all this talk about molds makes me wonder why the hell the unchanged minion, designed in like 2000, still is the most expensive tire on the market...
oh yeah, demand.
oh yeah, demand.
Specialized Hillbilly Reviews?
- Thread starter CountryBoy
- Start date
Because they haven't had significant competition in the market.
It is only this season that i am seeing customers walk in and look for DH tires from companies other than Maxxis - and mostly they are doing just that - looking.
While we're on the subject of disclaimers - i work for a big bike shop - not that anyone should care.
I wish i had a cool job like Gridds or the other guys in this thread...
yah, on the other hand, those 150g weight savings will last for the next 5 years and transfer bike to bike, where the hill billys might last for 6 months of riding, and provide marginal benefit over a set of tires that somebody might be able to find for 50 or 75 dollars less.
I don't, I do run nice tires on my bike (3c minion DHF, highrollers, clutch DH), but then again, I get tires at shop cost and I'm not looking at spending 75-90 bucks a pop at full retail (and I suspect you get big deals on them too).
Edit: also, most people who spend 200 on a ti spring are still buying nice tires too.
yea but i can wish. i've messed around with a ton of latex solutions and they work well a lot of the time but the 2bliss bead works so well on so many tubeless and ust rims.
i was thinking trailbike as well but my trails don't have long climbs so the 50a/45a works awesome for me.
That's what I was afraid of.
You'll get what we give you when we're ready to give it to you.2bliss sx butcher with a 60d compound!!!!!!
Come on! Gimme gimme gimee!!!
Ooooohhh mmmaxxxxxxiissssssssss!!!
Yooohoooooo!
Yooohoooooo!
Hey now, let's not do anything we'll regret... Your request has been duly noted (no webform needed).
Haha.....sweet.
Just frustrates me when someone comes out with a good tread design and only builds a casing for one application. Correct me if I'm wrong but once you have the mold for a given size, and the compounds already used in other tires, the majority of the work is done right? (not counting the board meetings trying to convince a sales department that people will buy them)
Just frustrates me when someone comes out with a good tread design and only builds a casing for one application. Correct me if I'm wrong but once you have the mold for a given size, and the compounds already used in other tires, the majority of the work is done right? (not counting the board meetings trying to convince a sales department that people will buy them)
Without getting into specifics, that's not always true. Different beads can require different molds and treads don't always translate across multiple constructions.
Well the clutch tread made it into the trail bike tires, so I'm keeping a hopeful eye out for the same options for the butcher pattern.
Beat maxxis to the 2.35 exo minion and I think you guys could make some money.
And tell your peeps thanks for starting to take tires seriously again over the last few years.
Beat maxxis to the 2.35 exo minion and I think you guys could make some money.
And tell your peeps thanks for starting to take tires seriously again over the last few years.
Gladly.
how much life have you guys got out of the butchers and hillbillys compared to say a minion 3c?
This, right here, is what direct customer-interaction in the post web2.0 era is all about. One day, they will write textbooks referencing the "Landcruiser method", as it will come to be known.You'll get what we give you when we're ready to give it to you.
Landcruiser: I'd love to try the Big S downhill tires, but I sure do like the fact that the UST Maxxis tires are super robust for tubeless use. How about some 2Bliss DH tires from the Big S? That would be enough to get me to buy a set of Butchers.
If you're taking notes, I'll tell you what every grassroots and pro rider for Michelin loved and clung onto desperately. Steve gave us all a pair each of a Comp 24 in 2.2" casing with a medium density sidewall for our trail bikes.
It was literally the Comp 24 DH in pattern, tread and compound...but that medium density casing for trail use.
Every person to a man that ever ran that tire rode it til it was bald and begged Steve to get the Frenchies to put it in production.
Oh, and tell Wyatt I've been hinting for years that I need some tires...but he's too busy with all the other beggers to hear me.
What language is that? It sounds vaguely English...
I hope both front and rear...I think I just bought two.
Still no word on how they wear? Give us the low down guys. This is probably this tire's weakest aspect.
Want to try them on the rear. Still hard to trust anything but a DHF on the front.
Want to try them on the rear. Still hard to trust anything but a DHF on the front.
Yeah, still ridiculously dumb.
The harder the ground the quicker they wear. I just blew through a rear in 2 days of riding. The tracks were steep and had a lot of breaking. The side knobs are still fine but the centers are toast.
For me, this is a specialty tire, not my every day bread and butter tire.
I don't know if I can officially endorse it, but I know of a least one guy in house that runs our production DH tires tubeless on 823's with no complaints...
We don't have any front or rear specific tires.
I ran the exact same setup this last weekend w/Hillbillys and some stans.. no complaints, went on super-easy w/just a blast of from a CO2 cartridge.
I'm sure running the standard tires tubeless works fine...most of the time. But there's a reason it isn't officially endorsed: because they aren't designed to be used that way and hence have no guarantees of actually working.
The interesting thing here is that you are using Maxxis as a model for how regular tires are not up to the the task.
If you dig a little more, you will see lots of evidence and experience that says the tubeless versions of Maxxis DH tires are the weaker of the two (the weight difference and sidewall feel will also corroborate this)... and that better reliability, durability, and ease of set-up is had with normal Maxxis tires run w/o tubes.
I thought this was common knowledge? Most people I know that run Tubeless Maxxis DH tires run the regular tires and avoid the USTs.
My reference was to the fact that the Comp 24 prototype used the exact same rubber compound in the tread as Michelin's DH tires. I think it's something along the lines of a 45 as opposed to a 50 or 60 compound. Any tire makers put their DH rubber on their trail tires?
the UST maxxis was designed to work with a UST rim with no sealant.
it was never designed to work on a ghetto setup with sealant.
the bead on the standard maxxis dh tires work a million times better than the UST tires on ghetto setups, and if you are using sealant in a UST rim, they work at least as well as the UST tire.
bazically, if you are using sealant, there is no reason to get the UST version from maxxis.
what about with a Stans rim? I just replaced my rims on my trail bike, and so I have a couple of Flows built up sitting around. If I wanted to try tubeless, would it just be a case of throwing some Stans in my existing Minions and slap'em on?
I run butchers and hillbillys tubeless on Stans ZTR Flow rims with sealant, also no problems.
flows are not UST rims. they are converted with tape/rimstrips just like any other ghetto tubeless setup.
I realize that. I've been running them that way for three years. What I want to know is if I can just throw regular Maxxis tires on there, with sealant, and safely use them for DH duty.
edited to add: I wouldn't equate them to a ghetto setup. the sidewalls have a specific shape to lock onto UST tire beads. A ghetto setup essentially has a layer of inner tube in between the rim and the tire bead, and uses a liquid latex sealant to seal the tire.
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That statement should come with a disclaimer. Where you ride can strip a tire of it's dignity in less than a day.
I ran the Stans Flow wheels with some Butcher SX tires (tubeless) at Sea Otter. (I have been running tubeless downhill for years with Maxxis UST on Mavic UST). I thought it would be a nice, light setup for the mellow DH course. On one of the practice runs I had quite a moment when this setup failed me. Landing a jump into some ruts, the front tire blew straight off the rim. I heard a pop, looked down, the tire was instantly flopping around my handlebars. The rim dug into the ground, and I went OTB, giving my Alpinestars neck brace quite the test. I went over to the Specialized tent for some insight on this failure. They said the tires aren't certified UST - that's a risk I take running the tires tubeless. I also talked to Mavic who ,of course had a slightly biased response, saying the Stans aren't certified tubeless. I believe Mavic helped create the certification. Anyway, in the interest of safety/reliability I thought I would share this info.
Cool article from Bikerumor on Specialized R & D. http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/05/03/specialized-brings-finite-element-analysis-fea-to-mountain-bike-tire-design/
Keep in mind...tires that "look" better probably sell more than ones that work better.
Hopefully in this instance, the science of tire design wins out.
Keep in mind...tires that "look" better probably sell more than ones that work better.
Hopefully in this instance, the science of tire design wins out.
I suppose that looks cool to non-engineers, but that FEA is so detached from anything remotely real that it's a waste of megabytes.Cool article from Bikerumor on Specialized R & D. http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/05/03/specialized-brings-finite-element-analysis-fea-to-mountain-bike-tire-design/
Keep in mind...tires that "look" better probably sell more than ones that work better.
Hopefully in this instance, the science of tire design wins out.
There is a whole study of tire to deformable-surface interaction, it's called Terramechanics. The Army has been studying this for a century in the effort to maximize mobility of our vehicles/troops in harms way.
That aside, I would be conducting controlled experiments of existing tires by statically loading at various loads and inflation pressures on a pressure mat using various lean angles and studying block deformation and footprint contact pressure. Combine that with subjective feedback from riders and known competitor products and you'd be getting somewhere...
I wouldn't read too much into that marketing slide. It's not indicative of how we really design tires.
Just know that that tire has received nothing but positive feedback from the many people who've test ridden it.
Just know that that tire has received nothing but positive feedback from the many people who've test ridden it.
Will those ground control replace the Eskar's? I like my Eskar's, but would like something with a little more support for "intermediate" leaning...