[Bicyclist]

Here's the deal. I'm on a Demo 8 right now, and it's a good bike. It's pretty damn fast. I just don't like the tall front end, even w/ a 7" Boxxer. The cockpit's a bit short for my taste too.

I'm looking at picking up maybe a new complete or frame. The Commencal Supreme looks really nice. It's shorter travel, a plus, and lighter too!

I need a race frame and one that's good at just blasting down trails. I don't freeride. When I do it's all smooth stuff on racecourses. So I don't need a tank. I want something that's low, slack, and good at going mach II while still being easy to manuver and corner. I guess the Demo is a little to freeride for me, although it's really good.

I've also been checking out Oranges and Morewoods but they're a bit pricey. I guess the Commencal is too, but whatever.

On the Commencal, I've got a few questions. I'm pushing 6', and I'm wondering what size I should get. I'm on a medium Demo 8 and I'd want something about that size. What's the TT length on the S/M? Also, what are the head angles that are available via the sleeves?'

I guess I'm looking for a lighter, sleeker race bike to replace both my Demo and my Enduro. I'd ride this for DH and a hardtail for a trail bike.

 

[konabiker]

Here's the deal. I'm on a Demo 8 right now, and it's a good bike. It's pretty damn fast. I just don't like the tall front end, even w/ a 7" Boxxer. The cockpit's a bit short for my taste too.

I'm looking at picking up maybe a new complete or frame. The Commencal Supreme looks really nice. It's shorter travel, a plus, and lighter too!

I need a race frame and one that's good at just blasting down trails. I don't freeride. When I do it's all smooth stuff on racecourses. So I don't need a tank. I want something that's low, slack, and good at going mach II while still being easy to manuver and corner. I guess the Demo is a little to freeride for me, although it's really good.
I've also been checking out Oranges and Morewoods but they're a bit pricey. I guess the Commencal is too, but whatever.

On the Commencal, I've got a few questions. I'm pushing 6', and I'm wondering what size I should get. I'm on a medium Demo 8 and I'd want something about that size. What's the TT length on the S/M? Also, what are the head angles that are available via the sleeves?'

I guess I'm looking for a lighter, sleeker race bike to replace both my Demo and my Enduro. I'd ride this for DH and a hardtail for a trail bike.

If you want low and slack I don't think the Commencal is going to be the bike you want. I don't know though, someone else can chime in. A Sunday sounds like the perfect bike for what you want...

 

[AusRottenVirus]

I love my M3, but it is pretty pricey.

 

[Bicyclist]

Yeah, I was just thinking a Sunday would be good. I guess I can't really express what I want.

I'm looking for a low front end, relatively low BB, 65-66 degree HA or therabouts, and a bike that will corner well but go fast in a straight line. The Demo isn't bad, it's just a bit tall in the front and not quite as race-y as what I'm looking for.

Edit: I can't really afford an M3 and I don't really want a VPP bike. DW-link or single pivot sound good to me. Maybe a DHR? I don't really get "excited" about a DHR though.

Maybe Bikenweed can chip in, I know he has a Demo and has ridden lots of other bikes to compare it to.

 

[Red Bull]

how about that new intense bike? so-com or whatever

 

[Bicyclist]

how about that new intense bike? so-com or whatever

Not quite what I'm looking for. I want more of a DH bike and less of a short-course bike. It's pretty damn cool though.

 

[PatBranch]

You need a bullit. It has to be rootbeer.
___________________________
I think you would like a sunday though. Maybe the place that replaced supergo still has some that you could ride.

 

[maxyedor]

Check out the Foes Fly. The front end is lowish with an 8" 888, but with a 7" Boxxer it shoulld suit your needs. They're fairly light and climb freakin' badass. I've got a large and it fits me almost exactly like my large 575 lengthwise. It can also be built very light if that's your thing. If you want to ride one PM me and we'll go riding (supposong I'm not in Mexico)

 

[Salami]

Yeah, I was just thinking a Sunday would be good. I guess I can't really express what I want.

I'm looking for a low front end, relatively low BB, 65-66 degree HA or therabouts, and a bike that will corner well but go fast in a straight line. The Demo isn't bad, it's just a bit tall in the front and not quite as race-y as what I'm looking for.

I sounds like the Sunday fits almost exactly what you are looking for. I have extremely limited time on D8 but it feels nothing like my Sunday. It feels so like a 4X4 compared to my bike (granted the one I rode has an 05 888 and 2" bars ). It feels exactly like the type of bike you are describing.

I have a 8" Boxxer, direct mount stem, and low rise bars. Factor in the E13 cups which give add minimal stack height and I don't think the front end can get much lower on the bike without having less travel. I am 6' and I find a 17" frame is perfect with a 60mm stem.

 

[Bicyclist]

Wow, a Sunday sounds good. A Commencal may be in my future if my shop starts carrying them, though.

Also, BCD offered to build me a bike. Sounds pretty cool, especially because later I can run 29" wheels if the mood strikes me. And that would be balla.

 

[dexter]

sunday, bcd, old m1, sinister r9, yeti dh9 etc etc

 

[acair422]

I'd definetly say the DHR, people don't give it enough credit as a high end race bike, depending on how you build it the bike can weigh anywhere from prob about 42-47 (air boxxer wud be lightest) it's a great frame that really rips it up if you have any questions please feel free to ask

 

[bjanga]

Get a flat bar too.

 

[Bicyclist]

Well I want a Sunday or a BCD, I've narrowed it down. Thanks for the help guys.

EDIT: The 224 looks slick too. I guess I'll see what I can get my paws on. The Morewood's not bad either.

I'm gonna ride my Demo through the summer and see what I can trade for or buy.

 

[SXtrailrider]

How heavy are DHR frames? also I have heard a lot of great things about them great at cornering great at jumping. pritty much that it is one of the greatest DH bikes out in the same class as a sunday.

 

[Bicyclist]

I'd get something else over a DHR. I just don't really like them. Rational? No. But if I'm laying down the cash I may as well get something I like. It's mental anyways, so I may as well go with it.

 

[zmtber]

i am suppose to say get TURNER DHR but if you are really not into them (don't know why not) I would consider a V10 these bikes are designed for one thing (like the DHR) and that is to go downhill fast. the bikes were built for the sol purpose of racing DH. i have two friends who own one and they ride great with the long travel it can hit anything, but the vpp allows it to be a good pedaler at the same time.

I have heard nothing but good about these two frames if it was me i would be considering: 1) TURNER DHR 2) IH Sunday 3) SC v10 4) morewood IZUMU

 

[bikenweed]

Maybe Bikenweed can chip in, I know he has a Demo and has ridden lots of other bikes to compare it to.

Damn, I'm famous. My second Demo8 just broke, and I don't really like the frame much. It's just too nervous with that tiny back end. I'm trying to get something kinda like you, but don't know if I have the cash yet. Anyhow, here's my thoughts:

The Ellsworth Rogue frame with a short shock supposedly has a 12.5" BB height, 6" of coil travel, a 66° head tube, a lengthy wheelbase, and doesn't weigh too much. This could very easily be my next bike. Everyone hates on Ellsworth, but I'll give it a shot and try the bike out. Plus, it's possible to get 7 or 8 inches of travel out of it as well. This is my favorite option right now, and I could race DH on it easily.

Santa Cruz makes a bunch of good bikes, minus the fact that the bearings wear out super quick. In 1.5 years of M1 ownership, I had no bearing issues. All the Santa Cruz VPP owners I know need to replace their bearings at LEAST once a year, and I ride about twice as much as these people. I really like the Nomad, and would toss a shorter shock on it to get it to ride like $$$$. Nomad seems like it is lighter than the VPFree, but stronger than the Blur4x/BlurLT. It's a freeride bike, but has a lot of potential.

The Turner Six Pack is also pretty nice, but it seems a little too tall and steep. Maybe a new shock would help, but I hate how single pivots ride, and don't want to end up hating a brand new, high dolla frame.

I've been considering a Kona Stinky since they're so cheap. Toss on a new shock, and boom, a strong, simple frame that would be pretty much disposable. It's also a single pivot, but it's cheappppp.

Morewood has a hook up for our team, but every 222/223/224 I have ever ridden feels like complete crap, and since the Morewood is so similar to the 223, I don't imagine it being much different. I'll try one out this summer back in SLO, but if it rides at all like every other single pivot I've tried, I won't get one.

Oh yeah, get a Fox 40 if you can. Very short axle to crown length, and you can change the travel between 6-8" in .5" increments. I found the 7" setting on the Demo to be the best, and will try 6.5" and 6" on my back up frame while I warranty my broken Demo. It's a big step up over the Boxxer, and if you can snag a deal on a new frame, a used Demo 8 and fork gets quite a bit of $$$. Hmmm...

 

[bikenweed]

Ok, so this bike rides like a dream, best bike I've ever had the joy of riding. However, the back end is made of cheese and breaks really easily. It now has a coil shock with a 450lb spring, giving 4" of travel. Super long, super stable, still very flickable, BB beight is somewhere in the 12's. 2005 SX with a 6" 40 and DH tires. Even though pilot looks 12 years old, he's really 21.

 

[Bicyclist]

Even though pilot looks 12 years old, he's really 21.

Bwahaha. Anyways, I think I'm gonna go for something a little more DH than what you're looking for. A Sunday is way up on my list, as is a BCD Inedible. (mmm carbon). I want to be able to just go really frikken fast down stuff, and the Sunday has IMO perfect geo for that. Low bb, semi-slack HA, longer stays than the Demo, etc. And DW link pedals so well it's not even fair.

The BCD is pretty cool, it's a linkage-driven single pivot w/ an idler pully for no brake jack or pedal feedback. Definately something to consider at the price.

If I were you I wouldn't get a Stinky. You seem to like fast trails. The Stinky is really upright for freeride, and it's got a really high COG. Just a thought.

What don't you like about single pivots?

 

[rigidhack]

The Sinister R9 is a rediculously nice bike. The thing gets more and more stable as the speed increases. I have limitd time on one, but my impression was that the bike wanted to be going 50mph at all times. It is low, slack and just plain old FAST.

 

[SuspectDevice]

I just didn't want to say it first, but a Sinister R9 fits the billl pefectly.

Lighter and longer than a demo. If it helps, think of the R9 as similar geometry to a V-10 but with a lower BB, better wheelpath and considerably more refined leverage ratio.

 

[Bicyclist]

They're super-expensive, aren't they?

I can get a Morewood for a good price, Sundays are pretty expensive, and I can surprisingly get a BCD for pretty cheap too. Desicions, desicions.

 

[SuspectDevice]

The R9? No, the R9 goes for measly $2255 from rad shops like www.ride-this.com. If you work at a shop call or email Sinister to find out about E.P. pricing.

 

[Bicyclist]

Hrm, so I could get a deal on Morewood and Sinister...

I think I'd prefer a Sunday/Inedible/Izumi over the Sinister. I like a low BB and all 3 can have that. The Sinister's is more like my Demo's BB height.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Is it? 8" boxxer is 14.25" Add 4" of sag and it get's pretty low! You can't run the bb as low on a 10" travel bike as you can on an 8" travel bike like the Sunday, it just doesn't add up...

The Sinister website still has murky and undefined geometry numbers... At least it doesn't mention what front deraileur the R9 takes now though...

 

[rigidhack]

Seriously, you should at least try an R9 before you dismiss it on numbers alone. FTW really knows his stuff. The R9 has a really cool "sit inside the bike" feeling to it. An R9 with an Avy or a Cane Creek DB and a 888 or a Boxxer Team would be outrageously cool!

 

[Bicyclist]

I'll consider it but without riding one I don't think I'd buy one.

 

[bikenweed]

If I were you I wouldn't get a Stinky. You seem to like fast trails. The Stinky is really upright for freeride, and it's got a really high COG. Just a thought.

What don't you like about single pivots?

Since you (have only?) ride FSR's, you'll probably find this to be true for you as well.

Single pivots pedal like complete crap, at least everyone I've tried. I don't know about high single pivots, like the Trek Diesel, BCD, or Appalache/Balfa, but my own AS-X and Heckler both sucked. It does NOT matter what kind of shock was mounted, they just sucked. I came from a pure hardtail XC/BMX background. On the XC rig, you can pedal out of corners and over rocks. On them single pivot rigs, you try to pedal on the rough stuff, and all of a sudden your pedals start getting pulled the opposite direction. WTF?! An R9 has a lower pivot than the Heckler, AS-X, DH-R and 222/223/224 do. That might kinda solve the problem, but neither my Demo, M1, nor Enduro have this feedback problem. Nor do the VPP rigs that I've had extensive time on have such an issue. Sure, if you don't want to go fast, this won't bother you. But I wanna go fast!


Exactly, the Kona is super steep and high. Put on a tiny shock, and in theory it would ride like the Enduro does, and it wouldn't break. It would also have a full seat tube, and no one would ever steal it. No one wants a Kona. I don't know the ratios between shock eye to eye and BB height/head tube angle change-age, but some trial and error would do the trick. It seems like a better idea every time I think about it, minus the weight issue.

I rode a Norco Six the other day and it RULED, except it was heavier than my Demo. It had a shorter shock, and was super manueverable. It would be better for slower trails, since it was tiny short, but it was sooo easy to spin and manual.

Sorry for the essay, just want to help ya get a bike that you don't want to throw into the ocean after the first ride.

 

[Bicyclist]

Don't apologize for a thorough response, that's just what I need!

I guess a single pivot is out, except for the BCD thanks to the idler pully.

The Sunday and BCD are pretty much equal in my book now.

Whenever I ride my Enduro (it's an 06 S-works w/ a 6" 36, DHX Air, DH tires in the slack setting) it's just plain old scary. I just don't feel as fast. I think I need a DH bike like my Demo to reach my full potential, and this bike is primarily a shuttle/lift/push up the hill bike. I'm gonna have a trail/XC bike for that stuff. I want to try XC racing again so I may pick up a cheeeep bike for trails and XC, and then have my DH bike.

The Kona idea sounds good for you because you seem to like a DH-geo bike w/ short travel that's manuverable.

I'm curious to see what you come up with.

 

[bikenweed]

The Ellsworth Rogue seems super ideal to me right now. 66° head tube, 12.5bb, 17.3 chainstays, and a 1250mm or something chainstays with a full seat tube. This is all with a 7.8 or whatever shock, and I already have one of those. Sounds good. Could probably race DH just fine on that with the 40 in the 7" mode. MMMmmm.

Either a large V10 or a large Sunday for DH, this Rogue thing for general riding/super D/Maxi and Mega Avalanches and Pee Otter, the SX for slalom, the Bontrager for XC, the Breezer for Road, the Standard for BMX, and the fixie for stacking onto my face on late night beer runs. Too many bikes, too much fun.

 

[Bicyclist]

OK, I was thinking the Rouge was gonna be your only DH bike.

I'd love to have a full-on and mini-DH bike but realistically only one of them would get ridden in my case, and I don't have the money. I'm trying to consolidate my fleet to a DJ bike, a DH bike, a trail bike, and then possibly a 4X full suspension bike later if I get into mountain cross/ds at all. I need a road bike too, I'm gonna try to find something cheap.

 

[Sherpa]

Linkage on the BCD? More details please

 

[Bicyclist]

NVM, I was wrong. I looked at it again and it's just a single pivot w/ an idler at the pully.

 

[Radarr]

Bicyclist - why not just throw a 8.5x2.5 DHX in your Demo? That will slack it out more, lower the BB, and give you less travel (~7.3"). Also, pick up an '06 Boxxer Ride. 130-178mm travel, same internals as the Team (hi/lo speed comp, floodgate, etc.), but with the travel adjust.

Even though new frames are fun, this is a whole heck of a lot cheaper.

 

[ÆX]

Linkage on the BCD? More details please

no linkage on bcd.

 

[Sherpa]

no linkage on bcd.

I thought you might be putting one on or he was talking about the 2x4. I knew there wasn't one on the Inedibles, but when are you doing the next run of Inedibles?

 

[TBFKAHG]

You might want to check out the Marin Quake. Sounds like your'e looking for about the same things in a DH bike I was and so far the Quake looks like it's going to work out great.

 

[ÆX]

I thought you might be putting one on or he was talking about the 2x4. I knew there wasn't one on the Inedibles, but when are you doing the next run of Inedibles?[/QUOT

the fall now. cnc stuff is slow to get running right. once we get all plugged in it should not be long.

 

[bikenweed]

Yeah, hurry up and make some bikes. I would be interested in one of them, as long as the prices aren't super high. I am poor.

Can they be painted? I like the orange from the old Klein Mantra frames. American bikes get all these boring paintjobs, and all euros have these cool, bright, loud, and obnoxious paintjobs. Way faster.

Oh yeah, and do the BCD bikes have a warranty? I pretty much suck at bike riding and manage to make hella mistakes while trying to go fast, destructing everything.

Oh, and if it does not include both a bottle opener and a bong built into it, I'm not interested.