So here it is... 07 DHR!
- Thread starter 1soulrider
- Start date
I really like it, but no iscg05 or OnePointFive headtube 
lthumbsdown:
nice and clean otherwise.
lthumbsdown:nice and clean otherwise.
GUNMETAL-PEWTER Polished base...
I was wondering when you would say that. I have to admit, the Ventana is a pretty good copy.
The Pewter Ano on the Turner/Wahoo's team bikes is perfect. Dont change it.
There is quite a difference in the shock linkage, however. The Ventana is very plush in the first part of the stroke, then ramps very quickly through the latter. The ramp on the Turner is not as severe. That can just be a personal preference issue between the two.
Well yah the linkage is of couse dif. but the front tri. is pretty dam spot on!!
There is quite a difference in the shock linkage, however. The Ventana is very plush in the first part of the stroke, then ramps very quickly through the latter. The ramp on the Turner is not as severe. That can just be a personal preference issue between the two.
Plush in the first part of the stroke, hmmm that sounds pretty good. Guess the boys a Go-Ride are racing this bike.
Except that the copy came out 8 months ahead of the turner. The go-ride team has a choice of turner, ventana, yeti, or iron horse. I think this year there was one on an iron horse, one on a yeti, 7 or 8 on ventanas and 1 on a turner. All the strong results only came from one bike (Ventana) -- sorry Mani
Dam The Ventana is looking better & Better $2249 (frame and shock)
Price includes Hadley hub and axle, plus free shipping!* Around $400 less then the DHR!
Price includes Hadley hub and axle, plus free shipping!* Around $400 less then the DHR!
And probably one rider....CVD.
CVD rode for cannondale this year (at least until he was hurt in Spain). He did great in 05 on a Ventana though.
Andrew Peirce rode one to some Jr X podiums and 10th (best american) at Jr Worlds. Del Bosco won the MSC race at snowmass against Graves and some other fast guys. Vdub won semi at Brian head on one, and there have been about 15-20 expert/semipro NMBS podiums and 3 expert National Championships on Ventanas over the last two seasons.
Well it seems that no one wants flash, so it will be as close to the Turner/Wahoo's bikes as possible. Since that was a custom finish getting the anodizer to remember what it looks like will be a challenge, but polished and medium gray ano it is.
1 1/8 With the shorter head tube it does not need a zero stack to get the hands down, and I know that is what most want in this kinda bike, and it is easier to raise the hands for the few that want to go up. The head tube will be of the same wall dims as the RFX has had since 2000 so I expect no problems. Of course it will be relieved in the middle for weight saving as that is not where the frame ovalizes.
ISCG B, every maker still uses it and the biggest guide makers I have talked to say there is NO intention of discontinuing the B version. Since no Turner has ever had a mount fail there is no advantage to me there, and since this still has a Euro sized shell there is no advantage to the bigger bolt pattern. For those that are confused by set up the tabs on this frame will be set back from the BB face 3mm which is the thickness of 2 standard washers, this will make setting the guide up easy if the guide requires a guide to be flush with the BB face set up.
83x150, that is what so many people wanted, I was very surprised. I know the parts are heavy but hopefully TruVativ or FSA or ?? will make a XT level long spindle crank for the racers to keep the weight down. I really had no intention of using the FR standard but every single rider that had experience on the Highline with the 83 wanted it. So it is done.
As far as the Ventana goes I never looked at the geometry that the guys at Go Ride designed, ever. All the development came from Turner riders, and since Go Ride has had some great riders on thier team for years it must mean that is how they created the spec for Ventana to build.
1 1/8 With the shorter head tube it does not need a zero stack to get the hands down, and I know that is what most want in this kinda bike, and it is easier to raise the hands for the few that want to go up. The head tube will be of the same wall dims as the RFX has had since 2000 so I expect no problems. Of course it will be relieved in the middle for weight saving as that is not where the frame ovalizes.
ISCG B, every maker still uses it and the biggest guide makers I have talked to say there is NO intention of discontinuing the B version. Since no Turner has ever had a mount fail there is no advantage to me there, and since this still has a Euro sized shell there is no advantage to the bigger bolt pattern. For those that are confused by set up the tabs on this frame will be set back from the BB face 3mm which is the thickness of 2 standard washers, this will make setting the guide up easy if the guide requires a guide to be flush with the BB face set up.
83x150, that is what so many people wanted, I was very surprised. I know the parts are heavy but hopefully TruVativ or FSA or ?? will make a XT level long spindle crank for the racers to keep the weight down. I really had no intention of using the FR standard but every single rider that had experience on the Highline with the 83 wanted it. So it is done.
As far as the Ventana goes I never looked at the geometry that the guys at Go Ride designed, ever. All the development came from Turner riders, and since Go Ride has had some great riders on thier team for years it must mean that is how they created the spec for Ventana to build.
Ohh ano gray!!!!
I like!!
I like!!
Not to argue or anything, but ISCG wasn't really a standard, as there was no reference for orientation or depth. This was why 90% of manufacturers out there just couldn't get the damn things right. ISCG05 includes these rather important numbers.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really understand why you would go to the lengths of re-engineering the rest of the bike, and not updating something as trivial as the ISCG tabs?
Excellent choice. Now start building (size large first) so that we can start giving you our money
I gotta admit, I'm not too worried about the tabs. With the adaptor e13 does, they can bolt up whatever they need anyways and it'll work. Kona doesn't have he tabs on thier bikes, and the guides work just fine.
Face is, you could bolt an e13 on upside down, backwards and light it on fire and it'd probably still work well.
Face is, you could bolt an e13 on upside down, backwards and light it on fire and it'd probably still work well.
Um, didn't you ride a Turner in 2001? I can't remember, what color ws the '01 Ventana?
I can't use the tabs AT ALL on any orange. They managed to screw them up so badly (year after year) that they are just useless. In fact, i have been known to dremel them off completely.
I agree. The only major complaint I had about my DHR was that I could never get the bottom bracket to quit creaking, I think out board bearing may have solved that problem.
Well, Turner was one of the few companies who got the tabs right from the get go. Putting an E13 on a DHR was like bolting on a handlebar, so he probaly didn't get any complaints for him to think about changing it.
That isn't really the point though is it? ISCG05 changes more than a few things, including some leverage crap making for a stronger guide with less deflection.
I just don't get why you would just ignore something like that to save 10 mins during the design stage? Standard e13 stuff now is ISCG05, it is a pain in the butt to get non 05 stuff at a local shop.
All I was saying is that Turner has always made changes to his bikes based on what his riders ask for.
Things like slacker head angles, 150 rear end etc...
If nobody was complaining he may not have payed attention to the new standard.
But keep bitching about it and he will change it, it has already worked on the color.:biggrin:
The 01 turner had about a 68-69 degree head tube angle, twin top tubes, different linkage. I think all it had in common with the 07 Turner is the name on the decals and quality constructionUm, didn't you ride a Turner in 2001? I can't remember, what color ws the '01 Ventana?
ISCG05 is really, really hard to implement in tubular frames. That top hole no longer makes it feasible to make one piece BB shells/iscg tabs, as you would have to star with a pretty enormous piece of stock. Redesigning a frame to fit a new chainguide standard is pretty lame, especially when the old BCD standard isn't going anywhere any time soon, and works absolutely fine on many different types of frames when properly rotated.
ISCG05 certainly has many merits and will allow change and innovation to occur, and if your frame design allows easy integration, that is awesome. But with the coming of gearboxes, how soon will it be until chainguides are relegated to slalom bikes only?
ISCG05 certainly has many merits and will allow change and innovation to occur, and if your frame design allows easy integration, that is awesome. But with the coming of gearboxes, how soon will it be until chainguides are relegated to slalom bikes only?
I would say starting from a blank page would allow fairly easy integration.
So, what, you expected them to put a bend in the downtube or make some huge BBshell member just so people could use a specific chainguide? How would that make the bike any better? Would it make it go faster? No. So why do it?
You do know that most manufacturers simply machine the iscg mount and weld it on afterwards right?
That's why they end up in the wrong place.
As buildyourown said that's why all the tabs are positioned improperly. That's also why people break off ISCG tabs.
No, the are positioned improperly because manufacturers can't follow a standard that has no references to other places on the bike.
Also, you break off ISCG tabs whether they are welded on or machined out of the frame.
Uh - except on Turners, apparently.
Show me a dhr for 2600
Right, and those manufacturers are being half assed. Just like the manufacturers who can't figure out where the hell the tabs need to be to have your guide setup right. The companies that have 1 piece shells (Sinister, Cannondale, Turner) have never had any iscg tab failures that I am aware of. With the ISCG05 Having to weld on and properly locating that third hole that is up in space adds more complexity to a simple tubed bike. On a Sunday it is no big deal, as therre is a shockmount/frame member in the right place. On some of the bikes with big machined bbshells/pivot areas it is also simple to make something that works with '05. With a hardtail or DH bike with a traditional tubed downtube, or a box section downube that is only a few inches in diameter, locating the third hole is not easy.
It is called being thorough, being a bike rider, and giving a damn. You don't need a "standard" to make a bike function right, what you need is experience and common sense As far as I can tell Turner is MORE than thorough when they design their bikes. Even though they don't build their own bikes I would still outclass them above most of the people who do....
Dude I've ridden the same front triangle for 3 years, knocked the sh1t out of mrp and e.13 guides and never even phased a tab on my bike.
What you really mean to be saying here is "the ones on my bike suck so I'm going to bag on the company that did a good job the first time around".
Don't sweat it. Nobody who's owned a dhr will see it as a detriment.
Sure thing dude, 90% of the bike manufacturers out there don't have it right, due to the "standard" being incomplete. I've seen plenty of broken tabs, from plenty of manufacturers.
And they may see it as an issue when they can only get a guide from one or 2 manufacturers somewhere down the line. It wouldn't be like it was the first time that had happenned.