I am about to order some tires for the season and was thinking of getting a few hillbilly's to try. I was just wondering what people thought of them and how you think they will work in loose/dust.
Thanks
Thanks
Specialized Hillbilly Reviews?
- Thread starter CountryBoy
- Start date
For the conditions your describing I'd go would definitely go with the Butchers over the Hillbilly's if you wanted to stick with the Specialized tires. The Hillbilly's are more along the line of a refined Maxxis Swamp Thing and not really intended for the conditions you're describing.
I also plan on riding these this year. although I will not be using them for loose dust I will be using them on the damp east coast.
would love to hear someone's review of these!
would love to hear someone's review of these!
I have been riding with a rear Hillbilly in the Dry and it hooks up great. I would think they wouldn't be too bad in thick dust. They just need to penetrate the soil for good hookup. I would think they might be squirmy on hardpack though. I thought the WC pros were running Hillbillys wet and dry.
I raced them last season in very muddy conditions and they were impressive! Although they work best in semi muddy conditions where you may have some dry spots and some muddy spots. I would have ran the storms for the very muddy conditions if I would have had the choice.
I raced them last season in very muddy conditions and they were impressive! Although they work best in semi muddy conditions where you may have some dry spots and some muddy spots. I would have ran the storms for the very muddy conditions if I would have had the choice.
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Metal Dude how are they wearing? My friend who rips is liking them more than DHF's but I'm yet to be converted. But I am considering them for a rear tire. 2.35 and dual ply sounds like a perfect complement to 2.5 DHF's on the front. But 42a is pretty soft for a rear tire.
Would these be race only tires?
Would these be race only tires?
I have been riding hillbillys non stop for almost 6 months. I love them. Loose over hardpack they will slide a bit, but not terribly. In anything else, they are epic. They are a bit squirmy on rock faces, but not a huge deal when you get used to it.
+1 on this, but i found they didn't roll super fast. Compared to my buddies on DHFs.
Cut them. They have sipes for ramping the knobs for a reason...
I've not seen a person yet in this area that didn't have an insider hook up running them. In the South, they are borderline perfect in a lot of conditions because of the greasy conditions mixed with bone dry that we experience.
But I've not seen the average joe DH'er sport them.
But I've not seen the average joe DH'er sport them.
Oh you ****ing genius.Cut them. They have sipes for ramping the knobs for a reason...
Edit: Any tips - all of them, or just the centers?
That's probably because they are $75 a pop and you can't order them from *insert favorite online retailer*.
I'd love to try them, but I'm not going to pay that.
So we've got to cut the pre-cut spikes?Cut them. They have sipes for ramping the knobs for a reason...
The pros live in a different world...free new tires in abundance, cut whatever you feel like, what the hey, try something new. Must be nice!
The Hillbillys are designed to be cut. They have a sipe running diagonally up the knobs to make it easy. Jacy wasn't ****in' around.So we've got to cut the pre-cut spikes?
The pros live in a different world...free new tires in abundance, cut whatever you feel like, what the hey, try something new. Must be nice!
They are still very hard to find, which is why you don't see many people running them. They are pretty much perfect in 85% (random % here) of conditions tho.
I find it hilarious that people will spend $200 on a ti spring to save 150g, but won't spend $150 on tires, which will make much more of a difference to your riding.
I've been running them on fresh, soft tracks and they're perfect. I also use it as a rear tire in the mud with a storm on the front. If it dries and hardens up a lot I switch to Butchers or DHF's. I haven't tried them in powdery dust...I'm sure they'd work fine but you'd tear them up quick in the dry. They've been fine in the rocks too, but on wet, slick, or smooth rocks I'd use something else. The specialized clutch and butcher are great all around tires fyi.
I think the hillbilly is best suited for soft, loamy tracks with rocks, roots, and off camber. Great tire for what I'm doing on the tracks I build.
I think the hillbilly is best suited for soft, loamy tracks with rocks, roots, and off camber. Great tire for what I'm doing on the tracks I build.
Couldn't be said better. Yeah, nobody is looking to pay more than they have to for tires, but as you say, it is of huge importance to the overall performance.
is that was a "sipe" is for?The Hillbillys are designed to be cut. They have a sipe running diagonally up the knobs to make it easy. Jacy wasn't ****in' around.
They are used to increase traction usually. They allow the knobs to bend in different directions and react to the terrain.
They are also used to help guide cuts on racing tires for moto and bicycles.
I thought the people with the $200 ti spring also had the $150 tires
I've been riding a butcher up front and the hillybilly in the back from Northstar to Santa Cruz and they do well everywhere... Like Transcend said, they will get a little squirmy on rocks, but they stick like glue everywhere else.
ROFL
Quote of the month...
^ ^ Better than the Hillbilly ridin' you! badompomp
One Awesome name for a tire, by the way... "The Hillbilly"... nice.
One Awesome name for a tire, by the way... "The Hillbilly"... nice.
Transcend, while I totally agree that tires have a much greater potential to increase performance, Ti springs do not wear out in less than a month of racing.
I go through 8-10 DH tires a season, I could probably use this spring obtanium gave me for 5 years.
I go through 8-10 DH tires a season, I could probably use this spring obtanium gave me for 5 years.
winner^
Yep ^^
By the way, those are not sipes in the hillbilly. Those are just diagonal cut lines on the sides of the lugs. Sipes have depth and are located on the traction surface of the knob. Like the Butcher.
By the way, those are not sipes in the hillbilly. Those are just diagonal cut lines on the sides of the lugs. Sipes have depth and are located on the traction surface of the knob. Like the Butcher.
A few of these tire manufacturers need to remember:
Car tire, $100 / 30 lbs of raw materials = $3.33 / pound
DH tire, $75 / 3 lbs of raw materials = $25 / pound
Of course there are differences in volumes produced, but the tire manufacturing process is not really impacted by mass production volumes. Once you've mixed the minimum quantities of your compounds, it costs the same per tire to make 100 tires as it does to make 10,000 tires.
Car tire, $100 / 30 lbs of raw materials = $3.33 / pound
DH tire, $75 / 3 lbs of raw materials = $25 / pound
Of course there are differences in volumes produced, but the tire manufacturing process is not really impacted by mass production volumes. Once you've mixed the minimum quantities of your compounds, it costs the same per tire to make 100 tires as it does to make 10,000 tires.
Hey Aaron, not to disagree that DH tires cost a lot, but I think that comparison is a little off.
A $100 car tire is most likely an entry level tire in a commodity market. Where as a $75 DH tire is a performance product in a niche market. There are plenty of $13 dollar bike tires and $300+ car tires.
Motocross tires might be a better comparison... which still might make bike tires look expensive, but they don't last too much longer.
And don't look at Moto GP tire prices...
Otherwise, Fraser's covered things pretty well here.
disclaimer: I work for "S" in the tire department.
A $100 car tire is most likely an entry level tire in a commodity market. Where as a $75 DH tire is a performance product in a niche market. There are plenty of $13 dollar bike tires and $300+ car tires.
Motocross tires might be a better comparison... which still might make bike tires look expensive, but they don't last too much longer.
And don't look at Moto GP tire prices...
Otherwise, Fraser's covered things pretty well here.
disclaimer: I work for "S" in the tire department.
i'll be interested to see if these tires catch on. are they not a cut mud spike? I'm a bit confused.
production volume does play a difference in final MSRP. the difference is with the tooling cost; when you have higher volume production, tooling cost gets spread over more units, which allows a lower price per unit. and tooling is EXPENSIVE, supposedly VERY expensive for tires.
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Thanks for your comments, and forthrightness regarding your employer. By the way, I also work for a tire company. I'm a development engineer for Kumho.Hey Aaron, not to disagree that DH tires cost a lot, but I think that comparison is a little off.
A $100 car tire is most likely an entry level tire in a commodity market. Where as a $75 DH tire is a performance product in a niche market. There are plenty of $13 dollar bike tires and $300+ car tires.
Motocross tires might be a better comparison... which still might make bike tires look expensive, but they don't last too much longer.
And don't look at Moto GP tire prices...
Otherwise, Fraser's covered things pretty well here.
disclaimer: I work for "S" in the tire department.
So I know that the raw materials and labor are the main sources of cost in tires. The manufacturing cost of a $300 UHP tires is not that much different than a $100 budget tire of the same size. But tire companies have to pay their molds costs, overheads and R+D costs. The profit margin on $100 tires is not that much compared to most mass produced products, so they cover that with their $300 tires.
How does this related to bicycle tires? Well, the technology in a bicycle tire is no more high tech than what's in a car tire. Any tire compounder could mix up a "slow rebound" compound using mostly conventional polymers and fillers with no problem and no significant extra cost. The materials in bike tires are not particularly high tech either...just run of the mill polyesters and nylons. So you've got basically the same raw materials, but wildly different prices out the door.
If you consider the similarities between car tires and bike tires, you really can't justify the prices they are charging. The costs are simply there because the market will pay those prices and bike companies know that lowering costs isn't going to increase volume significantly.
Anyway, that's my take on it. I will not buy a $75 bike tire that's going to wear out in half a season. That kind of price is so high that it will drive me to find a friend who has a team hook up and get me the tire for much less, which only perpetuates the problem.
Anyway, I bought some Kenda BBGs. $45/each. I'm willing to pay that.
Molds are not really that expensive. $30,000 for a car tire mold in the far east. So I'm thinking maybe $10,000 for a bike tire mold, if that.
Of course if you're only going to sell 1,000 tires a year in a small niche market, even that is a significant amount. But in the grand scheme of things for far east tire factories, that is not expensive.
Unfortunately it is too expensive for me to start making my own downhill tires.
I remember reading an article about bike tires a while back, and one thing that was touched on was how much the molds cost, especially for knobby tires (all the detail machining work for the knobs/treads). Don't remember the exact number, but it was definitely north of 10g's.Molds are not really that expensive. $30,000 for a car tire mold in the far east. So I'm thinking maybe $10,000 for a bike tire mold, if that.
Of course if you're only going to sell 1,000 tires a year in a small niche market, even that is a significant amount. But in the grand scheme of things for far east tire factories, that is not expensive.
Unfortunately it is too expensive for me to start making my own downhill tires.
Not going to argue with that analysis (and enjoying the discussion as always)...
Yup. DH (and other niche) tires are our UHP tires to some degree. They are a performance product, yet they make up such a small part of the bicycle market that the costs have no way of competing with the bread and butter tires in the industry.
And that's the other part of it. Except for closeout deals and low demand tires, you usually see prices change consistently across multiple brands.
Of course that's the hardest part to anticipate: how much are people really prepared to pay? My roommate pays $350 for a race weekend's worth of street bike tires (which I think is fcking nuts), but the next guy over will be riding down some super loose hill on practically bald tires cause he isn't ready to pay for new ones yet...Anyway, that's my take on it. I will not buy a $75 bike tire that's going to wear out in half a season. That kind of price is so high that it will drive me to find a friend who has a team hook up and get me the tire for much less, which only perpetuates the problem.
Anyway, I bought some Kenda BBGs. $45/each. I'm willing to pay that.
Well, I wouldn't believe everything you read.
If you were to walk into a machine shop and ask them to make a bike tire mold, yeah, it would be north of 10gs.
But there are companies that do nothing but churn out tire molds all day, it's their business and they do it well. Bike tire molds are simple compared to car tire molds which use formed metal inserts for sipes, segmented sectioning, and much more raw material. I quoted 10g as a conservative figure...I'm guessing your main players get molds for well south of 10g. But this is just my educated guess.
Thanks for your honesty, +rep.
Based on my molding experience with Chinese vendors, I have a hard time believing that a P20 steel tool of that size will be remotely in the neighborhood of $10K considering all the EDM'ing that is used in the process.Molds are not really that expensive. $30,000 for a car tire mold in the far east. So I'm thinking maybe $10,000 for a bike tire mold, if that.
Of course if you're only going to sell 1,000 tires a year in a small niche market, even that is a significant amount. But in the grand scheme of things for far east tire factories, that is not expensive.
Unfortunately it is too expensive for me to start making my own downhill tires.
But seriously, if you have vendors oversees that that work on that economy of scale could you PM them to me. It's always good to have alternatives.
Great work going on in big S tyre department but please have a word with your UK distribution arm who didn't pick up the butcher tyre for import over here this year. I want to buy a pair but no joy and obviously no USA dealer will ship to international customer as it against specialized policy.
Thx, and keep up the great work!
I just became your stalker
2bliss sx butcher with a 60d compound!!!!!!
Come on! Gimme gimme gimee!!!
i'll take a butcher control 2bliss 2.3 50a/45a. thanks.I just became your stalker
2bliss sx butcher with a 60d compound!!!!!!
Come on! Gimme gimme gimee!!!
Too close to what they already make.
You lack vision!!
(I'm thinking trailbike here, I don't like gooey rubber on bikes I climb on for hours)
Hey for what it's worth, some of this stuff diluted....
http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=62
Can usually make just about any tire tubeless.