Awesome. welcome to the forum!
Sam Hill's 2009 Demo ? Race Bike...
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
Fair enough, but I just don't think the Demo has gotten such mixed reviews. The geometry was always a little funky (from the 9 to the 8 to the 8 II, which I think finally was pretty raceable), but I've never heard anyone complain about stiffness, strength, weight, or suspension performance. That being the case, why wouldn't they stick with the same basic design and tweak the geo?
personally (having no experience in the business) i think the 'demo' name is holding back people thinking the demo series (as it is now) is a full race bike
i think when people hear demo they think of the old trains what were called the demo9/8 rather then the pretty nice machines they have now
Exactly what I see too, as soon as you tell people you have a demo or ask somebody about it. They automatically think 'Bender Bike'.
Jason; Welcome to the forum and thanks for clearing things up.
I guess I am one of the people who don't want it to change, maybe it is because I just bought mine, but a reason is a reason. Oh and that I absolutely love the way it feels so far...
Nice job on the bike
A few of us race on Demo 7's due to the 1.5" HT options. Most of the geometry is blurred between the Demo 7 and 8 when running a DC fork and taller bottom headset cup. 7.7" of travel without the rear shock travel limiter is plenty of travel for me.
10 of us on the team are racing on a mix of Demo 7's and Demo 8's this season. No, we are not sponsored by Specialized.
10 of us on the team are racing on a mix of Demo 7's and Demo 8's this season. No, we are not sponsored by Specialized.
You just reminded me, the Sam Hill Demo will have 8.0 in travel. The '09 bike had 8.4 in. With the super low BB you want to sit a bit higher in the travel and more than 8 inches becomes a little too much.
JC
Simply adding the world cup moniker might be sufficient. Demo 8 WC or Demo WC. Having a world cup team now justifies the usage.
I think Hill riding the demo for 09 will have a very positive effect for the name of the Demo and these misunderstanding will settle down.
Just add an "n" to the end of Demo and you have a whole new flavor.
DEMON - I like that.
Sam Hill is an American English slang phrase, a euphemism for "the devil" or "hell" personified - Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Hill_(euphemism)
i belive it will happen this year !
as for the bike , can you tell us what is your take on adj frames (head tube sleeves ,bb hight ,wb) ?
it seems alot of companies are going in that direction ,any chance you guys will go there?
another thing, will they have a diff paintjob ? the current one is pretty ..... (the one you did for ibike was amazing imo)
as for the bike , can you tell us what is your take on adj frames (head tube sleeves ,bb hight ,wb) ?
it seems alot of companies are going in that direction ,any chance you guys will go there?
another thing, will they have a diff paintjob ? the current one is pretty ..... (the one you did for ibike was amazing imo)
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Au contraire, it's actually SRAM that has the whack terminology.
Shimano uses the following:
SGS - Long Cage
GS - Medium Cage
SS - Short Cage
SRAM decided to label the same sizes Long, Medium, Super Short for some stupid reason. For interest's sake, SRAM's "Super Short" is actually still marginally longer than Shimano's SS cage.
Don't confuse Shimano's model suffixes for acronyms, for example RD-M810-SS means M810 (Saint) rear derailleur, short cage. The SS is not an acronym for super short in the shimano lineup.
/nerd lecture of the day
Huh... did not know that.
I always thought the "SS" in Shimano lingo meant "Super Short"...
Thanks for the info Udi!
I always thought the "SS" in Shimano lingo meant "Super Short"...
Thanks for the info Udi!
I like the sound of the Demo World Cup. Taking it a step further, why not produce a special race bike based off of the Demo design, like what Rocky Mountain did for Sabrina Jonnier? Keep the Demo 8 more or less the way it is, as "freeriders" seem to like it, and make one specific to racing, even if it is similar design-wise. I think this would go over better than simply changing over the old line to new specs/small changes.
I really like the sound of DEMON. And the meaning behind Sam Hill just makes it so much better.
Adding World Cup just sounds like they would be following in the footsteps of IH ranking system.
Oh and one request, get rid of the number system. I can't count pass one and it confuses me. No but seriously, if each level had a different suffix other than I or II I think it would be better. It seems the gravity line is all specialized uses it for, and I think you should just get rid of it entirely.
Just my 0.02
Adding World Cup just sounds like they would be following in the footsteps of IH ranking system.
Oh and one request, get rid of the number system. I can't count pass one and it confuses me. No but seriously, if each level had a different suffix other than I or II I think it would be better. It seems the gravity line is all specialized uses it for, and I think you should just get rid of it entirely.
Just my 0.02
Yep, a DH and FR version makes total sense. I did see the special flatline. Is Rocky going to start selling a different Flatline version? I was on the site and couldn't find it.
The Demo 8 is the DH rig.
The Demo 7 is the Freeride rig.
At least that was always our intention. Perhaps that didn't get communicated too clearly. I think many freeriders went with the Demo 8 because it had more travel? I'm not totally sure how the platforms were misunderstood.
JC
Oh and to add to my post to delete the number I and II system. If you are in thhe market for a new name. Call the now 7 and 8 two completely different names. This would make sense given the problem above.
Yeah Demo 8 and Demo 7 does the trick but for those that need a little more direction you could go something like Demo DH8 and Demo FR7 perhaps?
The newer Demo's are race bikes. Anybody who is too lazy to look at the geometry or ride one is probably not gonna buy one. Changing the name isn't gonna help that. Having Hill ride one will open up all the dumb pinkbike kids eyes who are too lazy to actually look it up. I don't think a name change is necessary.
The bike looks sick, and rides sick too. Sigh, I'm finally coming around on the specialized bandwagon. I've always been a hater, but now that I got friends working there, and with the demo and SXT and SX such sick bikes, its hard for me to hate them that much. I guess it had to happen eventually
The brain still and always will suck balls though.
The bike looks sick, and rides sick too. Sigh, I'm finally coming around on the specialized bandwagon. I've always been a hater, but now that I got friends working there, and with the demo and SXT and SX such sick bikes, its hard for me to hate them that much. I guess it had to happen eventually
The brain still and always will suck balls though.
I got a 7 over the 8 two years ago because A) wanted a 1.5 steerer B) less travel C) same geometry and was supposedly lighter??? and D) could get it for way less.
anyone who says a demo is not a race rig is high. My previous bikes were a M3- hated it, Sinister R9- loved it, and a yeti dh9- loved it. Those three bikes are all top of the line, slack, low, race bikes and the demo is just as badass if not more than all of them. The third day I rode mine, MH and I were ripping runs at whistler all day and watching his bike track through the rough was insane. Frame is so stiff and the suspension feels amazing and makes me wonder how much better it would be without the pos dhx.
Finally people are starting to realize its not a "heavy" hucking freeride bike.
Any info on the new Specialized proto tire, that is being made for Sam? Thread design - maybe spiked tire, as Clutch and Chunder tires work very well and no DH mud tires from Spec yet. He is supposed to get them at the SA World cup.
it works like that: Sam will take a wetscream and a big black marker = Spec Mudtire
I wonder how many monkeys know that Hill has previously won an Australia Red Bull Freeriding event back here in Oz?I hear that Hill's entering the rampage later this year
He beat Gracia, Shaums March and a bunch of pro "free-riders" (oxymoron or what) at the Jindabyne Red Bull Challenge.
this what i kinda did to my Demo 7 last year. i machined some shock shuttles(shorter ones) to squeeze the shock further inside the bike. this way i could put in a 222 mm i2i shock, and still low down the BB abit. a mere 4mm but
running a 222 mm shock let me run more sag and my bike was closer to the ground. i used a Rocco shock wich is way better than the DHX(i won't get into suspension setup) and is a little more progressive.
i also have the small Demo 7 and for my hight i think is perfect i'm 177 cm tall. Very nimble and docile. Great on the tech stuff. No bike i had comes close to it.
the WB is longer than most bikes out there wich is a plus. the only thing that i'm not fond of is the short chainstays. before my modification i felt the bike a bit sketchy on high speed and found it a bit difficult to corner on flat terrain with no berms. the rear end skidded quite often and i was thrown away a few times off the bike.
All in all the Demo is a bike that i enjoy. Love all the engineering put in this bike. i love the geometry of the bike as a freeride bike. as race race bike i had to do some things to it that voided my warranty but i didn't care at all. i took my chances and pretty much made a great bike better(for me at least).
Anyway looking at Sam's bike i see a weapon. Hope he does good this year.
I am not a Sam Hill fan. I am a Specialized fan.
running a 222 mm shock let me run more sag and my bike was closer to the ground. i used a Rocco shock wich is way better than the DHX(i won't get into suspension setup) and is a little more progressive.
i also have the small Demo 7 and for my hight i think is perfect i'm 177 cm tall. Very nimble and docile. Great on the tech stuff. No bike i had comes close to it.
the WB is longer than most bikes out there wich is a plus. the only thing that i'm not fond of is the short chainstays. before my modification i felt the bike a bit sketchy on high speed and found it a bit difficult to corner on flat terrain with no berms. the rear end skidded quite often and i was thrown away a few times off the bike.
All in all the Demo is a bike that i enjoy. Love all the engineering put in this bike. i love the geometry of the bike as a freeride bike. as race race bike i had to do some things to it that voided my warranty but i didn't care at all. i took my chances and pretty much made a great bike better(for me at least).
Anyway looking at Sam's bike i see a weapon. Hope he does good this year.
I am not a Sam Hill fan. I am a Specialized fan.
Well ok but I never would have purchased an Iron Horse either. Consider that my DH bike (first one at that) is an Orange 222 and you'll see where I'm coming from. And FYI I did have a Giant Trance which also had a few too many bearings for my liking.How many extra pivot bearings do you think it has over any other fourbar suspension????????lthumbsdown:
Granted these things aren't an issue if you are a racer though. I was just putting my 2c in, doesn't mean I'm against the design, just prefer simpler looking and simpler to maintain and hoping the Demo goes in that direction, if not well I'm sure it won't matter to most people.
Yeah an it was on a it was on an Intense M1 which is what he rode with limited support from Intense an won his 1st of 2 jnr world champs on
oh an my last post was a bit tounge n cheek
Well, you could name it after me...:biggrin:
Anyhow, does this mean we won't have a new design in 2010 that follows the progression of the SXT, Bighit, or rockered like an Enduro? No? Ha, all the E-experts were wrong again.
yeah i remember that, the one with 3 different heights to launch off the one drop. IIRC he was only 17 or something at the time?
i say keep the name. to me, a name change calls for a major design change, and from what i've read here, the product will essentially remain the same at its core. it'll be a new and improved demo, but still a demo.
i think, however, that you should update the name to signify that this is sam's bike. you definitely should use sam's name, fame, and popularity to your advantage. demo 8 sam hill edition? how's that for creativity and subtlety? sorry, my creative juices have been sucked dry as of late. at least, if your future customers are not aware that the demo is a race bike, this would surely rectify that.
just curious, why did you (specialized) name the bike "demo"? i've always wondered. thanks.
Jason, Can you get into the wheelpath at all on the new vs old bikes?
It seems that it would be good to keep the linkage arrangement the way it was and lower the BB by putting the BB shell lower and keeping the pivots where they were. I know that would require much more change, and maybe a 2nd gen version would/could be just that.
Thanks for the entertaining info on my lunch break!
Krispy
It seems that it would be good to keep the linkage arrangement the way it was and lower the BB by putting the BB shell lower and keeping the pivots where they were. I know that would require much more change, and maybe a 2nd gen version would/could be just that.
Thanks for the entertaining info on my lunch break!
Krispy
The wheelpath is the same. We didn't just lower the BB by compressing the suspension. Linkage and pivot points were adjusted to compensate.
Jason C