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shimano XT brakes for downhill?

saruti

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,173
75
Israel
anyone here use this brakes for DH?
I used sram elixir for years. but they have many problems...
I try shimano saint, but they are too much. feels like on\off... no modulation.
maybe the xt will fell less powerfull then the saint, and wont have the problems of the sram?

thanks guys
 
saruti

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,173
75
Israel
@Peach
Its not the price, its the power of the brakes.
I want the brakes to be like the elixir\guide (power)
but to not need a bleed every month.... and not do crazy thing in a middle of a run.. like.. get hard\too soft...
I weight 70kg so im not heavy.
I have old XT on my enduro bike (180 rotors) and like it very much.
will XT with 203mm rotors be good for DH?
 
4130biker

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
450
Should work fine, when they are working right. Have run SLX on my DH bike, but ALL of my shimano brakes (SLX, Zee, deore) have leaked fluid from the pistons onto my pads. YMMV
 
Flo33

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,135
1,364
Styria
Look into the Frankenbrake thread and the Zee I'm over it what's next thread. Very few will recommend a Shimano brake at all.

I really like my Formulas for the modulation they provide. I was a 785 XT guy for quite some years, but suddenly they started to act akward. Bleeding them only helped for 2-3 rides. Will not look back.
 
Kntr

Kntr

Turbo Monkey
Jan 25, 2003
7,526
21
Montana
Ive been using XT for years on all my bikes, even my DH bike. No problems at all and I ride 20+ days of resort. Bleed often.
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,149
13,358
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
saruti said:
@Peach
Its not the price, its the power of the brakes.
I want the brakes to be like the elixir\guide (power)
Click to expand...
You can pump air into the shimanos and they'll feel like that. Maybe bleed them with pepsi.




You should contact whoever runs the universe. You are the very first person in history to ever say the phrase "want brakes to be like elixirs"

There's gotta be a prize for that.
 
William42

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
4,012
771
XT's have more than enough power as a DH brake if you're sub 200lbs. The modulation is very nice as well.

Right up until the lever inevitably pulls to the bars and does absolutely nothing to stop, or even slow you down.
 
William42

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
4,012
771
kidwoo said:
You can pump air into the shimanos and they'll feel like that. Maybe bleed them with pepsi.




You should contact whoever runs the universe. You are the very first person in history to ever say the phrase "want brakes to be like elixirs"

There's gotta be a prize for that.
Click to expand...
Now if they could just feel like a hayes 9, that'd be where its at.
 
mrgto

mrgto

Monkey
Aug 4, 2009
295
118
Just had a life flash before my eyes moment with XT m8000 brakes last weekend. I’m done. The brakes were working then straight to the bars. I have a new helmet otw because of it.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,062
10,626
AK
I like the heat-management of modern shimano brakes, they have that nailed, but IME they are good for about 2-3 years or so, then you have to replace components. IME, it's the levers that go more frequently, not the caliper, although the caliper does the "weeping" thing when you let it sit for long periods. That I can deal with at 400° and 20 min in the oven, but the lever thing is annoying. You can often pick up the parts pretty cheap, like SLX levers or calipers for roughly the cost of brake pads (sometimes includes brake pads!), but I don't like the idea of disposable stuff. Wasteful. I like the XTR and XT setups I have right now, but I'll likely go to something else like maybe Hope again.

Just even with my XTRs with little dinky 6" rotors, the things never faded or overheated in multi-thousand foot descents during my 50 mile race last weekend, stuff where I was going as fast as possible downhill and having to feather and use the brakes all over the place. 10 years ago, that kind of descent really taxed a 6" brake at those speeds. Not to mention all the chutes and steep trails in Sedona afterwards. That performance was impressive, but I'm torn between just replacing major components if and when they fail, or buying something that has seal kits available. Back in the day at least, Hope did pretty well with keeping small parts and helping riders out. Shimano warranty is great too, but it seems like the only way to go is buy XTR for the longer warranty period, then you are almost guaranteed they'll fail in the warranty period...
 
Happymtb.fr

Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
2,066
1,437
SWE
Quality on Shimano brakes seem to have gone down for the brakes produced in 2017-2018 since many are replaced under warranty according to some mechanics I follow on the social media.
I would look elsewhere.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,779
7,044
borcester rhymes
I used them for a year of downhilling (lift assisted only). They were plenty powerful even for the steepest trails at 200lb. I think the set I ran was brand new, and I used them specifically for DH, so they didn't see a lot of miles. I never experienced the "phantom brake" that other people here have, but my saint 810s did before that, and my current pair of 785s does vary in feel quite a bit, though no dropout.

Consensus around here is that shimano brakes wear out over time, causing leaks from the caliper, and air absorption, likely through the caliper and into the lever causing the brake dropout. It's up to your whether you want to replace your brakes yearly for safety or get something else. Shimanos are great when they work, but there are too many reports of problems to buy a set new. I will likely replace the XTs on my trail bike as the feel is too on/off compared to my maguras or formulas.
 
saruti

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,173
75
Israel
I really like the XO \Elixir.... I like how they dont stop the bike. they just make it slower.
if my XO\elixir didn't die... I would probably use it forever.
I just got me a new Guide rsc. I hope they will be good to me :)
 
daisycutter

daisycutter

Turbo Monkey
Apr 8, 2006
1,688
177
New York City
I have Shimano brakes on all five of my bikes. Four pair of saints (one 810, three 820s) and a set of XTs. I have yet to have the issues you guys are having. I did kept one bike upside down which required the 820s to be re-blood but nothing besides that.
 
jstuhlman

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
17,313
14,123
Cackalacka du Nord
my xt brakes (4-5 years old, maybe) haven’t tried to kill me yet...they see a few lift days, a lot of big mountain days, and a handful of local days every year. but those crabon bars woo keeps warning me about haven’t hurt me yet either...
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,062
10,626
AK
jstuhlman said:
my xt brakes (4-5 years old, maybe) haven’t tried to kill me yet...they see a few lift days, a lot of big mountain days, and a handful of local days every year. but those crabon bars woo keeps warning me about haven’t hurt me yet either...
Click to expand...
What are "local days"? Am I reading this right that you just ride your bike a couple of times a season?
 
jstuhlman

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
17,313
14,123
Cackalacka du Nord
Jm_ said:
What are "local days"? Am I reading this right that you just ride your bike a couple of times a season?
Click to expand...
i’d guess about i ride around 50 times per year. i tend to ride in the mountains more than locally. local is trails near town-lots of short punchy ups and downs. mountains is usually grinding up gravel roads to earn descents. today, for example, we shuttled a good chunk; gained about 2700’ over course the ride, and probably descended around 5500’ total. that’s about average for a “mountains” ride for me. sure, it’s not 30 days per year in the bike park, but it ain’t flat 10 mile xc loops either.
 
Da Peach

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,773
5,198
North Van
Shimano user guide:

1. Go ride and don’t hate brakes. (Optional. If you choose not to follow step one, and don’t have the stomach to send them off to warranty purgatory, read on)
2. Get home and remove both wheels.
3. Open beer and reset pistons
4. Find business cards
5. Using bleed funnel, bleed levers and overfill system using 3 business cards in place of each rotor.
6. Leave overnight with levers pulled to bar with bleed funnel/syringes in place at lever
7. Wake up.
8. Go to work to earn money for your next set of brakes.
9. Return home and deal with real life for 2-3 hours.
10. Open beer #1 of day 2 of bleed process started in step 2.
11. Return to the scene of the maintenance
12. Remove Velcro straps/spring clamps/zip ties and bleed levers some more via vigorous lever pulling and line flicking.
13. Open beer #2 of day 2 of bleed process. Remember to unscrew the useless pad contact screw because you heard it does something at some point so you’d better unscrew it just to be safe.
14. More lever pulling and incredulous cursing as more bubbles still appear from somewhere. Keep going, this bleed is going to kick serious ass!
15. Open beer #3. Nurse this one because you don’t want to have the business cards fall out and pull the lever without noticing because that will require that you repeat steps 3 through 15 and you’re already 2.5 beers deep on day 2 was of this process.
16. Forget step 15 and drain beer #3 and check RM for the next “best thing” in brakes. Steel yourself. Again. This is so worth it.
17. Give the levers another few flicks and realize how much you could bill for this much time spent as a consultant of some kind, or fillings a dentist could have a installed. Quite a few, you’ll realize.
18. Where THE FUCK IS MY 2.5mm!!??!?!
19. Close up levers. Maybe remember to re-screw that little screw you heard/read about being important.
20. Easily re-install front wheel. Delight in the firm contact and short throw of the lever. Nice work you lush.
21. Curse your way through re-installing the rear wheel.
22. Pull rear lever and think about how it doesn’t feel quite a good as the front.
23. Forget to reposition levers and go to bed.
24. Wait until you have time to ride again. See step 9.
25. Go ride. Enjoy second-to-none, top-of-the-line brake performance. So, so, sweet. All brakes should be like this amirite????
26. Get home and try to convince yourself it was all worth it.
27. Go ride again. Preserve life. Feel anger rise as you miss braking points. Shake it off. Better than not riding, right?
28. Return home. See step 2.
 
Last edited:
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,663
7,021
God things have changed a lot, sounds like new Shimanos are like the old Maguras and vice versa.

I really like the MT5, after owning three woeful sets of Magura brakes I wasn't brave enough to spend the money on the MT7. Pretty glad I didn't as it seems some people swap them back to the MT5 lever anyway plus they don't really feel like they need more adjusters.
 
4130biker

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
450
Da Peach said:
Shimano user guide:

1. Go ride and don’t hate brakes. (Optional. If you choose not to follow step one, and don’t have the stomach to send them off to warranty purgatory, read on)
2. Get home and remove both wheels.
3. Open beer and reset pistons
4. Find business cards
5. Using bleed funnel, bleed levers and overfill system using 3 business cards in place of each rotor.
6. Leave overnight with levers pulled to bar with bleed funnel/syringes in place at lever
7. Wake up.
8. Go to work to earn money for your next set of brakes.
9. Return home and deal with real life for 2-3 hours.
10. Open beer #1 of day 2 of bleed process started in step 2.
11. Return to the scene of the maintenance
12. Remove Velcro straps/spring clamps/zip ties and bleed levers some more via vigorous lever pulling and line flicking.
13. Open beer #2 of day 2 of bleed process. Remember to unscrew the useless pad contact screw because you heard it does something at some point so you’d better unscrew it just to be safe.
14. More lever pulling and incredulous cursing as more bubbles still appear from somewhere. Keep going, this bleed is going to kick serious ass!
15. Open beer #3. Nurse this one because you don’t want to have the business cards fall out and pull the lever without noticing because that will require that you repeat steps 3 through 15 and you’re already 2.5 beers deep on day 2 was of this process.
16. Forget step 15 and drain beer #3 and check RM for the next “best thing” in brakes. Steel yourself. Again. This is so worth it.
17. Give the levers another few flicks and realize how much you could bill for this much time spent as a consultant of some kind, or fillings a dentist could have a installed. Quite a few, you’ll realize.
18. Where THE FUCK IS MY 2.5mm!!??!?!
19. Close up levers. Maybe remember to re-screw that little screw you heard/read about being important.
20. Easily re-install front wheel. Delight in the firm contact and short throw of the lever. Nice work you lush.
21. Curse your way through re-installing the rear wheel.
22. Pull rear lever and think about how it doesn’t feel quite a good as the front.
23. Forget to reposition levers and go to bed.
24. Wait until you have time to ride again. See step 9.
25. Go ride. Enjoy second-to-none, top-of-the-line brake performance. So, so, sweet. All brakes should be like this amirite????
26. Get home and try to convince yourself it was all worth it.
27. Go ride again. Preserve life. Feel anger rise as you miss braking points. Shake it off. Better than not riding, right?
28. Return home. See step 2.
Click to expand...
Or you can just hope that some steep descents, squeezing the shit out of the levers, listening to them howl, and furious pumping will bring them back to working order mid-ride...

Or so I’ve heard
 
StiHacka

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,508
In hell. Welcome!
Life with Saintguras:
T0. install bleed funnel at lever, thread in syringe with fresh oil at caliper, place bleed block in caliper
T0+1min. push fresh oil from caliper to bleed funnel
T0+5min. discard dirty oil from funnel, pour some fresh oil into funnel
T0+6min. pump the lever a couple of times
T0+7min. finish beer#1
T0+8min. unthread syringe, close bleed nipple
T0+9min. press the lever a couple more times - just for the satisfactory feeling
T0+10min. unthread bleed funnel, thread in bleed bolt to lever, re-install caliper
T0+11min. enjoy beer #2 and feel good about the simplicity and reliability of Saintguras
 
B

Bike078

Monkey
Jan 11, 2018
599
440
Da Peach said:
Shimano user guide:

1. Go ride and don’t hate brakes. (Optional. If you choose not to follow step one, and don’t have the stomach to send them off to warranty purgatory, read on)
2. Get home and remove both wheels.
3. Open beer and reset pistons
4. Find business cards
5. Using bleed funnel, bleed levers and overfill system using 3 business cards in place of each rotor.
6. Leave overnight with levers pulled to bar with bleed funnel/syringes in place at lever
7. Wake up.
8. Go to work to earn money for your next set of brakes.
9. Return home and deal with real life for 2-3 hours.
10. Open beer #1 of day 2 of bleed process started in step 2.
11. Return to the scene of the maintenance
12. Remove Velcro straps/spring clamps/zip ties and bleed levers some more via vigorous lever pulling and line flicking.
13. Open beer #2 of day 2 of bleed process. Remember to unscrew the useless pad contact screw because you heard it does something at some point so you’d better unscrew it just to be safe.
14. More lever pulling and incredulous cursing as more bubbles still appear from somewhere. Keep going, this bleed is going to kick serious ass!
15. Open beer #3. Nurse this one because you don’t want to have the business cards fall out and pull the lever without noticing because that will require that you repeat steps 3 through 15 and you’re already 2.5 beers deep on day 2 was of this process.
16. Forget step 15 and drain beer #3 and check RM for the next “best thing” in brakes. Steel yourself. Again. This is so worth it.
17. Give the levers another few flicks and realize how much you could bill for this much time spent as a consultant of some kind, or fillings a dentist could have a installed. Quite a few, you’ll realize.
18. Where THE FUCK IS MY 2.5mm!!??!?!
19. Close up levers. Maybe remember to re-screw that little screw you heard/read about being important.
20. Easily re-install front wheel. Delight in the firm contact and short throw of the lever. Nice work you lush.
21. Curse your way through re-installing the rear wheel.
22. Pull rear lever and think about how it doesn’t feel quite a good as the front.
23. Forget to reposition levers and go to bed.
24. Wait until you have time to ride again. See step 9.
25. Go ride. Enjoy second-to-none, top-of-the-line brake performance. So, so, sweet. All brakes should be like this amirite????
26. Get home and try to convince yourself it was all worth it.
27. Go ride again. Preserve life. Feel anger rise as you miss braking points. Shake it off. Better than not riding, right?
28. Return home. See step 2.
Click to expand...
Go on fren, tell us how you really feel.
 
Da Peach

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,773
5,198
North Van
Kinda off topic: Is a semi-metallic pad the same as an organic?

I’ve only ever used metallic, and I hear organic will kill me....
 
B

Bike078

Monkey
Jan 11, 2018
599
440
Da Peach said:
Kinda off topic: Is a semi-metallic pad the same as an organic?

I’ve only ever used metallic, and I hear organic will kill me....
Click to expand...
I have not tried metallic but have used semi-metallic (jagwire, ashima brands) on my old m665 slx. I remember that they still had bite even in the wet. The resins on my deore m615 lost power when wet.
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,918
1,213
Da Peach said:
Kinda off topic: Is a semi-metallic pad the same as an organic? I’ve only ever used metallic, and I hear organic will kill me....
Click to expand...
For where you live I'd probably stick with metals.

Semi-metallic, organic, resin are used interchangeably which makes things pretty confusing and most of them do have metal particles in different amounts. Each pad needs to be tried and evaluated on an individual basis, a lot of them are average / bad in the wet. In the dry many of them can work better than metal pads and maintain friction until the pad is fully worn (unlike full-sintered / metallic which glaze and reduce friction of the entire depth of pad material after some usage, and this is definitely common to all of them except the heatsink Shimano metal ones which improve the situation noticeably). Also Bike078 is right, the Shimano resins are not worth bothering with.

If I lived somewhere wet and wanted to try semi / organic pads, I'd only run one per caliper (other metal).
Means you don't die if they don't work in the wet.
 
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