[chrismac]

Anyone have the new Rav4? It's getting some great reviews.

Anyone driving an older one?

My mom has a brand new one, ive driven it a couple times. It is nice overall, fit and finish excellent, sturdy, and its a toyota.. which means it'll go forever with few problems.

It is sort of 'generic' in my opinion. the automatic and driving (suspension) feel is really bland compared to a subaru (my impreza). the all wheel drive is also quite different; the rav4 pretty much drives in front wheel drive at all times, the rear wheels will kick in only when the front differential senses the front wheels slipping. It does have a manual 'locker' which engaes all four wheels simultaneously, but will pop out of this back into the auto mode at 15-20 mph. The subaru claims to have equal traction to all four wheels at ALL times, however i feel like my impreza is front wheel biased (maybe 60/40), but that may just be the understeer talking.

do note my first comment; my "mom" has one. if you want something to handle snow and gritty conditions better, go with the suby; they are qutie capable in adverse conditions. if you want a softer, weather capable, mini-suv, soccer mom-ish ride, go with the rav or a crv.

i think all the rides you are looking at recommended here will suit you fine.

 

[Sandwich]

So you're also saying the mechanical AWD on Subaru's offerings are better than the electronics on the rest of the market? I thought the Rav4 was mechanical AWD?

Don't know what the toyota has, but mechanical is far advantageous in terms of driving performance compared to an electronic, unless you're talking intelligent diffs that run 60$k and are only found on rally cars.

Electric diffs are basically front wheel drive cars that can divert UP TO 50% of the power to the rear wheel if the front wheels are slipping. This is fine for casual drivers but it sucks in the snow and under any aggressive driving conditions (turning, avoiding accidents, rain, not just racer-b0i driving).

Mechanical (LSD, torSen, open) diffs are superior in that they can transfer up to 100% to either end, then, depending on the diff, 100% to any wheel. Subarus generally use an LSD in the center and rear, but it always depends on the year.

Generally speaking, Audi's longitudinal awd system is the best (torsen, locker, open) outside of the Mitsu evo (torsen, torsen, torsen).

I highly recommend avoiding "psuedo" awd systems. If snow is a concern, get something with a locker or a limited slip.

If used is an option, classic audi wagons can be cheap and fun (25mpg, 200hp 225ftlbtq, torsen center locker rear).

 

[bluebug32]

I saw one at a stealership, its much bigger than an outback wagon. I think it has something like 73 cu ft. storage - among the highest in its segment. Still has the stupid spare tire on the rear. A hitch rack (T2, Hookup, Cycle-on, etc) is much better than a spare tire mount - I don't know what the guy earlier in the thread is talking about

They look small from the outside. I guess if you fold down the rear seats. I just don't see how this could be larger than an outback.

 

[Toshi]

They look small from the outside. I guess if you fold down the rear seats. I just don't see how this could be larger than an outback.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=108153/pageId=66988
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/subaru/outback/100773426/specs.html

outback - Maximum Cargo Capacity: 65 cu. ft.
new rav4 - Maximum Cargo Volume (rear seats down) 73.0 cubic feet

 

[bluebug32]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=108153/pageId=66988
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/subaru/outback/100773426/specs.html

outback - Maximum Cargo Capacity: 65 cu. ft.
new rav4 - Maximum Cargo Volume (rear seats down) 73.0 cubic feet

so the outback is 65 rear seats up?

 

[syadasti]

Yes, Toshi is correct.

The new RAV4 and Outlander both have greater cargo, overall footprint volume, and weight.

Outback Outlander RAV4
Max. Cargo Capacity 65 cu. ft. 73 cu. ft. 73 cu. ft.

Exterior Outback Outlander RAV4
Length 188.7 in. 182.7 in. 181.1 in.
Width 69.7 in. 70.9 in. 71.5 in.
Height 63.2 in. 66.1 in. 66.3 in.
Weight 3610 lbs. 3791 lbs. 3675 lbs.
Wheel Base 105.1 in. 105.1 in. 104.7 in.
Ground Clearance(unladen) 8.4 in. 8.5 in. 7.5 in.

 

[syadasti]

so the outback is 65 rear seats up?

No 33.5 cu. ft. with the seats up.

 

[bluebug32]

No 33.5 cu. ft. with the seats up.

Interesting that it's actually larger. I guess I'm judging by Rob's outback (the last generation) that's like a bowling alley inside.

The previous Rav4s are smaller than the newer ones though I believe.

 

[syadasti]

Interesting that it's actually larger. I guess I'm judging by Rob's outback (the last generation) that's like a bowling alley inside.

The previous Rav4s are smaller than the newer ones though I believe.

The new RAV4 is completely redesigned, it has nothing to do with the old one and its bigger than the current Outback.

RAV4 with 2nd row up - 37.2
Outback with 2nd row up - 33.5

 

[stosh]

I'm voting for the RAV 4 but you and I have already had this convo.

 

[Total Heckler]

I'm in the research phase of buying a new vehicle and I've found the best reviews are from people who actually own them. Here's the criteria thus far:

- Must be AWD or 4-wheel and good in snow
- Get at least 20mpg (4 cylinder is fine)
- Be able to fit a bike in the hatchback. I would also like a hitchrack. I'm single and don't plan on having kids anytime soon, so room for the bike is a must. Other than bike trips on the weekend, this will mainly be a commuter car.
- Doesn't have to be new

Tell me what you like and don't like! I plan to start test driving soon.

So far, I've got my eye on the new generation Subaru Outback and the Toyota Rav4.

Audi A4 Avant. I have a 1999.5 1.8T motor. I get anywhere from 20-30mph depending on city or highway driving. I have a bike rack for it right now and i can fit 4 bikes on top and fit 4 passengers and another bike (taken apart) in the trunk area. You can also fold down the rear seats and have a ton of room for whatever. I am so happy with this car.

Its also Quattro. Yum.

 

[stevew]

unimog.

fvck mileage.

 

[Sandwich]

Audi A4 Avant. I have a 1999.5 1.8T motor. I get anywhere from 20-30mph depending on city or highway driving. I have a bike rack for it right now and i can fit 4 bikes on top and fit 4 passengers and another bike (taken apart) in the trunk area. You can also fold down the rear seats and have a ton of room for whatever. I am so happy with this car.

Its also Quattro. Yum.

I like it when people who don't own audi's complain about their reliability...anyways, the 1.8t is one of the best engines built, and the a4 chassis is relatively stout. It's always the goofy sh.t that goes wrong on those cars...like heated mirrors or auto-dimming rear-view...which you don't/can't get on a subaru, etc. The 2.8 a6 wagon is a pretty decent car as well, my roomate owns the sedan and is very pleased with it. Learn a thing or two and be able to tell the difference between a junker owned by a careless owner and somebody who actually maintained his car...

 

[SkaredShtles]

I like it when people who don't own audi's complain about their reliability...anyways, the 1.8t is one of the best engines built, and the a4 chassis is relatively stout. It's always the goofy sh.t that goes wrong on those cars...like heated mirrors or auto-dimming rear-view...which you don't/can't get on a subaru, etc.

Yeah - major mechanicals on my old Audi were rock solid. It's *always* the niggling bull$hit that plagues them. If you can put up with that crap they're really good cars.

Oh - and my '97 Outback has heated mirrors. And they still work.

 

[Sandwich]

Oh - and my '97 Outback has heated mirrors. And they still work.

damned japanese I'd never turn down or put down a subaru, they are super nice cars...it's just that audis are a little nicer when properly maintained.

resale value is much lower on audis, so you can pick up a 6-9 year old car for under 10k in good shape. subarus do tend to hold their value pretty well.

 

[SkaredShtles]

damned japanese I'd never turn down or put down a subaru, they are super nice cars...it's just that audis are a little nicer when properly maintained.

Yeah - but you'd better be willing to do your own work or the broken door handles, failed windows, crazy brake/taillight stuff will send you into the poorhouse...

One thing I do miss is Audi's superior AWD system. It was better than my Subaru's.

resale value is much lower on audis, so you can pick up a 6-9 year old car for under 10k in good shape. subarus do tend to hold their value pretty well.

Yep - I bought my 4000Q for $3500 and drove it for 4 years and probably put almost 100K on it. I'd guess it had 225K when it finally died. Of course, the odometer didn't work, so I couldn't be sure.

 

[Sandwich]

LOL, my Q coupe's odometer never really worked....and when it did the speedo was off by 5 percent so I couldn't pay attention to it, but that was a 1983 car....

Those 5 cyllinders go forever, I'm looking at one with 265k mi on it...an UrS6 sedan.

 

[robdamanii]

What advantages does a hitch rack have over a spare tire rack besides being able to hold four bikes? Every hitch mount I have seen has a little play in it allowing the whole thing to bounce around. Plus you can't open the back with the bikes attached. The ones that swing away have even more play, cost, and bulky, ugly arms. Plus, even when there are no bikes on it, it is always in the way. Sure you can remove it but that is a pain as well. I leave my rack on all year. Plus, hitch racks are much more expensive than tire racks even without the expensive hitch.

And they're much sturdier.

Spare tires on the back of a vehicle are a serious pain in the ass. Having a hitch is VERY useful in many ways besides carrying a bike rack. The fold down racks have NO other arms (the swing away ones do) sticking out of them and function quite well. As for taking them off, it takes more effort to take a bike off a rack than remove a hitch mount rack from the car. Waa waa waa.

When you can spend less than 2 bills for the rack, that's pretty enticing.

 

[robdamanii]

*snip*like heated mirrors or auto-dimming rear-view...which you don't/can't get on a subaru, etc.*snip*

So I guess my Outback doesn't have heated mirrors or auto-dimming rearview? Funny, I KNOW I have heated side mirrors and the auto dimming mirror is certainly an option.

I'm just saying.

And for the record, I know she's looking for new or very gently used (read - no more than a year or two old) vehicle.

 

[narlus]

resale value is much lower on audis, so you can pick up a 6-9 year old car for under 10k in good shape. subarus do tend to hold their value pretty well.

who would spend 10K on an 8 year old car which has been through the ravages of new england winters?

 

[bluebug32]

I've never really considered Audi...interesting. How are they gas-wise. Throw me a #

 

[SkaredShtles]

who would spend 10K on an 8 year old car which has been through the ravages of new england winters?

A crazy person!

 

[robdamanii]

I've never really considered Audi...interesting. How are they gas-wise. Throw me a #

Starting at around 32Gs. Going to be a pricey option. And you certainly don't want leather for a more utility oriented vehicle. Shows 22 MPG urban, which means about 19 with the overpublishing of mileage.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Starting at around 32Gs. Going to be a pricey option. And you certainly don't want leather for a more utility oriented vehicle.

Leather's easier to clean than cloth.

 

[robdamanii]

Leather's easier to clean than cloth.

Also more expensive, freezing cold in the winter, boiling hot in the summer, and much easier to mar the look of it. Besides, who's spilling crap in their car if they don't have kids?

Or...there's rubber cargo mats for the back of the vehicle too.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Also more expensive, freezing cold in the winter, boiling hot in the summer, and much easier to mar the look of it.

Well, yeah - but they're easier to clean.

You're starting to sound alot like a penny-pinching tightwad...

NTTAWWT.

 

[robdamanii]

Well, yeah - but they're easier to clean.

You're starting to sound alot like a penny-pinching tightwad...

NTTAWWT.

Me? Penny pinching?

Well, yeah. I'll be penny pinching until I hit 50 and buy an expensive sports car or something.

 

[Total Heckler]

I payed $13k for my 1999.5 about 2 years ago with 60k on the clock.

I use premium gas in mine and I pay about $40-$50 a tank. I fill up about once a week doing 300+ miles each tank.

I love the car, and its worth it to me. You could get away using cheaper gas, but I'm just fine with what I'm paying for.

 

[narlus]

one question, which may have already been answered.

why are you set on a hatchback?

if you've got a hitchrack, you don't have to worry about stowing yr bike in the car. but in a pinch, you can fold down the rear seats and toss the bike in via the trunk. my giant DH has fit inside my honda civic.

i had an outback before the honda, and the civic has been able to carry any and all bike-related gear that the subie did.


granted, this does nothing to address the AWD/4WD requirement.

 

[firemandivi]

Hyundai Tuscon 4wd 20/26mpg = $20k
Hyundai Santa Fe 4wd 21/26mpg = $21k

You need to test ride all of these cars.
Then when you pick one out, come talk and we'll tell you how to get the best price

 

[robdamanii]

How? Sure if you have a tailgate or a hatch it is an extra step to swing away the tire but with my CRV it is attached to the swing door (which is awesome. The storage bins in the door are really handy.) so it is not a problem. And I would rather have a full size spare with matching allow wheel than one of those tiny donut spares which you can't go over 50mph with.

I RARELY see any hitches used for anything other than racks and towing. Oh wait, I've seen people put little propellers in them.

The fold down racks allow you to open the door but still obstruct the opening.

But then you have to make room for it in your garage. And its still an extra step that can be avoided.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

1: Most vehicles nowadays come with full size spares in the size we're talking about, so it's not really an issue.

2: I'm talking about towing, which is certainly a valuable capability.

3: Um...if you're going to be loading something, you'd have removed the rack in the first place so again...moot point?

4: She's got no garage, but had a huge shed, so that's again, a non-issue.

5: Agree to disagree. I agree. Unless you disagree.

 

[Toshi]

I RARELY see any hitches used for anything other than racks and towing. Oh wait, I've seen people put little propellers in them.

don't forget the car nutz!

 

[robdamanii]

don't forget the car nutz!

What is it about those things that's nearly hypnotic? Get stuck behind a truck with those and it's like a bloody accident; you just can't look away.

 

[bluebug32]

To bring things back...

-I'm looking for low mileage before year, but I'd prefer to stay within the last 5 years. Unless I get a hell of a good deal on something new, I have no problem with going used or Certified Used.

- I don't care about leather. Keyless entry, heated mirrors, cruise control and I'm a happy camper.

- Narlus, I get what you're saying about not just looking at hatchback. I drive an old Corolla right now and had an f'ing huge Taurus previous to that. I'm all about simple is best, but I think because of where I live and because all my family is a good drive away, I have to opt for the 4wd or Awd.

- And, what's the deal with Hundai. Are they any good? (anyone other than divi? )

 

[robdamanii]

Hyundais are better than they used to be, but I'd still say Toyota, Subaru and Honda beat their quality hands down.

 

[Sandwich]

I've never really considered Audi...interesting. How are they gas-wise. Throw me a #

my roomate paid 16k for his 2001 A6 two or three years ago. It gets something like 25mpg on the highway and 15-18 on the street. I'll ask him again to see what he says, but I remember the numbers being in that ballpark. This is a 2.8 sedan, which isn't exactly a performance engine, but isn't a slug either. It had 65 or 85 when he bought it, I can't remember which. He sunk some money into the suspension and brakes (brakes are something that need attention on every car) but hasn't had any major issues. The only problem with it now is that I broke the visor clip and the auto-dim rearview doesn't work.

I hated the one toyota that I owned, it was the worst car I've ever been in.

Hyundai is trying to build up a brand image so their cars have come a very very long way. If you need to go new they're a good way to go. I still say a CPO from a better brand is the best option.

 

[jdcamb]

I have owned 3 Hondas (1 currently) and 2 Toyotas and have had only problems (self induced) with the Tacoma (4wdTRD). So between the 2 manufacturers I have had zero reliability issues with either make. I beat the piss out of every vehicle I have ever owned. I beat the piss out of a RAV4 for a about a week (The V6 edition) as a rental. It was a capable vehicle IMO. I would own one. It was nice actually....

 

[firemandivi]

Hyundais are better than they used to be, but I'd still say Toyota, Subaru and Honda beat their quality hands down.

I agree, but for the price they are pretty attractive. I hope to get a Honda next myself

 

[bluebug32]

I agree, but for the price they are pretty attractive. I hope to get a Honda next myself

ARe you getting a new car or is Veronica?

What kind of Honda?

pensupnewcanofworms:

 

[robdamanii]

I agree, but for the price they are pretty attractive. I hope to get a Honda next myself

I'm still attracted to Subaru. Seems to be the best bang for the buck for this type of lifestyle. I'm not sure I can bring myself to ever buy a different vehicle (unless it's a sports car).