional use of cannabis has few harmful effects overall," Zammit's team writes. "Nevertheless, our results indicate a potentially serious risk to the mental health of people who use cannabis. Such risks need to be considered in the current move to liberalise and possibly legalise the use of cannabis in the UK and other countries."
Journal references: British Medical Journal (vol 325, p1195, p1199, p1212, p1183)
Emma Young
From NewScientist.com's news service, 21 November 2002
Cannabis smoking 'more harmful' than tobacco
Smoking pure marijuana is at least as harmful to lungs as smoking tobacco, a report from the British Lung Foundation concludes. And in some key ways, it may be more dangerous.
For example, the BLF's review of previous research highlights that just three marijuana joints a day causes the same damage to the lung's airways as 20 cigarettes, mainly because of the way joints are smoked.
Individually, cannabis and tobacco produce the same constituents and quantities of chemicals known to be toxic to respiratory tissue, other than nicotine, the report says. But when cannabis and tobacco are smoked together, the health effects are worse.
"These statistics will come as a surprise to many people, especially those who choose to smoke cannabis rather than tobacco in the belief it is safer for them," says Mark Britton, chairman of the BLF. A UK survey conducted earlier in 2002 found that 79 per cent of children believed cannabis to be 'safe'.
Deep breath
A key finding highlighted by the review of 90 published papers is that the amount of smoke taken into the lungs is two thirds larger if cannabis is being smoked. The smoke is also taken one third deeper into the lungs - and that smoke is held an average of four times longer before being exhaled.
"You inhale deeper and hold your breath with the smoke for longer before exhaling. This results in more poisonous carbon monoxide and tar entering into the lungs," says Helena Shovelton, BLF's chief executive.
Other points in the report include:
* Tar from cannabis cigarettes contains up to 50 per cent higher concentrations of carcinogens benzathracenes and benzpyrenes than tobacco smoke
* THC, the primary psychoactive ingredient of cannabis, decreases the function of immune system cells that help protect the lungs from infection
* The average cannabis cigarette smoked in the 1960s contained about 10 milligrams of tetrahydrocanabinol (THC), the primary psychoactive ingredient. Today, it may contain 150 mg.
"This means that the modern cannabis smoker may be exposed to greater doses of THC than in the 1960s or 1970s," says the report. "This in turn means that studies investigating the long-term effects of smoking cannabis have to be interpreted cautiously."
Mouth spray
Cannabis is the most widely consumed illegal drug in the UK. In 2000, almost 45 per cent of 16 to 29 year olds in the UK said they had used cannabis at some point.
"We are not making any policy recommendations. The aim of this report is to try to inform the public that if you do choose to smoke cannabis, be aware of the health risks," says a BLF spokeswoman.
Cannabis-based medicines could be prescribed for medical use in the UK as early as 2003, following the recent success of final-stage trials. But medicinal cannabis is supplied through a mouth spray or in tablet form.
"We have always been keen to find additional ways of administering cannabis as a medicine," says Nina Booth-Clibborn of the UK's Medicinal Cannabis Research Foundation. "It did seem that smoking would not be the best way."
Lyndon Pugh, editor of pro-cannabis magazine CC Newz, is not impressed by the report: "These allegations have been made before countless times. Lot of things are dangerous, like driving."
Emma Young
From NewScientist.com's news service, 11 November 2002
Interesting stuff from both sides of the issue, but here are a couple of gems that jumped out at me.
Cannabis link to mental illness strengthened
The link between regular cannabis use and later depression and schizophrenia has been significantly strengthened by three new studies.
The studies provide "little support" for an alternative explanation - that people with mental illnesses self-medicate with marijuana - according to Joseph Rey and Christopher Tennant of the University of Sydney, who have written an editorial on the papers in the British Medical Journal.
One of the key conclusions of the research is that people who start smoking cannabis as adolescents are at the greatest risk of later developing mental health problems. Another team calculates that eliminating cannabis use in the UK population could reduce cases of schizophrenia by 13 per cent.
Until now, say Rey and Tennant, there was "a dearth of reliable evidence" to support the idea that cannabis use could cause schizophrenia or depression. That lack of good evidence "has handicapped the development of rational public health policies," according to one of the research groups, led by George Patton at the Murdoch Children's Research Institute in Melbourne, Australia.
The works also highlights potential risks associated with using cannabis as a medicine to ease the symptoms of muscular sclerosis, for example.
Pharmacological effect
Patton's team followed over 1600 Australian school pupils aged 14 to 15 for seven years. Daily cannabis use was associated with a five-fold increased risk of depression at the age of 20. Weekly use was linked to a two-fold increase. The regular users were no more likely to have suffered from depression or anxiety at the start of the study.
The reason for the link is unclear. Social consequences of frequent cannabis use include educational failure and unemployment, which could increase the risk of depression. "However, because the risk seems confined largely to daily users, the question about a direct pharmacological effect remains," says Patton.
In separate research, a team led by Stanley Zammit at the University of Cardiff, UK, evaluated data on over 50,000 men who had been Swedish military conscripts in 1969 and1970. This group represents 97 per cent of men aged 18 to 20 in the population at that time.
The new analysis revealed a dose-dependant relationship between the frequency of cannabis use and schizophrenia. This held true in men with no psychotic symptoms before they started using cannabis, suggesting they were not self-medicating.
Genetic factors
Finally, researchers led by Terrie Moffitt at King's College London, UK, analysed comprehensive data on over 1000 people born in Dunedin, New Zealand in 1972 and 1973.
They found that people who used cannabis by age 15 were four times as likely to have a diagnosis of schizophreniform disorder (a milder version of schizophrenia) at age 26 than non-users.
But when the number of psychotic symptoms at age 11 was controlled for, this increased risk dropped to become non-significant. This suggests that people already at greater risk of later developing mental health problems are also more likely to smoke cannabis.
The total number of high quality studies on cannabis use and mental health disorders remains small, stress Rey and Tennant. And it is still not clear whether cannabis can cause these conditions in people not predisposed by genetic factors, for example, to develop them.
"The overall weight of evidence is that occasional use of cannabis has few harmful effects overall," Zammit's team writes. "Nevertheless, our results indicate a potentially serious risk to the mental health of people who use cannabis. Such risks need to be considered in the current move to liberalise and possibly legalise the use of cannabis in the UK and other countries."
Journal references: British Medical Journal (vol 325, p1195, p1199, p1212, p1183)
Emma Young
From NewScientist.com's news service, 21 November 2002
Cannabis smoking 'more harmful' than tobacco
Smoking pure marijuana is at least as harmful to lungs as smoking tobacco, a report from the British Lung Foundation concludes. And in some key ways, it may be more dangerous.
For example, the BLF's review of previous research highlights that just three marijuana joints a day causes the same damage to the lung's airways as 20 cigarettes, mainly because of the way joints are smoked.
Individually, cannabis and tobacco produce the same constituents and quantities of chemicals known to be toxic to respiratory tissue, other than nicotine, the report says. But when cannabis and tobacco are smoked together, the health effects are worse.
"These statistics will come as a surprise to many people, especially those who choose to smoke cannabis rather than tobacco in the belief it is safer for them," says Mark Britton, chairman of the BLF. A UK survey conducted earlier in 2002 found that 79 per cent of children believed cannabis to be 'safe'.
Deep breath
A key finding highlighted by the review of 90 published papers is that the amount of smoke taken into the lungs is two thirds larger if cannabis is being smoked. The smoke is also taken one third deeper into the lungs - and that smoke is held an average of four times longer before being exhaled.
"You inhale deeper and hold your breath with the smoke for longer before exhaling. This results in more poisonous carbon monoxide and tar entering into the lungs," says Helena Shovelton, BLF's chief executive.
Other points in the report include:
* Tar from cannabis cigarettes contains up to 50 per cent higher concentrations of carcinogens benzathracenes and benzpyrenes than tobacco smoke
* THC, the primary psychoactive ingredient of cannabis, decreases the function of immune system cells that help protect the lungs from infection
* The average cannabis cigarette smoked in the 1960s contained about 10 milligrams of tetrahydrocanabinol (THC), the primary psychoactive ingredient. Today, it may contain 150 mg.
"This means that the modern cannabis smoker may be exposed to greater doses of THC than in the 1960s or 1970s," says the report. "This in turn means that studies investigating the long-term effects of smoking cannabis have to be interpreted cautiously."
Mouth spray
Cannabis is the most widely consumed illegal drug in the UK. In 2000, almost 45 per cent of 16 to 29 year olds in the UK said they had used cannabis at some point.
"We are not making any policy recommendations. The aim of this report is to try to inform the public that if you do choose to smoke cannabis, be aware of the health risks," says a BLF spokeswoman.
Cannabis-based medicines could be prescribed for medical use in the UK as early as 2003, following the recent success of final-stage trials. But medicinal cannabis is supplied through a mouth spray or in tablet form.
"We have always been keen to find additional ways of administering cannabis as a medicine," says Nina Booth-Clibborn of the UK's Medicinal Cannabis Research Foundation. "It did seem that smoking would not be the best way."
Lyndon Pugh, editor of pro-cannabis magazine CC Newz, is not impressed by the report: "These allegations have been made before countless times. Lot of things are dangerous, like driving."
Emma Young
From NewScientist.com's news service, 11 November 2002
LOL I love how these threads always go way off topic...we should detect a change in argument and make a new thread for it.
Isnt it amazing how much some people love their Marijuana?
Anyone so blinded by their love for a chemical substance that they fail to admit MJ as at least a depressant is clearly sick.
I feel like something of a minority as I recognize that most of the mountain bike world smokes pot.
Sorry to those who don't want to believe it, but it has ALWAYS been the case.
I would go so far as to attribute the increased creativity to at least some of the progression that has taken place in the BC area over the last several years.
No kidding,
You'd either have to be crazy or high to attempt some of the stuff those guys are doing.
It's a little of both.
edit:
I'm sure the same was said about the original Repack racers, too.
(And I'd have the same response)
Your circle of friends smokes.
Your assertion that most bikers smoke is just too broad a generalization.
Out of all the Mt. Bikers that I know (a group of at least 50) only one smokes pot. It could be because most of us are racers and care about our bodies.
Most bikers arn't racers.
Most of the bike riders I know use some form of legal or illegal drugs.
I think it would be unfair to say that people who use drugs don't care about there bodies.
You use harmful chemicals if you think they give and advantage over not using them. It's just different people jude the risk differently and reach different conclusions.
No, my circle of freinds are bikers.
My assertion is not a generalization.
I said most mountain bikers smoke pot, and that's just the truth.
Some of the fastest riders I know are stoners (I'm talking about semi-pro and pro level XC riders):
Folks who could "smoke" all us monkeys up any hill.
I have a REALLY hard time believing that. Your anecdotal evidence hardly represents a cross section of the MTB world. Maybe we can get mtbr.com to post a poll?Originally posted by Sideways
No, my circle of freinds are bikers.
My assertion is not a generalization.
I said most mountain bikers smoke pot, and that's just the truth.
Some of the fastest riders I know are stoners (I'm talking about semi-pro and pro level XC riders):
Folks who could "smoke" all us monkeys up any hill.
Don't just take it from me.
Refer to the 2001 Bike magazine Photo Annual, page 32, fighting words column:
"Does marijuana play a valid role in the culture of mountain biking?"
http://www.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/12/30/drug.testing.ap/index.html
Just something interesting i thought id post.
Just something interesting i thought id post.
if i am being taxed for public schooling, i sure as hell want drug testing. its possible some crack-head might rip me off for cash for a rock that he can buy from joey in 3rd period in the school my taxes are funding.
man i am getting old. and hypocritical: i haved smoked on occassion, but like once a year (exactly actually since the last episode).
my private school (high-school) tested us randomly, and it was really no big deal. i never worried as i didnt have "reason too", but nobody bitched - you got nailed, well, you got nailed. they could do whatever they wanted in that privately funded school.
speaking from experience, only those who are doing drugs oppose drug testing from what i have seen.
it seems silmilar to my latest plane ride this christmas when i was bag and shoe searched. i didnt mind it - i hoped they would be so careful inspecting everything as they were me, for my safety.
i know i am getting old now haha
man i am getting old. and hypocritical: i haved smoked on occassion, but like once a year (exactly actually since the last episode).
my private school (high-school) tested us randomly, and it was really no big deal. i never worried as i didnt have "reason too", but nobody bitched - you got nailed, well, you got nailed. they could do whatever they wanted in that privately funded school.
speaking from experience, only those who are doing drugs oppose drug testing from what i have seen.
it seems silmilar to my latest plane ride this christmas when i was bag and shoe searched. i didnt mind it - i hoped they would be so careful inspecting everything as they were me, for my safety.
i know i am getting old now haha
Yeah, I saw that one earlier in the week.
Thinking back to my high school days, I would have lied for sure.
Ask the riders in the Tour de France if they use drugs. I bet 0% will SAY they do, even in an anonymous survey. The truth, I'm sure, is somewhat higher.
Thinking back to my high school days, I would have lied for sure.
ever notice that EVERYTHING has its risk? we can all die perhaps anytime on a bike, and hell, i jump out of planes too - for fun. we all drive cars. some of us eat bad food leading to heart disease. there's alcohol. motorcycles that go 175 mph. you name it. where does the arguement end? pot is MORE bad because its illegal? i say we ALL pick our poison. (i'm no pothead, i just don't harp on those that choose a different lifestyle than me. do unto others you know...)
Yeah, but why make that which is already dangerous moreso by impairing oneself with a depressant?
Before anyone says it, yeah, I drink. But after doing so I don't drive or ride. Can stoners say the same? Few can.
Before anyone says it, yeah, I drink. But after doing so I don't drive or ride. Can stoners say the same? Few can.
"Stoners"...I take that to mean people who are habitually high, the kind that wake and bake every day. Put them in the same category as alcoholics, who need a drink to get going in the morning. How many of them drive drunk?
You're going worst case again and completely ignoring the majority. Most of the people I know who smoke pot don't do so on a regular basis. My experience (granted, yours may differ, but this is another viewpoint) is that people who smoke marijuana are very much like people who drink alcohol in their consumption habits.
You're going worst case again and completely ignoring the majority. Most of the people I know who smoke pot don't do so on a regular basis. My experience (granted, yours may differ, but this is another viewpoint) is that people who smoke marijuana are very much like people who drink alcohol in their consumption habits.
Driving high is nothing like driving drunk.
Pot is not a depressant.
You know not a thing about the effects of marijuana, so don't even bother.
I'd rather stop at a green light than go through a red light.
Id rather you didnt drive intoxicated no matter what the substance.
That means no morning coffee before heading to work, mrbigisbudgood!
I dont partake, but still oppose the testing for all but safety related reasons. Im subject to random screening at my primary job and weekend play job. I dont see the need for the screenings at either. Fortunately my primary job manages their program fairly professionally, unlike the second job where it is a total joke and any half assed labor lawyer would have a gold mine if somebody pushed the issue.
Still oppose the asinine airport searches even after 9-11. (people sneak all sorts of sh*t into maximum security prisons, so clearly we need to make airport searches even more invasive than cavity searches from prison ..)
Still oppose the asinine airport searches even after 9-11. (people sneak all sorts of sh*t into maximum security prisons, so clearly we need to make airport searches even more invasive than cavity searches from prison ..)
I drink coffee so rarely, I get a superpsychobuzz when I do. I turn into cornholio.
ah i agree, they ad up to stupidity.. i was looking at it alone. besides how many people with drugs as a defined hobby in their life are good riding? not too many!
LMAO!!! this is good if you know what it means... bingo mrbigisbudgood!
Nah...there really aren't many skilled riders out of BC.
ouch haha!
Whatever Marshall.
You know it impairs judgement.
You know it dulls reactions.
You know it dulls visual acuity.
You know it impairs physical co-ordination.
The best mountain bikers I know are complete stoners.
Mountain biking, a prime example of something that requires precise judgement, quick reaction, excellant visual acuity, and absolute physical co-ordination.
So you are wrong.
Impossible.
Marijuana impairs.
Those same riders simply would ride better when not impaired.