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Spanglish B.B.?

Castle

Castle

Turbo Monkey
Jun 10, 2002
1,446
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VA
Apparently Fly Bikes and Tonic Fab have been toying with this....
(fly)




(tonicfab)


" It uses "Spanish" BB bearings in an external style BB for a euro BB. While the Spanish bearings aren't as tough as those found in Mid BB's, they are a lot better than anything currently found for a euro BB. It doesn't work for BMX chainline bikes, but it's perfect for Mountain Bike chainlines (50mm.) Production versions will be compatible with 68/73mm BB shells and the Shimano external BB tool. We oughta have these ready to sell late spring/early summer. Tony made these ones and they look great."


Anyone know if anyone has these in production yet?

I think it might be cool for someone wanting to run 22mm spindle cranks with a euro b.b and still have a decent sized bearing... Those new Wombolts look pretty sick.
 
Evil4bc

Evil4bc

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2005
1,080
1
Nor-Cal
FLY bikes stopped produceding their Euro to spanish B/B cups well over two years ago , they also never made that many sets due to the chainline issues with the offset of the cups .

I saw the Tonic spaniglish cups , good idea but basically a direct rip off of David from FLY's orignal design , which to my knowlage tonic did not get prior premission from David at FLY bikes to do so .
David from FLY bike and I have spoke about this subject recently as I has approched David quite some time ago about licencing this design from FLY bikes .

I have always supported the FLY spanish B/B , we use them on our Deathmobile frames and have stayed in consistand contact with David at FLY bikes about our use and development of the FLY spanish B/B system .

The basic cup design is a good one and works well with both 68mm and 73mm euro shells with or without a chainguide .
When these first came out I was reaaly excited about this product and bought 7 out of the ten sets shipped into the US .
I still run them on a few of my bikes and strongly believe this is the best set up for MTB euro B/B's.


To answer your question the FLY cups are no longer availible and I dont think the Tonic cups are availble yet .

We had some in the works and have currently stopped production and development due to the similarties of the Tonic cups , even through we had gotten prior approval to produce these from both David the orignal designer and FLY bikes the parent company who hold the design rights to the Spanish b/b system
 
Castle

Castle

Turbo Monkey
Jun 10, 2002
1,446
0
VA
you got an extra laying around you might want to sell? :brows:

thanks for the info, learn something new everyday
 
ufdff15

ufdff15

Monkey
Apr 13, 2004
809
0
Central Massachusetts
I've been using a FlyBikes "Spanglish" conversion for about 2 years now. As far I I know there was a very limited number of the conversion shipped to the U.S. somewhere around 7-15 of them. I have distroyed numerous euro bearings and Have been on the same Spanish one for aout 2 years(they need replacing but still ridable) I think they will sell very well if they go into production seeing as the are essentially a bmx external bb and external bb's have proven reliablity.
 
Evil4bc

Evil4bc

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2005
1,080
1
Nor-Cal
Castle said:
you got an extra laying around you might want to sell? :brows: thanks for the info, learn something new everyday
Click to expand...
No all mine are either spoken for , on bikes or currently at our machine shop .
I have herd rumors of bike shops in Tokyo sitting on a good 10+ sets which sorta drives me nuts as I really need a set for my new bike right now .
 
ufdff15

ufdff15

Monkey
Apr 13, 2004
809
0
Central Massachusetts
another note is that I've had some issues setting them up do to the fact that the spacers are designed around bmx bb width. Brad do you have any solutions to this? shoot me an email if you do.
 
Castle

Castle

Turbo Monkey
Jun 10, 2002
1,446
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VA
Evil4bc said:
No all mine are either spoken for , on bikes or currently at our machine shop .
I have herd rumors of bike shops in Tokyo sitting on a good 10+ sets which sorta drives me nuts as I really need a set for my new bike right now .
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Bah! :plthumbsdown:

I'll have to keep an eye out. I have a friend in Tokyo racing motorcycles. hmm
 
Evil4bc

Evil4bc

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2005
1,080
1
Nor-Cal
ufdff15 said:
another note is that I've had some issues setting them up do to the fact that the spacers are designed around bmx bb width. Brad do you have any solutions to this? shoot me an email if you do.
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Do you still have the ultra thin washer that came with them new ?
This is the only one I have found that gives you proper chainline with a E-13 guide , problem is most of the newer FLY spanish B/B kits now come with the same size spacer for the drive side and the non drive side :disgust1:

I still have the orignal prints from FLY for this system , if you need new spacers we could work something out Jay you still have something I want :lighten: :clapping: :spam:
 
ufdff15

ufdff15

Monkey
Apr 13, 2004
809
0
Central Massachusetts
Evil4bc said:
Do you still have the ultra thin washer that came with them new ?
This is the only one I have found that gives you proper chainline with a E-13 guide , problem is most of the newer FLY spanish B/B kits now come with the same size spacer for the drive side and the non drive side :disgust1:

I still have the orignal prints from FLY for this system , if you need new spacers we could work something out Jay you still have something I want :lighten: :clapping: :spam:
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I should have specified a little more. The internal spacing is what i'm having the issue with. I'm running it on my DNA which is Single Speed setup with no spacers due to a short spindle and that hasnt been a problem. I do have the original spacers which are 2 differant sizes. I've measured the internal spacing and placed what i beleived to be the proper spacers but there always seems to be a bit of play. But i do need some new bearings so that could be my problem. And yes I still have something you want and I'm about to the point where you have something I'll want. I'm just not sure which one:disgust:
 
w00dy

w00dy

In heaven there is no beer
Jun 18, 2004
3,417
51
that's why we drink it here
Tetreault said:
I want!!!:lighten: :lighten:
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It's easy enough, all you need is a toasted Raceface BB (shimano would probably work fine too), a spanish bearing set, and a set of cranks with pinchbolts, such as the Powerbites. You don't need an internal spacer if you can cinch down the cranks at the proper bearing tension.

Sidenote: it adds a little bit of weight and width, but the primo doubledown bearings have a much higher load rating. I'm running those on my bmx. Nothing but good things to say so far.
 
L

Landon

Monkey
Oct 20, 2004
274
0
David from FLY's
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David at FLY
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David from FLY
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I has approched David
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David at FLY
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David the orignal designer
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I think you are talking to the wrong person at Fly. Brad, your response implies that some sort of agreement/permission is required in order for a bike company to legally use a Spanish BB, which simply isn't the case. I wrote Fly to verify this, and here's the reponse I recieved:

Greetings to you,

You are all good to use the spainish bb, it can be used by whoever.

Good luck
Kevin Porter
www.flybikesbmx.com
www.vinylbmx.com
Click to expand...
Needless to say, I was surprised that KEVIN PORTER answered a general inquiry!!!



There's nothing about the internal or external Spanish BB's which is proprietary. It's a commonly available industrial bearing, and both styles of BB have been done well before Fly existed anyway, so it would be useless for Fly to attempt to patent this "system." The Spanish BB is a good idea, but not an entirely original one.

Anyway, thanks for checking out the Tonic Blog.

-L
 
Evil4bc

Evil4bc

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2005
1,080
1
Nor-Cal
Landon
You received an email fro Kevin Porter , not David at FLY( owner of FLY bikes and orignal designer of the Spansih B/B and the Euro to Spansih B/B conversion cups)
My basic post was regarding your blatant rip off of the Spanish to euro cup design , something FLY produced long ago .

( note: from my research their has been no external 37-mm outboard B/B produced before the FLY euro to spanish B/B cup system )

You NEVER approached FLY and asked permission prior to producing your cups and after I made my post you come on here with a email from Keven Porter ?

( second note: Kevin give you permission to use the Spanish B/B something that had been available as a download from the FLY bikes site N/C for the past 4+ years since the inception of the Spanish B/B. Keven did not give you exclusive rights to the euro to Spanish B/B system, you should know to be more specific when asking for licensing rights )


Your post above is funny , Since Keven is one of their pro riders and handles no design work nor was the euro to spanish B/B cup system his original design.

This would be like me making bar end extensions , then later sending an email to Walker's little brother asking if it was OK , sure he's associated with Tonic the company but really carries no design duties nor has any real say in the dynamic of your companies product line .

The Spanish b/b system is a open source design for all to use and has been this way sice it's inception 4 years ago , but it would have been nice of you to give David the original design of the Spanish B/B system a heads up that you were going to rip off his design , never hurts to ask first .

See I can post email text too , below is text contain from a follow up email to David at FLY bikes after seeing the Spanglish rip off :

email from David at FLY bikes said:
From: david9at0flybikesbmx9dot0com
Subject: Re: FLY Euro to Spanish b/b conversion cups /Exclusive licensing of design ??
Date: February 6, 2007 1:51:36 AM PST
To: evil4bc(at)mac(dot)com

hey brad

you can go ahead and make them. no problem.

thanks for asking
david
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Hmmm Pretty straight forward ? asking for exclusive licensing of the euro to spanish cup .


Landon , YOU have never supported the Spanish cup design and your frames use the MID system , so my direct question to YOU is why not make a MID conversion cup which would have been an ORIGNAL idea and would have supported the standards you already use on your frames , without ripping of a existing design ???
 
Evil4bc

Evil4bc

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2005
1,080
1
Nor-Cal
Stoked said:
brad
why so defensive?
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Business strictly business , we approched FLY bikes quite some time ago about this design . I jsut dont like seeing my friends orignal design ripped of without permission .
Nothing personal strictly business
 
w00dy

w00dy

In heaven there is no beer
Jun 18, 2004
3,417
51
that's why we drink it here
L

Landon

Monkey
Oct 20, 2004
274
0
The Spanish b/b system is a open source design for all to
use..
Click to expand...
This would be like me making bar end extensions , then later sending an email to Walker's little brother asking if it was OK , sure he's associated with Tonic the company but really carries no design duties nor has any real say in the dynamic of your companies product line .
Click to expand...
Hmmm Pretty straight forward ? asking for exclusive licensing of the euro to spanish cup .
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Brad,

Frankly, I don't understand what you are trying to say. Do you think Fly invented both the press fit and external bearing BB? They might have been the first to use a 6904 bearing into BB shell as well as an external bearing BB cup. They certainly made the practice popular.

I suggest you apply a portion of your day to learning about a legal device called a "Utility Patent. " After you are comfortable with the basic theory and intent of a Utility Patent, apply it to this situation.

Consider that "Press-Fit" as well as External Bearing BB's had been available commercially since before Fly existed. Klein, Fat Chance, Magic Motorcycle and Sweet Parts....probably more.

If anyone holds patents on any of the above, it certainly isn't Fly.

As for e-mailing Fly; I don't even know why I bothered. Obviously it was a surprise to get a message from Kevin Porter, but he's the guy who wrote back. I certainly didn't write Kevin specifically.

More seriously: I doubt "David at Fly" would be stoked to have his e-mail address paraded around on some bike forum. I suggest you edit that.

Why aren't we using a Mid BB bearing? It's just too big. The diameter is too large to be able to use a Shimano 16 point BB tool, as well as being too wide for chain-line. I looked for other bearings, but the 6904 was a happy medium between strength/availablity/size. Besides, "Spanglish" is a far better name than "Midlish."

I really don't have any more time to go over this.

Thanks,

-Landon.
 
Evil4bc

Evil4bc

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2005
1,080
1
Nor-Cal
Landon
I'm not going to bother quoting you out of context as you have done to me above and in other previous threads , nor dodge the direct point such as you have clearly done .

My point was made , if you read my previous post before you will notice I stopped production and development of our version due to similarities to your design . More as a courtesy to you and Tonic more than anything else , personally I would have emailed FLY asking if the design was ok BEFORE you posted pic's on your blog.

Currently you are in No position to make suggestion's to me regarding intellectual property law or product design for that matter.
If you question this well you can come by our booth at SeaOtter and check out or new 07 line up !

I could have taken different action in this matter but though a nice general "heads up " would work . It honestly wasent ment as an attack even though it was perceived that way .

Then you post an email from Keven Porter trying to develop online street cred ?? :disgust1: nice :clapping:

Well as you said in the blog I guess Colt didnt work alone ... right ?
 
L

Landon

Monkey
Oct 20, 2004
274
0
Then you post an email from Keven Porter trying to develop online street cred ?? nice
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"Online street cred?" Does it even exist?


On a dare, I still can not understand your point. Fortunately there are millions and millions of things I also don't understand, so your point will be in good company. However, you seem especially concerned about this bottom bracket. If you want to discuss this further send me an e-mail.

Thanks,

Landon.
 
Evil4bc

Evil4bc

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2005
1,080
1
Nor-Cal
Landon said:
On a dare, I still can not understand your point. Fortunately there are millions and millions of things I also don't understand, so your point will be in good company. However, you seem especially concerned about this bottom bracket. If you want to discuss this further send me an e-mail.

Thanks,

Landon.
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It's kinda pointless to try to keep discussing this with you changing the subject every post ??

My points are clear you copied a original design that you did not have prior permission to do so with .

The only reason I had brought this up is my company had received permission and had been granted exclusive licensing rights to said design .
I mentioned this prior approval from David@ FLY the original designer only for you to take this opportunity to make light of my claims and change the subject to tell me I have talked to the wrong person only to post text stating you too had permission to the Spanish b/b even though your email to the general mailbox on the FLY site was obviously sent only after you realized my original claims of exclusive permission to this design were possibly correct .
 
Cru Jones

Cru Jones

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2006
3,025
2
Hell Track
opjones said:
Brad = Joe Rogan, Landon = Carlos.
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I don't know about that. But, that is some funny shiz. Man, both The Comedy Store and The Laugh Factory are like a block from my place. I need to start goin.... seems like there's always some drama goin on... Kramer the racist flippin out... Rogan callin out Mencia. Haha.
 
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