Santa Cruz V10 head angle
- Thread starter tfree120
- Start date
same thing goes for the 14,8 high bb, when on top, it comes down with the sag
yes but most people don't run 40%, or have 10 inches of travel.
But for the most part I agree, It could stand to be slacker.
It's still steep for DH. Peaty's V10 is slacker than production versions.
I don't think so.
67 is just perfect, very manoubrable and yet stable at speed.
my dh bike got a 67 degree ha too.
I'm not fully convinced by the uneven sag (front to rear) required for correct V-10 set-up.
What happens to the head angle when the front brake is loaded on sustained steep sections and the rear is unweighted ? In these instances it must have by far the steepest head angle of and DH specific bike.
It obviously works though. It's been reasonably successful hasn't it !
What happens to the head angle when the front brake is loaded on sustained steep sections and the rear is unweighted ? In these instances it must have by far the steepest head angle of and DH specific bike.
It obviously works though. It's been reasonably successful hasn't it !
Not sure if you're arguing about Peaty's bike, or simply voicing your h/a preferences. In either case:
Yes, Peaty does in fact use a slacker than production V10.
or
If your bike has a 67 deg h/a, it is likely
a. Not a downhill frame.
b. An older downhill frame.
c. A downhill frame with a smaller than intended fork.
All of which are perfectly ok with me.
well on my v10 i lowered the stactions as much as possible which slackens the head angle alot and if you watch the santacruz video on their site you will notice that minnar and rennie lower their stantions as much as possible...
i have been on my v10 for 2 months and love it handled great at plattekill and diablo..i had my doubts in the begining and asked all these questions so dont worry i actually think the v10 feels better than my sunday and i rode my sunday for 3 seasons, thought i was really gonna miss it...
i have been on my v10 for 2 months and love it handled great at plattekill and diablo..i had my doubts in the begining and asked all these questions so dont worry i actually think the v10 feels better than my sunday and i rode my sunday for 3 seasons, thought i was really gonna miss it...
True but the fork will still settle into a lower position no ?
If you're talking about adjusting the ride height on the fork......lowering the stanchions STEEPENS the head angle, FYI
And then you get the m6, super slack and low but the same travel.
Minnaar isnt running a stock frame, I was speaking to his mom toward the beginning of the season while is was taking a look at it and giving it the quick parking lot test at his shop and she said it wasnt stock.
Minnaar isnt running a stock frame, I was speaking to his mom toward the beginning of the season while is was taking a look at it and giving it the quick parking lot test at his shop and she said it wasnt stock.
So he was either lying in the latest issue of Dirt or his mum was hmmmm........
or Dirt misquoted him? Could be any one of those, but i dont think it really matters here. Its a great bike and really worth getting.
Quoting the dirt mag
"Is it a production bike?
My bike is bog standard. Size large"
Does not look mis-quoted to me...
If Minaars is stock, then it's gonna be too much bike for 95% of riders. Shame, i was gonna buy one.
lowering the CROWNS steepens, raising the legs steepens.....now invert.
words, so tricky.
Maybe he is on a stock FRAME, but with some bling parts. Then both are right.
back before the full custom frame in '07, Hill was on a box stock medium Sunday . . . with some nifty, custom e13 reducer cups to give it a slacker head angle.
truth of the matter is, it doesn't really matter if it's custom or not. every bike made has slightly different geometry from the rest, ad in preference for bar height, suspension sag, compression settings, bar/stem height, etc. when it comes down to it everyone has a custom bike as no 2 are really the same, and certainly no 2 from different manufacturers is the same once you get rolling.
Santa cruz is a great example: 4 extremely talented wc racers, 4 different riding styles, and 4 different bike set-ups. might be all the same on paper, but not on the track.
Have you been to a WC track? Actualy pros modern bike dont differ from production rigs that much in other cases but in HA they do.
Ie. In newest dirt mag there was Gee's bike with HA settings between 61 and 63 instead of 63-65.
Hill had a few different angle as well. Minnaar aparently rides stock though.
BTW. I still think that the HA is a bit steep on V10s for more techy trails. I know it's rather a bike for trails like for William (so does the team) but one deg. would be better. Also what's with the slackness of the m6? It's only 0.5 deg slacker than most of the frames.
Last edited:
FWIW, I run my '05 V-10 with 45% sag, and it feels every bit as slack as the Sundays & Demos I've been on...Every bit.
Some good info here:
http://dirtmag.co.uk/news/category/videos/santa-cruz-syndicate-v10-set-up/dirt-1234193.html
according to the riders, Rennie runs his forks fully dropped in the corwns to get a slightly longer wheelbase and a bit slacker head angle, Minnaar actually steepened his up a bit to suit his own style and becasue he felt it made the fork perform better, and Peaty's is on a 2-of-a-kind one-off custom job with a longer toptube and 1.5 headtube. People overly concerned about what the factory guys are running should take a good listen to what Peaty says at the end.
http://dirtmag.co.uk/news/category/videos/santa-cruz-syndicate-v10-set-up/dirt-1234193.html
according to the riders, Rennie runs his forks fully dropped in the corwns to get a slightly longer wheelbase and a bit slacker head angle, Minnaar actually steepened his up a bit to suit his own style and becasue he felt it made the fork perform better, and Peaty's is on a 2-of-a-kind one-off custom job with a longer toptube and 1.5 headtube. People overly concerned about what the factory guys are running should take a good listen to what Peaty says at the end.
Yes, it is like Peaty said, everyone has his own preferences and what works for some peaple won't work for others.
I don't think that an averge rider would be happy with angels like Gee or Sam use. In fact a wrong setup can make you slower....
How did minnaar steepen it, because in the video you can see there is no stanchion above the crown, so that would be the slackest position, right?
Also a bit strange that minnaar doesnt know what components are on his bike.
thats because he has a full time mechanic what does his work for him so he doesnt have to sit in forums and talk about parts 24/7, he can go and ride
Easy, put a headset spacer under the crown. Also, i'm pretty sure a lot of the footage is taken from Worlds (edit: nevermind, it seems to be from maribor and ft. bill too) and a fair number of riders were getting their bikes as slack as they could for that track so it might not be his standard set-up. i believe Minnaar also put spacers under his direct mount to get his handlebars a bit higher on that track. he still had them installed at Ste. Anne as well. Most of those guys either run Rennie's set-it-and-forget-it approach or have a baseline that they alter slightly. and then there's Barel . . .
Last edited:
Im a bit confused here,......... Im missing something on the concept.
would pro racers not want a more responsive, racey, head angle,.... ie steeper rather than slacker.? They (pro dhers) are the ones with the Jedi like reflexes.
So would that not mean for the average rider (without jedi reflexes) that a production mode would be slacker......?
but in reality they sell steeper angled fronts to the ones who can handle it the least.... whilst the pros have slacker head angles who dont need them?
bit of a paradoxical situation..... or maybe I got it all wrong?
although I do understand that a worldcup track is totally different than what most v10s are used for.
I'm not a race mechanic or bike designer, but I believe racers can't be categorized in that way. Who knows who wants what setup.
Im a bit confused here,......... Im missing something on the concept.
would pro racers not want a more responsive, racey, head angle,.... ie steeper rather than slacker.? They (pro dhers) are the ones with the Jedi like reflexes.
So would that not mean for the average rider (without jedi reflexes) that a production mode would be slacker......?
but in reality they sell steeper angled fronts to the ones who can handle it the least.... whilst the pros have slacker head angles who dont need them?
bit of a paradoxical situation..... or maybe I got it all wrong?
although I do understand that a worldcup track is totally different than what most v10s are used for.
Im a bit confused here,......... Im missing something on the concept.
would pro racers not want a more responsive, racey, head angle,.... ie steeper rather than slacker.? They (pro dhers) are the ones with the Jedi like reflexes.
So would that not mean for the average rider (without jedi reflexes) that a production mode would be slacker......?
but in reality they sell steeper angled fronts to the ones who can handle it the least.... whilst the pros have slacker head angles who dont need them?
bit of a paradoxical situation..... or maybe I got it all wrong?
although I do understand that a worldcup track is totally different than what most v10s are used for.
I think the idea is that a Pro racer is going to be going at least twice as fast as most people at any point on a course, hence the slacker headangle allows for this. The bikes will turn a lot sharper for them in tight corners becuase they will be going faster, Thats how I interpret it anyway
Cheers
the footage was from Ft William
Most pros want the slacker HA and longer WB for greater stability. We don't ride on such high level we need extra stability and even If some of us do we don't go for WC type courses.(or some euro cup coruses
Im a bit confused here,......... Im missing something on the concept.
would pro racers not want a more responsive, racey, head angle,.... ie steeper rather than slacker.? They (pro dhers) are the ones with the Jedi like reflexes.
So would that not mean for the average rider (without jedi reflexes) that a production mode would be slacker......?
but in reality they sell steeper angled fronts to the ones who can handle it the least.... whilst the pros have slacker head angles who dont need them?
bit of a paradoxical situation..... or maybe I got it all wrong?
although I do understand that a worldcup track is totally different than what most v10s are used for.
). Actualy even the techy trails are not that narrow compared to some local stuff (look at the movies how vide most stuff there is) so the bike don't have to be that good at slow speed very tight corners. Was only in Maribor from WC tracks but man after complaining about the length of my rig after the whole season I was really happy it was that stable. To go faster extra deg in HA would not be a bad idea and I'm not a pro and Maribor in most places is not that damn steep.Also take into account that Gee has another bike for traning with normal HA. The steep as hell setup is for racing on WC tracks.
Also, a slacker head angle maintains the ability to steer on steeper terrain. I'm sure many of you have had the experience of stuffing your steeper angled trail bike into a corner only to have the front wheel dig in and send you over the bars. Stability (meaning a bike that doesn't have hyper-sensitive steering) and the ability to change direction of steep trails necessitate the slacker angles. besides the extra speed these guys carry, a lot of them have adopted a riding style that puts their weight farther over the front wheel and require a slacker bike to feel like they aren't going to flip over.
Last edited: