I saw this on TractionMag, anyone know what the deal is with this. I did a search and got a bunch of Japanese sites and well, I don't speak Japanese and the online translator fouled it all up.
yes. yes we do.Do we really need another ultra high performance, ultra limited run, ultra expensive, and hard to work on fork? Or a fork that works well, is reliable, easy to work on and doesn't cost 1500+ for 100 bucks in machined and cast parts? Just a thought......
Tell that to the works depts at major moto and offroad racing suspension developers.http://www.spinner-usa.com/e/freeride-ammo01.htm p.s., bounced on one of the today, feels better than my 55 tst2 (not that the 55 is a stellar fork). Oh ya, retail is like 200.........suspension aint rocket science people
They will admit it quite readily actually. Not at all rocket science either. Just simple fluid dynamics. Someone with two years of engineering school could 100% comprehend the most intricate types of suspension and improve upon it, and they routinely do.Tell that to the works depts at major moto and offroad racing suspension developers.
Sure, they can. Getting it to do what you want however, is not as easy as comprehending the theory behind it. Otherwise, we'd already have "the perfect" suspension and the companies behind it wouldn't be blowing millions on it every year.They will admit it quite readily actually. Not at all rocket science either. Just simple fluid dynamics. Someone with two years of engineering school could 100% comprehend the most intricate types of suspension and improve upon it, and they routinely do.
exactly, why am I, with NO formal training in mechanical engineering able to modify my $900 marzocchi fork and fix simple, but not negliable problems with it, and improve the overall performance, and understand everything I'm doing (and the "theory"). Oh ya, and I never opened up the fork before, and it took me maybe hour from start to finish? And I'm not incredible mechanically adept.They will admit it quite readily actually. Not at all rocket science either. Just simple fluid dynamics. Someone with two years of engineering school could 100% comprehend the most intricate types of suspension and improve upon it, and they routinely do.
And what makes you think they have a low cost in mind?getting forks produced at a low cost could mean a lot of good news for our industry.
That is why it's 90% R&D, not rocket science.Sure, they can. Getting it to do what you want however, is not as easy as comprehending the theory behind it. Otherwise, we'd already have "the perfect" suspension and the companies behind it wouldn't be blowing millions on it every year.
Because it is time consuming? And maybe because a race support team needs to be already familiar with all facets of the race vehicle and able to make fast modifications/rebuilds at the scene of a race? Moto's are vastly more complex than a mountain bike with the addition of the thing called "an engine", which could occupy a head mechanic by itself and probably does.If it's so easy to set up suspension for the highest level of racer then moto works forks wouldn't be worth $50k. The lead Honda bike designer had a mechanic and a suspension engineer with him at the Master's in '05. Why if it's so easy?
Anyway, any fork from Showa will be outside the price range that most cheap DH racers will pay. Their moto "kit suspension" part to upgrade the factory original internals are $3k+ alone.
So if you consider "improving performance" changing fluid, yes a monkey could do it. If you spent an hour "improving" your fork, I doubt you even cleaned it good. Let alone, cleaning up the ports.
Just wanted to point out that there are sport racers on 10k DH bikes, racing for mid pack finishes. Just because money is spent, doesn't mean its required or necessary.If it's so easy to set up suspension for the highest level of racer then moto works forks wouldn't be worth $50k. The lead Honda bike designer had a mechanic and a suspension engineer with him at the Master's in '05. Why if it's so easy?
Rocket science involves a lot of testing too, there's just a lot more money and explosives involved!That is why it's 90% R&D, not rocket science.
Like I mentioned, with the production activity and overhead they already have, it would be a pretty safe assumption they could move right into MTB production without a lot of upfront investment dollars, aka costs.And what makes you think they have a low cost in mind?
Yeah I'm sure he built that shock in a dayTake the guy who made the rear shock for the Millyard bike, some brilliant tank suspension engineer who probably built something in a day that supposedly blows any current rear shocks out of the water. Bike industry needs some of those
lthumbsdown:Take the guy who made the rear shock for the Millyard bike, some brilliant tank suspension engineer who probably built something in a day that supposedly blows any current rear shocks out of the water. Bike industry needs some of those
Yeah...that guy....Alan Millyard. I'm quite sure the development of that shock took him more than a day if not several sleepless nights getting it right. The way you say it ...anyway,still impressive that he pulled it off if one compares it to the bike industry.Take the guy who made the rear shock for the Millyard bike, some brilliant tank suspension engineer who probably built something in a day that supposedly blows any current rear shocks out of the water. Bike industry needs some of those
That Millyard bike is one of the most over hyped bikes around....Yes its different,yes the guy that made it has done a good job.Yeah...that guy....Alan Millyard. I'm quite sure the development of that shock took him more than a day if not several sleepless nights getting it right. The way you say it ...anyway,still impressive that he pulled it off if one compares it to the bike industry.
The shock and the drivetrain. It's silent and its totally sealed.That Millyard bike is one of the most over hyped bikes around....Yes its different,yes the guy that made it has done a good job.
Just what is so ground breaking about it??????
It is sorta over hyped, but there are some cool/good ideas there, Dirt did a test/ once over on it a few months back, plus the new one has a single sided swing arm and folds in half. I like the fact that the drivetrain is completely enclosed, think of a timing chain in a car. Rarely needs replacement because in a closed environment, it is much easier to keep a chain happy and void of any outside muck.That Millyard bike is one of the most over hyped bikes around....Yes its different,yes the guy that made it has done a good job.
Just what is so ground breaking about it??????
Indeed. In my opinion, that's the future of mountain biking. Internal gearing should be standard. conventional drivetrains will always be broken need to be replaced soon enough, and will always make horrible noises. I also have always felt that inverted forks would perform better on bikes given the right design and testing. Significantly less unsprung weight, and if made well, I think an inverted fork could be equally as stiff as top end conventional forks.The shock and the drivetrain. It's silent and its totally sealed.
BOS is so good that it was able to go back in time and invent non-inverted lowers before anybody else had thought of it, just so people wouldn't have to use proprietary hubs.The problem is that to make an really stiff inverted fork I think that you need a redesigned hub. Some manufacturers (take BOS for example) did not want to make consumers buy a new proprietary hub as well to help keep cost down. While it is good to keep cost down, I would hate to see progress hindered because of it. I think if it is truly better, market it. If it's that much better enough people should jump on to drive cost down.... in theory.....
I wasn't just spewing random sh*t.... If you read on the BOS site it talks about how they initially wanted to make the fork inverted but decided against it so that they could run a standard 20mm front hub. I was just using it as an example.BOS is so good that it was able to go back in time and invent non-inverted lowers before anybody else had thought of it, just so people wouldn't have to use proprietary hubs.
BOS built the castle it was born in with its own hands
Or not. Honda didn't do that great.If Showa wanted to get really serious about making hi performance DH forks, the other manufacturers would crumble to their knee's in awe.