Quantcast

Stems: Traditional or Direct Mount (aka Integrated)?

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by oly, Apr 8, 2005.

?

What system do you prefer?

  1. Traditional stems.

    24 vote(s)
    19.0%
  2. Direct Mount/Integrated stems.

    102 vote(s)
    81.0%
  1. oly

    oly skin cooker for the hive

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Messages:
    5,121
    Location:
    Witness relocation housing
    I dont usually post polls but something I'm working on got me thinking. I was curious the # of people that prefer one stem system over the other, and why.

    This isnt brand specific at all, but if you want to add what DM setup you had and what you liked/disliked about it specifically, go ahead.

    Ive used both setups and like the DM setup for DH.
    -d
     
    #1 -   Apr 8, 2005

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. ska todd

    ska todd Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    1,777
    Location:
    Lawnguyland, New F'in Yawk
    direct mount - lower bar height & doesn't twist when you stack it.

    -ska todd
     
    #2 -   Apr 8, 2005
  3. DHS

    DHS Friendly Neighborhood Pool Boy

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    5,101
    Location:
    Sand, CA
    'cept on a dorado. i've had to fix that soo many times for people. the legs twist.
    i definitely still prefer direct mount though. just not that fork.
    :)
     
    #3 -   Apr 8, 2005
  4. Threepointtwo

    Threepointtwo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    633
    Location:
    SLC, UT
    I used to have the same problem on the Dorado until I broke out the torque wrench and tightened the clamp bolts to spec. I was shocked how tight they were supposed to be for such tiny bolts. I had no problems after that. I don't have any experience with the new one yet. The crowns and bolts are much beefier.
     
    #4 -   Apr 8, 2005
  5. Salami

    Salami Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    3 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2003
    Messages:
    1,619
    Location:
    Waxhaw, NC
    I prefer the direct mount stem.

    I used the one that came with my 03 Super T. I didn't like two things. I didn't like that it was heavier than the Thomson it replaced. I also didn't like way the stem worked in the shorter 55mm position. The edges of the stem hung off the crown and in my opinion really looked like ****. The lower front end height, stiffness, and the bars not twisting out weighed the two negatives though.

    I have an 05 Boxxer now and I will be running a traditional Thomson until until the E-13 or Thomson direct mount comes out.

    Are you thinking off using the Boxxer stem mounting for your Fox top crown? If it would work it might be a good idea since there seems there is going to be a few good companies making stems for the bolt pattern. Here are the specs if you haven't seen them: http://www.sram.com/_media/pdf/rockshox/manufacturers/UpperCrownStemBoltPatter01_04.pdf
     
    #5 -   Apr 8, 2005
  6. oly

    oly skin cooker for the hive

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Messages:
    5,121
    Location:
    Witness relocation housing
    Yes. thats the plan. I have a CROMAG DM stem on order. The crown is in the works. No plans of yet to make anything to sell.


    here is a picture of my progress. Machined from foam at the moment.
     

    Attached Files:

    #6 -   Apr 8, 2005
  7. buildyourown

    buildyourown Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    4,837
    Location:
    South Seattle
    Only hack machinists practice with foam. Real programers push the green button and go do some "paper work" ;) I left work an hour ago and my machine is still running (I hope)

    I prefer a traditional stem.
    Ease of adjustment. I like longer than average stems so the direct mounts are often too short.
    I'd rather have my stem twist when I stack it than have my fork break. In a really hard crash, somethings got to give. I'd rather it not be expensive.

    People claim improved steerering precision. I would be interested to try a direct mount on my bike.
     
    #7 -   Apr 8, 2005
  8. oly

    oly skin cooker for the hive

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Messages:
    5,121
    Location:
    Witness relocation housing
    I still owe you that 2d drawing. Ive been busy watching people complain in the PNW forum.....
     
    #8 -   Apr 8, 2005
  9. Repack

    Repack Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,894
    Location:
    Boston Area
    Direct = low and stiff.
    Marz and Man are the biggest two doing it and have the same basic patter. A few set of holes to adjust stem length.
     
    #9 -   Apr 8, 2005
  10. WhiteRavenKS

    WhiteRavenKS Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    1,270
    Location:
    neither here nor there
    direct is great. i did twist the mount area of my dorado in a spill last summer which sucked. my bars were fine, just twisted so one end was up 3 inches higher than the other. (expensive!)

    but luckily i could just hack it off and run a regular stem.
     
  11. ioscope

    ioscope Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,004
    Location:
    Vashon, WA
    I think direct is cleaner/lower
    However... My DM stem arms tend to come off the backside of my shiver crown. Oh Well.

    But the coolest stems are the ones with hex heads. I got me a 4-bolt like that on my DJ
     
  12. dexter

    dexter Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 29
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2001
    Messages:
    2,942
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    kevin we all know you dont ride dh bikes just your silly euro trash little bike. see ya in a month fool. the dna is so f'n rad
     
  13. WhiteRavenKS

    WhiteRavenKS Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    1,270
    Location:
    neither here nor there

    i act like i ride a dh bike 6 times a year...

    bring the dna and your bag of tricks. we need to shoot... still and video. baller style.
     
  14. seismic

    seismic Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    3,254
    Location:
    South East Asia
    I use a direct mount stem on my MTN-8 and it is super nice. Super short and very stiff and "direct" steering.
     
  15. me89

    me89 Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    Messages:
    839
    Location:
    asheville
    i would say dm just cause of the inexpensivness of the stem and its super stiff. compaired to a stem that cost the same and is extremely flexy and the steering isnt as precise. you have to pay twice the cost of a dm stem to get a good stiff traditional stem. although fork leg twist was enough to keep me away from the dm stem so i just opted to pay 70 bucks for a diablos stem and be done with it. supper stiff, got a longer stem (i like them to buildyourown), and damit it just looks kooler.

    peace out.
     
  16. surfinguru

    surfinguru Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 0
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,269
    Location:
    Santa Cruz (the land of a thousand worthless tree
    It was a bit of an adjustment going from a 75mm Holzfeller down to the 47mm Go-Ride "Switch" set up but, so far, I'm liking it.
     
  17. Eurotrash

    Eurotrash Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Messages:
    362
    I'd vote direct mount if I was a sponsored rider who doesn't care about changing my fork if I have a big crash but I'm not and the last time I checked boxxer lowers were EXPENSIVE, so I'll stick with the traditionnal stem and the 5mm allen key to put it back straight (which doesn't happen that often anyway)
    Chears
     
  18. ChrisRobin

    ChrisRobin Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 56
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2002
    Messages:
    2,995
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I've always used a traditional stem because, well, my fork never had the option for an integrated stem. I find the traditional stems look better...like Thompson, Easton, FSA...etc. The Marz integrated stems are ugly. Usually the nice looking integrated stems are the aftermarket ones.

    By the way, I like all my stuff to be bolt on...having something twist on you when you crash instead of it bending or breaking is a good argument.
     
  19. bigbirdie

    bigbirdie Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    CT
    since we are on the subject of int. stems. are there ones out on the market for 888's? besides the oem ones from marzocchi.
     
  20. ChrisRobin

    ChrisRobin Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 56
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2002
    Messages:
    2,995
    Location:
    Vancouver
    The Go-ride one
     
  21. Kntr

    Kntr Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 20
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2003
    Messages:
    7,536
    Location:
    Montana
    The GO-Ride one is called the Switch and it is the stem and crown all in one piece.
     
  22. bigbirdie

    bigbirdie Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    CT
    I have the mazocchi flat top crown and bolt on stem. but I don't like the length. I want something a little shorter....any suggestions? besides going to a traditional stem.
     
  23. ChrisRobin

    ChrisRobin Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 56
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2002
    Messages:
    2,995
    Location:
    Vancouver

    That's what I meant, just too lazy to type it.
     
  24. BadFastard

    BadFastard Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    121
    Location:
    Belgium
    i've direct on my dorado, and use it, but stem style is safer in a crash: let it spin! at least the legs aren't twisted.
    I'm even thinking about putting a stem on it. Sure it's not as clean, stiff, cheap, light or whatever, I think it's better for the stem to twist than the fork legs.
     
  25. S.K.C.

    S.K.C. Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 10
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Messages:
    4,097
    Location:
    Pa. / North Jersey
    ...I prefer the Traditional Stem for one main reason: It twists.

    Here's my thinking - If I wash out the front end and get pitched over the bars, if those bars have some give to them, they won't be as likely to break a rib or rupture an organ, as say a direct mount stem would be. This actually happened to me last year, and the bars twisted, instead of driving themselves into me. Kinda like an un-intentional saftey feature.

    This was with: Pro-Taper bars, Thompson 50 stem, and Romic top crown, on a Boxxer.
     
  26. signal-link

    signal-link Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    8
    Fox 40 Boxxer Direct Mount.

     
  27. PatBranch

    PatBranch Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    8 / 7
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Messages:
    10,461
    Location:
    wine country
    I like my marzocchi direct mount stem on my Super-T. I haven't had any issues with it.

    Wouldn't your bars have to hit something really hard for a traditional stem to twist on the steerer, if it's tight enough? At that point, you probably wouldn't feel too good yourself...
     
  28. ATOMICFIREBALL

    ATOMICFIREBALL DISARMED IN A BATTLE OF WITS

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    May 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,354
    Location:
    Tennessee
    I had a Romic integrated stem & crown in the past last year on my Boxxer. But,now i 'll use my Thomson stem with my regular Boxxer crown & see the difference- if any !
     
  29. jasons

    jasons Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Denver CO
  30. DirtyMike

    DirtyMike Turbo Fluffer

    Rep/Likes:
    60 / 763
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,155
    Location:
    My own world inside my head
    If I had a DC fork, I would use an Integrated stem, But as ti stand I run a SC fork so I just use my RF Diabolous
     
  31. sriracha

    sriracha Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    496
    Location:
    805
    i like direct mount...but, it has to clamp on to the steertube as well as the crown. on the old super-t's, it didn't clamp to the steertube and the headset would loosen.

    since the 888 DM stem clamps to the steertube, it stay's put.

    there's just not enough clamping force on the upper crown, with one bolt at the steertube...
     
  32. - seb

    - seb Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Messages:
    2,924
    Location:
    UK
    What are my options for direct mount with a boxxer? I know of e13 Ali and sunline (http://www.sixsixone.com/Catalog_Su...&product=25b5fba5-bc80-4fdf-9044-42c7073dc44c)

    The sunline is winning for me as it's 30g lighter.

    Still seems pretty heavy though, my Hope stem is only 144g.

    Also, are there any aftermarket crowns for my boxxer (06 team, not that I think it makes any difference). Or all-in-one crown/stem? Like the one goldtech used to make.
     
  33. - seb

    - seb Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Messages:
    2,924
    Location:
    UK
  34. miuan

    miuan Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2007
    Messages:
    396
    Location:
    Bratislava, Slovakia
    Anyone used the sunline boxxer stem with carbon bars? Is it okay? The edges look quite sharp to me, though they're machined out at 45 degrees.
     
  35. godzilla

    godzilla Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2005
    Messages:
    78
    Does anyone actually know of issues being created by a direct mount stem during / after a crash?


    I recently (2 nights ago) switched from a traditional type stem to a direct mount after holding out over the crash issue. I understand the thinking behind wanting stuff to twist rather than break, but the other side of it is that I've never heard of anyone who has experienced problems because they were running a direct mount.
     
  36. Pow pow

    Pow pow Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    Scotland
    I twisted my Boxxer lowers and did in a front wheel last year while using a birect mount stem, it was in a high speed crash at Fort William, I came off a jump all wrong and landed with all my weight on the bars, the wheel was turned to the right and I landed on the right had side of the bars thus putting a lot of force through the forks and wheel. This I admit is an unlikely situation to find yourself in but it did happen to me and it cost me a fair bit to replace the stuff. (new fork lowers, new rim and spokes)
     
  37. SPDR

    SPDR Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    Engerland
    Do they quote the weight without bolts? Wouldn't blame them for that - I bet most others do it too.

    Those who have bent things on their forks - do they think that the direct mount caused MORE damage to the forks or was it just one of those crashes where stuff breaks? After all, people have broken forks while using traditional stems before . . .

    Shorter/stiffer/lower/lighter/better looking - I'll have one next time I get a dual crown fork.
     
  38. potta

    potta Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    9
    Direct mount for. Fit it forget it.
     
  39. demo 9

    demo 9 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    9 / 45
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    5,911
    Location:
    north jersey
    i voted direct because ur wheel is always straight
     
  40. - seb

    - seb Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Messages:
    2,924
    Location:
    UK
    Why would you not blame them for that? Can you run the stem WITHOUT the bolts? No, so what's the point? If they insist on showing that to scam people into thinking it's lighter than it really is, they should at least have some small print saying what the weight includes 8-)